U.S. War with China “Inevitable,” Author Glain Says

[below_freezing]

i dont think china can...why? the USN has roughly 150 cruisers, destroyers, and submarines. if they on average carry 50 tomahawks(they can carry almost double that amount actually) thats 7500 tomahawks, dont u think they would be fired before the raptors/f-35s/f-18s take to the air? i know u have missile defenses but a salvo like that is IMPOSSIBLE to take down, not to mention they would be striking fixed targets while ur missiles would have to attack moving targets (ships) with some of the most advanced defenses anywhere.

also u wouldnt be able to bring your entire air force into the theater because you have other neighbors to worry about (India). you say u have a lot of factories? bullshit theyll be destroyed in the first few days and the supply line would be sanctioned (u dont build everything in china)

Can your entire navy be concentrated within the firing range of the Tomahawk?

The problem for your assumption too, is that you assume our air force is not already forward deployed. We left our flank towards India open and concentrated our airforce in the east, in the probable direction of US attack. India still doesn't dare attack us with a skeleton army in Tibet, because even this skeleton army is enough to kick them back down the Himalayas. Geography dictates that our southwest is safe.

Even 1 missile getting through CIWS can sink a destroyer or cruiser. We have over 1000 figher planes in our air force and 300 strike fighters in our naval aviation. There's also 47 ultraquiet diesel electric subs to get through, 5 nuclear attack subs, 26 destroyers and 51 frigates. There are also 132 Type 022 stealth missile boats with radar cross section < 10 m2, comparable to the size of waves on the ocean and easily rejected by radar at missile firing ranges as noise.

If it was that easy, you would've done it a LONG time ago.

 

[below_freezing]

They say that the military gap between the superpower (USA) and the next next most powerful country (supposedly China) is the greatest it has ever been.
Even the British Empire at its height did not have such an advantage over France.
The US would decimate China, I'm sure if such a war took place then troops from Iraq or whatever would be pulled out.
You say it's overstretched, yet only 1 quarter of its total force is currently deployed and yet they still simultaneously occupy 2 countries.

The US tried to decimate China before and the end result was the pushing back of the US 400 km with China at its weakest.

3000 fixed wing planes and 5000 helicopters were downed in the Vietnam war with Chinese and Russian supplied arms.

Today, I don't think you need to know what will happen to the USN's carriers when their bulky, slow flying, unmaneuverable, short legged F-18s go against fast, flexible, heavily armed J-10s, J-11s, and Su-30s, low flying bombers like the JH-7, ground missiles like the DF-21, diesel electric subs, stealth missile boats with RCS smaller than ocean waves and a surface fleet with a 51 frigates and 26 destroyers.

 

[888jamie888]

The US tried to decimate China before and the end result was the pushing back of the US 400 km with China at its weakest.

3000 fixed wing planes and 5000 helicopters were downed in the Vietnam war with Chinese and Russian supplied arms.

Today, I don't think you need to know what will happen to the USN's carriers when their bulky, slow flying, unmaneuverable, short legged F-18s go against fast, flexible, heavily armed J-10s, J-11s, and Su-30s, low flying bombers like the JH-7, ground missiles like the DF-21, diesel electric subs, stealth missile boats with RCS smaller than ocean waves and a surface fleet with a 51 frigates and 26 destroyers.

Yep and how many men did you lose? Upwards of 200,000. And who pushed you back? Also that was decades ago.
Their AF and navy is both bigger and more advanced. They are also very experienced.

 

[CardSharp]

They say that the military gap between the superpower (USA) and the next next most powerful country (supposedly China) is the greatest it has ever been.

lol that's something to be proud of? With a looming economic crisis and the deficit being used to beat poor people over social spending, it is a moral failing to spend ~ as much as the rest of the world combined. We know what the military is there for, and it's not to protect America from invasion.

As someone once quibbed, they named the US military behemoth, the US department of Defence as a joke.

 

[888jamie888]

lol that's something to be proud of? With a looming economic crisis and the deficit being used to beat poor people over social spending, it is a moral failing to spend ~ as much as the rest of the world combined. We know what the military is there for, and it's not to protect America from invasion.

As someone once quibbed, they named the US military behemoth, the US department of Defence as a joke.

Well if, as you said, China can defend itself why is it expanding it's military? Having a military advantage is pretty relevant when discussing war.
Please explain your poor people bit better.

 

[CardSharp]

Well if, as you said, China can defend itself why is it expanding it's military? Having a military advantage is pretty relevant when discussing war.
Please explain your poor people bit better.

My poor people? I'll ignore the snarkiness and take it a serious question. Well China has taken 400 million+ people out of real poverty in 20 something years and wages have 7x and 8x in the same period, while wages in the US for the middle class and lower class have declined in real terms in the same period.


China spends 2.2 percent of GDP on defence, the US spends 4.7 percent, MORE than twice as much per capita.

List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As to why China spending more now? well easy, military spending is keep up with GDP for the first time ever (it declined as a ratio to GDP in the previous decades). China's growth has averaged 9% remember?

Also just because RAND corporation (funded by the US government) thinks that China MAY be able to win an air war on its OWN coast, that's not enough of an assurance for the Chinese people, I am sure.

 

[Desert Fox]

Sir, I beg to differ here. I dont think it will be feasible for either US or China to fight in Chinese mainland. So IMHO either the war will be fought on Pakistani soil or in Myanmar or North Korea. Or the US will draw out the PLAN into the high seas where the US is more capable in a battle with its pacific fleet or draw the Chinese fleet to IOR. And I dont think the Chinese will take the trap...and they will counter you by provocation...this is going to go on and thus heralding a new cold war era.

Well, then in that case it will also be fought on indian soil, don't you think?

 

[manojb]

ATTACK ON CHINA MEANS ATTACK ON PAKISTAN.

Can we know how will pak retalliate? By rejecting aid? Dumping f16 ?

 

[CardSharp]

Can we know how will pak retalliate? By rejecting aid? Dumping f16 ?

Cranking up violence in Afghanistan, cutting off supplies to 116,000 US armed forces personnel. Take your pick?

Pakistan can end the Afghan occupation simply by not allowing US convoys to run from Pakistan to Afghanistan, which is well within its right as a sovereign nation if the US does something it doesn't like. Pakistan can erase whatever "gains" the US achieved in 10 years, in a day.

 

[888jamie888]

My poor people? I'll ignore the snarkiness and take it a serious question. Well China has taken 400 million+ people out of real poverty in 20 something years and wages have 7x and 8x in the same period, while wages in the US for the middle class and lower class have declined in real terms in the same period.


China spends 2.2 percent of GDP on defence, the US spends 4.7 percent, MORE than twice as much per capita.

List of countries by military expenditures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As to why China spending more now? well easy, military spending is keep up with GDP for the first time ever (it declined as a ratio to GDP in the previous decades). China's growth has averaged 9% remember?

Also just because RAND corporation (funded by the US government) thinks that China MAY be able to win an air war on its OWN coast, that's not enough of an assurance for the Chinese people, I am sure.

Sorry I wasn't insulting you, I genuinely did not know why you were talking about poor people.
The US will not attack for no reason, if you do not threaten it militarily then it will not invade. It's own people will see to that.

 

[below_freezing]

Yep and how many men did you lose? Upwards of 200,000. And who pushed you back? Also that was decades ago.
Their AF and navy is both bigger and more advanced. They are also very experienced.

180,000. We fought alone; North Korea collapsed after the northward push in 1950. How many did the South Koreans lose though? When you factor in total UN losses, China comes out ahead; even if North Korean losses are factored in, we come out even.

Decades ago? Did China's relative strength increase, or decrease, during these 60 years? In 1950 the US was at the zenith of power. It had just defeated Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan simultaneously, had huge industries, the most powerful finance, largest gold reserves, largest market and had the only mass deliverable atomic bomb. China had a per capita GDP half of Zimbabwe.

Experienced? In bombing civilians. In fighting a war against another major nation state?

The US air force is not going to bring the whole air force to attack China. It cannot. There will be about half of the planes either on operational deployment elsewhere to make sure Russia or Iran do not take the opportunity to sieze the initiative in the Caucasus or Persian Gulf, or on maintanance. The US navy also cannot, for the same reason, deploy all 11 carriers against. China. I'm assuming they'll deploy 8 at max.

Was the US Air Force bigger and more experienced than the Vietnamese Air Force? Yet, why were only a few hundred Vietnamese planes downed, vs. 3000+ US planes and 5000+ US helicopters? The US is highly experienced in bombing civilians. Not so much in fighing large scale wars of attrition against even states the size of Vietnam.

 

[CardSharp]

Sorry I wasn't insulting you, I genuinely did not know why you were talking about poor people.
The US will not attack for no reason, if you do not threaten it militarily then it will not invade. It's own people will see to that.

The US has strategic interests everywhere in the world, (including right off of China's shore). This brings the two into real conflict. This is why we are seeing a verbal game between the worlds largest intertwined powers.

 

[below_freezing]

Sorry I wasn't insulting you, I genuinely did not know why you were talking about poor people.
The US will not attack for no reason, if you do not threaten it militarily then it will not invade. It's own people will see to that.

Nope the US attacks countries militarily for no reason all the time. Ok sorry, it has a reason: profit, greed and geopolitical control. It is our military's job to see that it doesn't happen to us. We have been nuclear blackmailed by the US in the 1950's and 60's as well. That backfired; we got the A-bomb 5th, but the H-bomb 4th, beating France. Your regime's analysts were amazed about that, as they predicted the A-bomb wouldn't be ready by the time our H-bomb actually was.

There is nothing the US can do to militarily coerce China to do anything today. It has pushed us into a corner in the 90's, and it was a wakeup call the same way nuclear blackmail was a wakeup call in the 50's. That's why we spent the decade building the J-10, J-20, KJ-2000, Type 052B/C, 051B/C, 054/A, DF-21, etc.

 

[888jamie888]

180,000 dead. Around another 50,000 POW or MIA.
In terms of strength. The UN had around 5,000 less than you and NK.
The UN lost around 800,000. You lost around 1.5million.
It was not even.

had huge industries, the most powerful finance, largest gold reserves, largest market and had the only mass deliverable atomic bomb. China had a per capita GDP half of Zimbabwe.

Does the US still not have these things? The only market bigger is the EU which is not relevant here and if it is it would side with the US.
Others may have the A-bomb now, but the US still has the most.

Experienced? In bombing civilians. In fighting a war against another major nation state?

As you said they beat Japan and Germany.They demolished Iraq in days. They will win any conventional war.
I don't know if you have seen but the US also has 1000's of planes in storage which can be ready in days.
And how may carriers does China have?

 

[888jamie888]

Which countries?