Ukraine to nationalize Motor Sich, An-225 Mriya engine maker

[sinait]

You realize that really doesn't prove my point wrong, right? If its only one aircraft, and if Chinese engines are superior, just replace the engine with a Chinese one. Why do you need a production line for a supposedly inferior engine, when the engine can be replaced with a superior one? Why spend billions trying to acquire a simple production line?

Again, this argument doesn't make sense.

Don't know why you persist with your silly argument.
Why would China spend time and effort on a non critical mature product that is available and provided cheaply and dilute their effort to catch up militarily with the only adversary(US) that matters.
Aquiring Motor Sich will quickly expand China's production with products that China is already using, and may also open new revenue streams.

Its akin to asking why Mercedes Benz is stupid to acquire the Vitoria auto plant in Spain from Auto Union to produce commercial vans when Mercedes Benz are able to make better quality cars and vans in Germany.

It would probably be far cheaper. I'd say its worth it.

China products are cheap when compared with products from developed countries, but price differential with Ukranian prices may not be much.
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[That Guy]

Don't know why you persist with your silly argument.
Why would China spend time and effort on a non critical mature product that is available and provided cheaply and dilute their effort to catch up militarily with the only adversary(US) that matters.
Aquiring Motor Sich will quickly expand China's production with products that China is already using, and may also open new revenue streams.

Its akin to asking why Mercedes Benz is stupid to acquire the Vitoria auto plant in Spain from Auto Union to produce commercial vans when Mercedes Benz are able to make better quality cars and vans in Germany.

I keep persisting because no one has addressed my main question without trying put caveats to the argument.

Your Mercedes benz argument actually proves my point, you realize that, right?

China products are cheap when compared with products from developed countries, but price differential with Ukranian prices may not be much.
.

That really one helps my argument.

 

[Beast]

I keep persisting because no one has addressed my main question without trying put caveats to the argument.

Your Mercedes benz argument actually proves my point, you realize that, right?



That really one helps my argument.

Lol.. what issue still not address? Any you think motor sich is mercedes? You need to get yourself check.

 

[That Guy]

Lol.. what issue still not address? Any you think motor sich is mercedes? You need to get yourself check.

My main point: Why should Ukraine allow the sale of a company to China?

Also, considering you keep getting offended over every little thing I say, YOU need to get yourself checked.

 

[zhxy]

Ukraine doesn't want to sell, that's their freedom, China doesn't force them. The problem is that Ukraine does not want to sell, nor does it want to pay Chinese investors back. This is robbery and terrorism.

 

[KurtisBrian]

My main point: Why should Ukraine allow the sale of a company to China?

Because if we can work together we are more efficient and all become richer.

Working together requires, trust, compassion, loyalty, honor, patience, justice...for all and from all.....so difficult.

 

[That Guy]

Because if we can work together we are more efficient and all become richer.

Working together requires, trust, compassion, loyalty, honor, patience, justice...for all and from all.....so difficult.

Obviously Ukraine considers this a threat to its national interests. This idea of international cooperation and peace is all fine and dandy to listen to and read about, but it very shaky in reality, because national interests trump anything.

If we believe some of that claims made by certain members on this forum, the what can China offer to Ukraine that can be a good enough excuse to jeopardize Ukrainian-USA relations?

Again, why should Ukraine sell to China? Give me a realistic answer, not a rose tinted one.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Again, why should Ukraine sell to China? Give me a realistic answer, not a rose tinted one.

For money. They sold Varyag to China. They sold Su-33 prototype to China. They sold ship engines to China.

 

[bshifter]

Zubr too

 

[jaybird]

Obviously Ukraine considers this a threat to its national interests. This idea of international cooperation and peace is all fine and dandy to listen to and read about, but it very shaky in reality, because national interests trump anything.

If we believe some of that claims made by certain members on this forum, the what can China offer to Ukraine that can be a good enough excuse to jeopardize Ukrainian-USA relations?

Again, why should Ukraine sell to China? Give me a realistic answer, not a rose tinted one.

Money, Money , Money.

Because Motor Sich is a private company with shrinking orders and poor management that's going bankrupt. They obviously needs Chinese money keep the company afloat. The company is an empty shell compared to their Heydays. But their engine technology which they inherited from soviet union era are still very valuable to China especially the D-18T engine and potential of the Antonov An-225 strategic airlift cargo aircraft.

The other 2 engines also of value is the AL-222-25 that's installed on Chinese L-15. And the Mi-17 engine TV3-117 which China operate in the 100s. China of course can invest in their own company and produce similar engines. But why would they do that if you can buy the company and it's engine technology from Ukraine for 5 Billion dollars and save the development time. The Ukrainian government never object to the sell until American gov put pressure on them to reverse course and nationalize Motor Sich.

 

[KurtisBrian]

Obviously Ukraine considers this a threat to its national interests. This idea of international cooperation and peace is all fine and dandy to listen to and read about, but it very shaky in reality, because national interests trump anything.

If we believe some of that claims made by certain members on this forum, the what can China offer to Ukraine that can be a good enough excuse to jeopardize Ukrainian-USA relations?

Again, why should Ukraine sell to China? Give me a realistic answer, not a rose tinted one.

I have given a reason to sell (my second post) and I have given a reason not to sell (my first post). You weighed the two and chose the reason not to sell. Perhaps the reasons would carry different weights for another.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Since 2014 Crimea annexation Russia has stopped cooperation with Ukraine on engines. Nowadays Russian engines are far superior to Ukrainian engines. No wonder Motor Sich wanted Chinese investment to keep it alive.

 

[jaybird]

Since 2014 Crimea annexation Russia has stopped cooperation with Ukraine on engines. Nowadays Russian engines are far superior to Ukrainian engines. No wonder Motor Sich wanted Chinese investment to keep it alive.

Motor Sich probably will go belly up without the big ticket orders from Russia and China. Because western countries don't need to buy Ukrainian engines or cargo planes.

Usually companies such as this needs government subside to last unless you are the leader of the industry like Boeing. But the Ukrainian government itself is going bankrupt and needs aid from other countries.

So, nationalize Motor Sich might stop D-18T turbofan engines technology falls into Chinese hand. But will add more bleeding to the Ukrainian budget especially China retaliate and stop business and cooperation with the Ukrainians on other sectors.

 

[That Guy]

For money. They sold Varyag to China. They sold Su-33 prototype to China. They sold ship engines to China.

Varyag was an abandoned ship that belonged to the former soviet union. Ukraine had no means of completing it, nor did it have any need for such a vessel, nor did it have any sort of vital technology. For the Su-33, just because the fighter was sold, doesn't really mean anything, none of the fighter's blueprints were sold. China had to reverse engineer it, because it had no blue prints to work with.

Your comparisons don't work 1 to 1.

I have given a reason to sell (my second post) and I have given a reason not to sell (my first post). You weighed the two and chose the reason not to sell. Perhaps the reasons would carry different weights for another.

Perhaps, and considering Ukraine isn't selling, clearly they see some sort of benefit from not doing so. Nations make choices based on interests, not emotions.

Money, Money , Money.

Because Motor Sich is a private company with shrinking orders and poor management that's going bankrupt. They obviously needs Chinese money keep the company afloat. The company is an empty shell compared to their Heydays. But their engine technology which they inherited from soviet union era are still very valuable to China especially the D-18T engine and potential of the Antonov An-225 strategic airlift cargo aircraft.

The other 2 engines also of value is the AL-222-25 that's installed on Chinese L-15. And the Mi-17 engine TV3-117 which China operate in the 100s. China of course can invest in their own company and produce similar engines. But why would they do that if you can buy the company and it's engine technology from Ukraine for 5 Billion dollars and save the development time. The Ukrainian government never object to the sell until American gov put pressure on them to reverse course and nationalize Motor Sich.

Finally, some one who's honest with their answer.

Whether the Ukrainians were put under pressure or not, its very clear why China wants to buy it, despite certain members here pretending otherwise. The Ukrainians obviously evaluated the cost and benefit, and decided the costs of selling was too much, namely it would jeopardize its new found relationship with the US and EU, who've both helping Ukraine against Russia, as well as Ukraine's economy.

 

[sinait]

Varyag was an abandoned ship that belonged to the former soviet union. Ukraine had no means of completing it, nor did it have any need for such a vessel, nor did it have any sort of vital technology. For the Su-33, just because the fighter was sold, doesn't really mean anything, none of the fighter's blueprints were sold. China had to reverse engineer it, because it had no blue prints to work with.

Your comparisons don't work 1 to 1.

Perhaps, and considering Ukraine isn't selling, clearly they see some sort of benefit from not doing so. Nations make choices based on interests, not emotions.

Finally, some one who's honest with their answer.

Whether the Ukrainians were put under pressure or not, its very clear why China wants to buy it, despite certain members here pretending otherwise. The Ukrainians obviously evaluated the cost and benefit, and decided the costs of selling was too much, namely it would jeopardize its new found relationship with the US and EU, who've both helping Ukraine against Russia, as well as Ukraine's economy.

The Ukrainians obviously evaluated the cost and benefit, and decided the costs of selling was too much, namely it would jeopardize its new found relationship with the US and EU, who've both helping Ukraine against Russia, as well as Ukraine's economy.

Finally after 1 BIG ROUND, you agree its the recent US and EU pressure that is working against this WIN WIN transaction.
Finally an honest answer.

This sale though very beneficial to both sides, is NOT ESSENTIAL, so Ukraine just need to pay up.
Similar to the Vitorial Auto Plant is beneficial and good to have but not essential to Mercedes Benz.
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