Ukraine to nationalize Motor Sich, An-225 Mriya engine maker

[That Guy]

Your statement is valid until Ukraine can gurantee pay back the money invested to Chinese for nationalize motor sich.

You have yet to reply me Ukraine has promised to pay back Chinese money or willing to foot compensate with any statement from Ukraine side.

All is your wishful thinking Ukraine will act rational and according what international law stated. These Ukrainian try to play jungle law and we will give them one.

Once again, what international law was broken? You keep saying international law without actually citing it. What am I suppose to reply to, when your accusation is so vague?

I will say this again, Chinese investors are free to sue Ukraine for lost investment due to nationalization, assuming Ukraine doesn't pay the investment back.

It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.

What are you looking for? Reason for China to buy or reason for ukraine to sell? Chinese company wants to buy because motor sich can be profitable as a Chinese company. Ukraine want to sell because without Chinese orders, the company would go bankrupt. Yes, I know the ukrainian gov nationalized. Now it is up to the ukrainian tax payers to keep its lights on. Go ahead, argue this is not the case.

First, Ukraine is now about to sell engines to Turkey, and apparently a fairly large order at that, so they aren't in danger of going bankrupt any time soon.

Second, REGARDLESS of the reason, why point remains consistent, Ukraine does not want to sell vital technology to China. You're arguing something completely different to my point.

 

[casual]

First, Ukraine is now about to sell engines to Turkey, and apparently a fairly large order at that, so they aren't in danger of going bankrupt any time soon.

Second, REGARDLESS of the reason, why point remains consistent, Ukraine does not want to sell vital technology to China. You're arguing something completely different to my point.

YOU are the one asking for the reason why Ukraine would want to sell and I gave you the reason. Now you are disregarding it?! ok... And the motor sich's technology is all soviet era. Not sure why Turkey wants them when Turkey has access to much better engines from western companies.

 

[Beast]

Once again, what international law was broken? You keep saying international law without actually citing it. What am I suppose to reply to, when your accusation is so vague?

I will say this again, Chinese investors are free to sue Ukraine for lost investment due to nationalization, assuming Ukraine doesn't pay the investment back.

It's not that hard of a concept to grasp.

First, Ukraine is now about to sell engines to Turkey, and apparently a fairly large order at that, so they aren't in danger of going bankrupt any time soon.

Second, REGARDLESS of the reason, why point remains consistent, Ukraine does not want to sell vital technology to China. You're arguing something completely different to my point.

You are just avoiding the point. Chinese investor are now facing a government abusing it's power who nationalized the company. Ukraine government has not intention to pay back any money. The Chinese enterprise has already seeking a USD 5 billion compensation. You have yet to show me any prove Ukraine government has any intention to pay back a single cent for breach of contract besides keep avoiding the point.

Turkish is not some messiah that can handle such large debt and poor facilities of Motor Sich. How big is their order? USS 10 billion? Let me warn u, if US can influence Ukraine not to do business with China. What makes u think Turkey a country at odd with US and a Muslim country has better chance to avoid the same fate as Chinese deal.

This snake Ukrainian will ask for money first from Turkey but will never delivered anything under nationalised BS or security law.

 

[That Guy]

YOU are the one asking for the reason why Ukraine would want to sell and I gave you the reason. Now you are disregarding it?! ok... And the motor sich's technology is all soviet era. Not sure why Turkey wants them when Turkey has access to much better engines from western companies.

I'm asking for a valid reason that address actual reality. Your reason is very clearly not good enough for Ukraine, which is why it's being nationalized in the first place.

Guess what, the Varyag is also soviet era, that didn't stop China from basing their air craft carriers on its basic design.

 

[That Guy]

You are just avoiding the point. Chinese investor are now facing a government abusing it's power who nationalized the company. Ukraine government has not intention to pay back any money. The Chinese enterprise has already seeking a USD 5 billion compensation. You have yet to show me any prove Ukraine government has any intention to pay back a single cent for breach of contract besides keep avoiding the point.

Turkish is not some messiah that can handle such large debt and poor facilities of Motor Sich. How big is their order? USS 10 billion? Let me warn u, if US can influence Ukraine not to do business with China. What makes u think Turkey a country at odd with US and a Muslim country has better chance to avoid the same fate as Chinese deal.

This snake Ukrainian will ask for money first from Turkey but will never delivered anything under nationalised BS or security law.

I am not avoid the point, you are ignoring my comment. I already said that China is free to sue, simple as that.

Once again, this is not a hard concept to grasp.

I never said Turkey is some messiah. Your comments were that no one is buying from Motor Sich, I proved that wrong. Simple.

Why are you warning me? I don't care what Turkey, Ukraine, the US, or China do.

Turkey is a part of NATO, and the only real dispute between the US and Turkey is the s-400 system, which I'm convinced with be resolved within the next few years. The US doesn't give a darn if they're Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Taoist, Atheist....etc. You know this argument won't work with anyone with even a bit of knowledge and common sense, so why bother making it?

Anyway, I'm done here. Clearly we're going nowhere with this. The facts remain unchanging, and its up to China, Ukraine and the US to resolve their problems.

 

[casual]

I'm asking for a valid reason that address actual reality. Your reason is very clearly not good enough for Ukraine, which is why it's being nationalized in the first place.

Guess what, the Varyag is also soviet era, that didn't stop China from basing their air craft carriers on its basic design.

oh please. the varyag was purchased more then 20 years ago where Chinese gdp was only 1/14 of what it is now. Ukraine could have stopped Chinese acquisition of Motor Sich when the offer had been made but it did not. The country worried about the acquisition is not Ukraine but USA. Given the leverage the US gov has on Ukraine now, Ukraine gov has to force Motor Sich to breach the acquisition contract.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

oh please. the varyag was purchased more then 20 years ago where Chinese gdp was only 1/14 of what it is now. Ukraine could have stopped Chinese acquisition of Motor Sich when the offer had been made but it did not. The country worried about the acquisition is not Ukraine but USA. Given the leverage the US gov has on Ukraine now, Ukraine gov has to force Motor Sich to breach the acquisition contract.

This is why Ukraine will suffer and Motor Sich will die. Only China could have saved Motor Sich. The US won't buy a single engine from Motor Sich.

 

[KurtisBrian]

This is why Ukraine will suffer and Motor Sich will die. Only China could have saved Motor Sich. The US won't buy a single engine from Motor Sich.

Perhaps some of the crooked folks in the Ukraine gov't will be paid off in USD and given green cards to the USA. A reward for services. Easier to buy off a few people in gov't than to buy a corporation or nation.
Weren't there rumors and emails going around that Biden was doing exactly that in the Ukraine?

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Perhaps some of the crooked folks in the Ukraine gov't will be paid off in USD and given green cards to the USA. A reward for services. Easier to buy off a few people in gov't than to buy a corporation or nation.
Weren't there rumors and emails going around that Biden was doing exactly that in the Ukraine?

Ukraine is highly corrupt. The execs of Motor Sich were paid millions by America and they will shut down the company and lay off tens of thousands of workers.

 

[That Guy]

oh please. the varyag was purchased more then 20 years ago where Chinese gdp was only 1/14 of what it is now. Ukraine could have stopped Chinese acquisition of Motor Sich when the offer had been made but it did not. The country worried about the acquisition is not Ukraine but USA. Given the leverage the US gov has on Ukraine now, Ukraine gov has to force Motor Sich to breach the acquisition contract.

What does it matter what China's economy was and is like? You keep bringing it up as if it somehow matters, when it doesn't. That argument may work with a moron, but it won't work with someone who can clearly see through the bs. I don't know why you keep insisting on making this argument with me, when you clearly know its a bad argument to make.

The Chinese bought the AC with the promise of using it for civilian purposes, in other words, they told the Ukrainians they'd be building a floating casino, or did you forget that part?

Whether its Ukraine, or the US, the the problem remains the same, engine technology going into Chinese hands. Let's not pretend that China hasn't been having difficulty with its engine technology for over 2 decades.

On a side note, Ukraine actually did try to stop it multiple times, but they couldn't, so nationalization was the last resort.

 

[casual]

What does it matter what China's economy was and is like? You keep bringing it up as if it somehow matters, when it doesn't. That argument may work with a moron, but it won't work with someone who can clearly see through the bs. I don't know why you keep insisting on making this argument with me, when you clearly know its a bad argument to make.

my point is China needed that technology 20 years ago. China has made technological advancements supported by it's economy. China does not need that technology anymore because it developed it's own.

The Chinese bought the AC with the promise of using it for civilian purposes, in other words, they told the Ukrainians they'd be building a floating casino, or did you forget that part?

Apparently you don't know what a promise is. No contracts were signed stating that it couldn't be rebuilt and used as a AC. And Ukraine didn't care what China did with it.

Whether its Ukraine, or the US, the the problem remains the same, engine technology going into Chinese hands. Let's not pretend that China hasn't been having difficulty with its engine technology for over 2 decades.

Ukraine is not the US. Ukraine has it's own national interests. US on the other hand would be happy to sacrifice all of Ukraine if it means harming Chinese interests. Yes, China struggled with it's domestic engine development for 3 decades. However, the new lineup of Chinese domestic engines are better in every aspect then the ones Motor sich makes. Your augment that China needs Ukraine technology doesn't make any sense. If you want to argue this point further, provide one engine that Ukraine sales that is superior to Chinese domestic engines.

On a side note, Ukraine actually did try to stop it multiple times, but they couldn't, so nationalization was the last resort.

The acquisition cleared the Ukrainian government review. So I don't know what you are talking about here.

 

[That Guy]

my point is China needed that technology 20 years ago. China has made technological advancements supported by it's economy. China does not need that technology anymore because it developed it's own.

Thats a poor excuse, as China is still having trouble with engine development.

Apparently you don't know what a promise is. No contracts were signed stating that it couldn't be rebuilt and used as a AC. And Ukraine didn't care what China did with it.

Apparently you don't know what international relations are. This isn't a school yard promise, its an agreement that could affect international relations. China was willing to risk relations with Ukraine to gain Ukrainian technology; Ukraine is obviously no longer in the mood to sell to China.

Ukraine is not the US. Ukraine has it's own national interests. US on the other hand would be happy to sacrifice all of Ukraine if it means harming Chinese interests. Yes, China struggled with it's domestic engine development for 3 decades. However, the new lineup of Chinese domestic engines are better in every aspect then the ones Motor sich makes. Your augment that China needs Ukraine technology doesn't make any sense. If you want to argue this point further, provide one engine that Ukraine sales that is superior to Chinese domestic engines.

First, Ukraine has decided its against their national interests to sell to China. If you believe otherwise, I suggest you take a plane ticket and book an appointment with Ukrainian officials to try and convince them otherwise, I'm merely telling you what they've said.

Second, ONCE AGAIN, if Chinese technology is so much better, the China simply should look at replacing Motor Sich engines with domestic ones. They'd have to spend a few billion on a redesign, sure, but they're already spending multiple billions trying to buy Motor Soch anyway.

Your argument doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

The acquisition cleared the Ukrainian government review. So I don't know what you are talking about here.

Ukraine actually did object to it multiple times, but because Motor Sich was a private entity, selling it was not technically against Ukrainian law, thus it cleared any review. This is why its being nationalized.

Once again, the Ukrainians are the ones who are objecting to his, not me. Clearly they have a problem with this sale, whatever the reason may be.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

The Chinese bought the AC with the promise of using it for civilian purposes, in other words, they told the Ukrainians they'd be building a floating casino, or did you forget that part?

A verbal agreement without signing any document is worthless. And having a casino in a carrier is the dumbest idea everyone knew China was going to refit that carrier for military use.

 

[That Guy]

A verbal agreement without signing any document is worthless. And having a casino in a carrier is the dumbest idea everyone knew China was going to refit that carrier for military use.

How many times have I told you not to reply to me? I have no interest in your comments.