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Unfair advantage of Deaths and Drones

WAJsal

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Despite obstacles to effective investigation on the ground ,The bureau of investigation Journalism[an independent not-for-profit-organisation established in UK]recorded the identites of 701 of those killed in drone strikes in Pakistan.
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Drones: choosing between droning on and understanding
By Ejaz Haider

One of the basic requirements of fighting wars and the many battles that make up a war is to gain asymmetric advantage over the enemy.

Put in English, if you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn’t plan well.

Winning is about unfair advantage at four levels – political, strategic, theatre, and tactical – of any conflict.

When David faced Goliath, a straight contest would have got David killed. His asymmetric advantage lay in deception, speed and surprise.

That’s where the slingshot came in, not only neutralising Goliath’s advantage but felling him. The history of warfare is the story of unfair advantage.

Today’s wars and its battlefields are complex and non-linear, but the basic principles remain unchanged. Non-state actors have introduced the suicide bomber, raising the cost for the state by upending the basic principle of security, i.e., self-preservation.
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States, on their part, have learned that superior force in this contest with elusive enemies is not much use.

Corollary: develop and utilise technologies that are accurate, discriminatory and, more crucially, can be embedded in a C4I2 (command, control, communications, computing, intelligence and information) process for greater precision.

The objective: preempt the enemy and strike deftly.

This is where drones, remotely-piloted vehicles, come in. They have become the most controversial platform over the last decade, flying and striking stealthily and, for the most part, cleanly and precisely.

The debate has two extreme ends: the absolutists who oppose their use unconditionally and the proponents who advocate their enhanced use equally unconditionally. The facts of drones use, as always, lie somewhere between these extremes.

The issue – or as some would like to term it, problem – has to be debated at three levels: technology, operations and law. Let’s consider them in that order.

First, drones aren’t just used to kill people. The technology has multiple uses, most of them in fact benign. While Amazon’s Octocopter package delivery project may still be in the future, drones are already being used in agriculture, search and rescue, 3-D mapping, geological surveys et cetera.

Corollary: the technology is here to stay. In 2005, around 40 countries possessed drones of varying capabilities. By 2012, this number had gone up to 75. It includes Pakistan.

Corollary 2: an idea cannot be dis-invented, though it can be controlled. We face the same problem with nuclear, chemical and biological substances.

Corollary 3: control, legal and normative, always succeeds technology. It cannot precede it. That’s an historical fact. Just because some of us don’t like drones is unlikely to reverse the obvious logic of this truism.

The next level is operations and by operations we mean their military-intelligence role, since that’s the only use that seems to make news.

In their military role, armed drones are used for long-duration surveillance, close air support, force protection strikes and ground attack. Funnily, while the use of drones in all these roles is bitterly criticised, all of these functions were performed by conventional aerial platforms which were, and remain, far less accurate and precise than the drones.

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Drones can be used for missions round the clock, and their use has several advantages which make them extremely attractive to intelligence operators as well as field commanders.

The cost per flight hour is very low compared to fighter aircraft.

Cost estimates put out by the US Air Force show that the cost per flight hour for an F-15E Strike Eagle is USD 36,343, USD 22,514 for an F-16C Viper and USD 17,716 for an A-10C. Compared with this, the cost per flight hour of Predators and Reapers is USD 3,679 and USD 4,762, respectively.

Drones also have greater loiter time for ground intelligence.

A Reaper can stay up in the air for 14 hours. They are more precise and accurate. Pilots are not exposed to danger through air-to-air and ground-to-air attacks. The platform saves ground troops from entering hostile environments and drones can hit targets in inaccessible areas, making using ground troops irrelevant. That itself is a very tempting factor at various levels: no attack and extrication plans, no logistics headaches and no medevac problems.

Additionally, the inability of the enemy to kill the drones, the stealth with which they can strike multiple times instils fear in an elusive enemy, allows discriminate strikes against targets that are tightly coupled with the population, restricts the enemy’s freedom of movement and action, denies him assembly, makes electronic communications difficult, sows distrust among enemy cadres and degrades leadership, personnel and material through personality and signature strikes.

In short, drones are a dream aerial platform for military commanders fighting elusive enemies in areas where the zones of war and peace cannot be separated.

So, why is their use so controversial?

Part of the answer lies in the fact that the platform has been used very effectively in wars that are looked upon as imperial in nature. The issue at that level has more to do with the legitimacy of America’s war on terror and its narrative than the use of drones per se. However, the newness of the platform and its stealth make it menacing and sinister in an Orwellian way. This description is not entirely wrong but it misses the point that intelligence agencies are now using other technologies (and hacking techniques) that are no less Orwellian.

As for the much-hyped ‘collateral damage’ allegation, while drones can and have killed people other than terrorists, the fact is that all other known aerial and ground weapon systems and platforms are far less accurate than the weapons on the Predator and its advanced cousin, the Reaper.

Finally, we have the legal level. It’s also the most troublesome.
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The problems of law relate to consent, self-defence, imminence of threat (the moral hazard of preemption), organisation (what groups or people can be targeted?), intensity of hostilities, targeting rules, transparency et cetera. Each of these problems emanates from legal principles that have become customary practice and are recognized as such in the body of law as it exists (lex lata).

What jurists fear, and this fear has been expressed in multiple high-end reports, is that the US is making an effort to change the practice of existing law in favour of lex ferenda (future law) which does not obtain at this point.

This is, and was, inevitable. In situations where the nature of conflict has changed and remains in a state of flux, there is always tension between law and force.

The existing body of laws dealing with self-defence at one end (Article 51 of the UN Charter) and non-use of force at the other (Article 2 (4) of the Charter) presupposed inter-state conflict. Even the idea of preemption related to a recognised way of fighting and some determination of the principle of imminence.

That situation has changed. Self-defence, incorporating the idea of preemption, now focuses on the highly controversial concept of anticipatory self-defence with all its attendant moral hazard.

As jurists have pointed out, this throws the problem back to the pre-Charter days, to what is termed as the Caroline incident.

The precise threshold for determining imminence is a subject of dispute and will always remain so. And it becomes even more problematic when preemption is conflated with prevention, as happened in the Caroline case or when the Israeli jets struck the reactor in Iraq, to mention just two examples.

This is how Ben Emmerson put it in his report to the UN:

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This, then, is the bird’s-eye view of drones and drones use. The technology will only move further, its uses will multiply, in many cases drones will remain the preferred option as a weapon platform and law will have to keep pace with the technological and operational contours of these pilotless birds.

It will become easier to figure out a legal-normative framework for their weaponised use when more states have developed armed drones with beyond-line-of-sight capability.

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There has been noteworthy increase in public disapproval of drones since 2013. American’s own disapproval of missile strikes has grown 11 per cent in the past year.

Israel, Kenya and the US are the only nations polled where at least half of the public supports drone strikes.

Women are more likely than men to oppose drone strikes in America whereas young Americans disapprove it more than the older generation.

It is pertinent to mention here that Pakistan was the only country surveyed where the US drone strikes take place, with the other two countries being Yemen and Somalia.

If you could open this link you would find some interesting graphics ,which i can't figure out how to post here .
Respect for Imran Khan and all the other parties who stood up against drones.

Unfair advantage Of death and drones - DAWN.COM

There is one particular strike where for 1 militant ,78 civilians were killed.The brutality,the savagery.I'm surprised how could our government say nothing.Thank god tough times have passed us.Who will be answerable for this .It is basically the weakness of Pakistan government which US is milking from. Can US go and bomb a village in Indian Punjab ? or even in Indian Occupied Kashmir ? If a terrorist slide thro' Indian occupied Kashmir will US go behind him and drop a drone missile in IOK ? No right? why ? Indian Govt will rip US off for such activity. But our Pakistan govt only sit and condemn the killing.
Although this is old,i came across it and thought it was worth sharing.Makes me angry:mad: and annoyed and sad.
Then again who is responsible for this savagery?How could we let this happen ?
Found this,What in the hell is wrong with people . @Irfan Baloch ,this is what breaks my heart .
War games: Documentary shows how US recruited gamers to fly drones into Pakistan
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‘We didn’t even really know who we were firing at’ – former US drone operator
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Former US drone sensor operator Brandon Bryant admits he “couldn’t stand” himself for his participation in the country’s drone program for six years – firing on targets whose identities often went unconfirmed.


Since 2001, and increasingly under the Obama administration, the US has been carrying out drone strikes against targets believed to be affiliated with terrorist organizations in countries like Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan and Somalia. The program, which has been shrouded in secrecy, has been routinely criticized for the high number of resultant civilian casualties.
Pakistan’s Peshawar High Court ruled in 2013 that the attacks constitute a war crime and violate the UN Universal Declaration on Human Rights. Meanwhile the Obama administration continues to insist that drone warfare is a precise and effective method of combat.

According to data collected by the human rights group Reprieve and published last November, attempts to kill 41 targeted individuals across Pakistan and Yemen resulted in the deaths of some 1,147 people. Often a kill requires multiple strikes, the group noted.

‘We didn’t even really know who we were firing at’ – former US drone operator — RT News
 
‘We didn’t even really know who we were firing at’ – former US drone operator
us_drone_operator.si.jpg

Former US drone sensor operator Brandon Bryant admits he “couldn’t stand” himself for his participation in the country’s drone program for six years – firing on targets whose identities often went unconfirmed.


Since 2001, and increasingly under the Obama administration, the US has been carrying out drone strikes against targets believed to be affiliated with terrorist organizations in countries like Afghanistan, Yemen, Pakistan and Somalia. The program, which has been shrouded in secrecy, has been routinely criticized for the high number of resultant civilian casualties.
Pakistan’s Peshawar High Court ruled in 2013 that the attacks constitute a war crime and violate the UN Universal Declaration on Human Rights. Meanwhile the Obama administration continues to insist that drone warfare is a precise and effective method of combat.

According to data collected by the human rights group Reprieve and published last November, attempts to kill 41 targeted individuals across Pakistan and Yemen resulted in the deaths of some 1,147 people. Often a kill requires multiple strikes, the group noted.

‘We didn’t even really know who we were firing at’ – former US drone operator — RT News
WTF , this so sad,am so effing angry.Failure of our government .
 
the fault is not with the technology
but its ruthless and indiscriminate use

in some cases like right after Raymond Davis flew back to USA

CIA punished Pakistan by attacking a local open gathering of people in the tribal areas. the operator of drone and their seniors knew exactly who they were attacking, ordinary tribesmen engaged in business and meeting in the day light and even had the government representatives and Levis there. the death toll was about 80 or more.

the drone has the capability to loiter and and monitor the ground below and much lower speed and with specialised equipment. just like a scout or a sniper would on the ground. it is up to the operator and his chief to decide if a target needs further investigation or if the fact that there are other people around really matter or not? SO

the culprit here is one who knowing very well that there might be innocent down there, doesn't really cares and discharges his weapons or is not careful about his target selection.

as far as unfair advantage of drones is concerned, well there is nothing fair in war

we will use our advantage of technology, no matter how much TTP hates it and how much Lal Masjid, Judiciary, Lawyers, Hamid Mir Jaffer and Jamat harami hates it. because the TTP also uses its advantage when it can and hides like rats among us and attacks those that cant fight back.

my only complain with Pakistan army is that it is not using chemical weapons on the remote hideouts and cave networks which will not only save countless lives of our soldiers who have to go there on foot later and face ambushes but also instil fear among the cave dwelling pests and scum the TTP are.
 
Drones, a killing program where a human gets to act like a God once a week. Deciding and signing who is to die and who is to live.

For them any male who is over 15 of years of age (I guess) is a militant or to be militant and deserves to die.
 
the fault is not with the technology
but its ruthless and indiscriminate use

in some cases like right after Raymond Davis flew back to USA

CIA punished Pakistan by attacking a local open gathering of people in the tribal areas. the operator of drone and their seniors knew exactly who they were attacking, ordinary tribesmen engaged in business and meeting in the day light and even had the government representatives and Levis there. the death toll was about 80 or more.

the drone has the capability to loiter and and monitor the ground below and much lower speed and with specialised equipment. just like a scout or a sniper would on the ground. it is up to the operator and his chief to decide if a target needs further investigation or if the fact that there are other people around really matter or not? SO

the culprit here is one who knowing very well that there might be innocent down there, doesn't really cares and discharges his weapons or is not careful about his target selection.

as far as unfair advantage of drones is concerned, well there is nothing fair in war

we will use our advantage of technology, no matter how much TTP hates it and how much Lal Masjid, Judiciary, Lawyers, Hamid Mir Jaffer and Jamat harami hates it. because the TTP also uses its advantage when it can and hides like rats among us and attacks those that cant fight back.

my only complain with Pakistan army is that it is not using chemical weapons on the remote hideouts and cave networks which will not only save countless lives of our soldiers who have to go there on foot later and face ambushes but also instil fear among the cave dwelling pests and scum the TTP are.
Is there anyone answerable for this barbarism?who would you blame? I am all for drones but whats the point in killing 78 civilians for 1 militant .That's just inhuman.We should have never allowed them to operate in these parts,luckily we have a genius in shape of Raheel Sharif,he has a great vision for FATA.The Army is doing a great job,time to clean our beloved country of this terrorism bullshit.Your thoughts on this sir ?
We didn’t even really know who we were firing at’ – former US drone operator
 
Initially, when some high value targets were taken out by these drones, some in the power corridors saw it as US doing Pakistan's dirty laundry and decided to turn a blind eye, give them an inch and they will take a mile was the after effect. Finding some highly prized scumbags sheltering inside Pakistan did put the authorities on backfoot and more liberty to US, in fact the attitude became aggressive. Air Marshal (R) Shahid Latif is on record for saying that letting the US Choppers go unscathed after their OBL raid was a grave mistake, PAF may have eventually lost the F-16s tailing the US choppers, but next time US would think twice before trespassing in this manner.
Anyways, as the PA and PAF takes the war to these rats, the US drone strikes have somewhat receded. Due to the risk of collateral damage, our security forces are suffering casualties but we are fighting and hitting them our way.
And now since we have acquired our own drone technology, it will take pressure off our air force and our foot soldiers wouldn't be exposed unnecessary.
 
I am suprised nobody talks for them,aren't they Pakistani?not a single moum batti for them.

Selective (read deliberate/ Assumed Amnesia) is another form of Shameless lying and misinformation

for your benefit I have given links of local and world news websites covering protests against the drone strikes

and the pictures include people from Pakistan and across the globe. I have deliberately left religious organisations because if I had pasted them then you would have seen the empty glass saying BUTT there are no liberals protesting (so there are enough western photos to close your mouth and open your mind).

And the last picture is the best
it is by the former United States Marine corps personnel who is also protesting against the deaths of innocent civilians due to drone strikes




bookmark this page or make a print out of this one and whenever someone utters the "innocence" like yours then stab him in the eye with this page funnel.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/24/world/asia/in-pakistan-rally-protests-drone-strikes.html
Thousands protest against drone strikes in Peshawar - Pakistan - DAWN.COM
Thousands protest US drone strikes in Pakistan — RT News
‘Drones fly, children die’: US activists launch massive anti-drone campaign — RT USA


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now show me few pictures or reports of pure Muslims protesting against the beheading of innocent westerners at the hands of terrorists.
 
[U said:
now show me few pictures or reports of pure Muslims protesting against the beheading of innocent westerners at the hands of terrorists. [/U]

You mean Westerns are very kind and muslims are not?and please also show me innocent westerns.

BTW i was talking about our so called NGOs and media.
 
Initially, when some high value targets were taken out by these drones, some in the power corridors saw it as US doing Pakistan's dirty laundry and decided to turn a blind eye, give them an inch and they will take a mile was the after effect. Finding some highly prized scumbags sheltering inside Pakistan did put the authorities on backfoot and more liberty to US, in fact the attitude became aggressive. Air Marshal (R) Shahid Latif is on record for saying that letting the US Choppers go unscathed after their OBL raid was a grave mistake, PAF may have eventually lost the F-16s tailing the US choppers, but next time US would think twice before trespassing in this manner.
Anyways, as the PA and PAF takes the war to these rats, the US drone strikes have somewhat receded. Due to the risk of collateral damage, our security forces are suffering casualties but we are fighting and hitting them our way.
And now since we have acquired our own drone technology, it will take pressure off our air force and our foot soldiers wouldn't be exposed unnecessary.

You seem like a well informed poster, can you tell me in Parachinar is it a airstrip or an air base?
 
why you care unless you want to pass this information to someone hostile to Pakistan military?

Okay. But its all over the map right in front of me. Its more like a SBU info.

And who that someone would be to whom I would pass on this info to?
 

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