U.S. unlikely to back down on Taiwan issue

[gambit]

As if the CPUSA has not been persecuted by the US government. Heard of the Smith Act or Dennis vs the US?

If there is a PERSISTENT program of persecution by the US government against the CPUSA, then why is the CPUSA still active ?

I've already given you the information on FLG, that is foreign funded and lead, and it advocates the overthrowning of the Chinese government. That is mild to you?

Fine...Then you can PROSECUTE the group under a law or some laws. But prosecution is not the same as persecution. Prosecution is generally law based, meaning the target, be it a person or a group, is at least alleged if not outright proven to have violated a law or some laws. Persecution is ideologically motivated independent of any law.

But the core of the debate remains: That do YOU support the right and freedom of the people to organize themselves in opposition political parties without fear of persecution by the government ?

You avoid the question because you know what a hypocrite you are: A Chinese living in the US under the protection of the US Constitution that grants him rights and freedoms that he will not hesitate to righteously declare to be sacrosanct while advocating the denial of those same rights and freedoms to Chinese living in China.

 

[TaiShang]

As if the CPUSA has not been persecuted by the US government. Heard of the Smith Act or Dennis vs the US?
I've already given you the information on FLG, that is foreign funded and lead, and it advocates the overthrowning of the Chinese government. That is mild to you?

FLG should be happy that they are not "persecuted" like this (Because they are foreign-funded agents/terrorists, as well):

 

[Zsari]

If there is a PERSISTENT program of persecution by the US government against the CPUSA, then why is the CPUSA still active ?

CPUSA has long been marginalized and gutted that there is no longer a need for persecution to presist. For god sake, CPUSA endorses Obama today, that's a million miles away from what FLG is advocating in China. Do you know that there is a "KMT" operating in China today? Pretty much in a same role as the CPUSA, offering an ideological opposition that is symbolic at best. I mean if CPUSA advocates communist revolution in the US which it actually never did, you betcha there will be alot of tax evasion charges filed against its leadership.

You avoid the question because you know what a hypocrite you are: A Chinese living in the US under the protection of the US Constitution that grants him rights and freedoms that he will not hesitate to righteously declare to be sacrosanct while advocating the denial of those same rights and freedoms to Chinese living in China.

You see me ever shouting for the overthrown of the US government? If any group does, then they will be presecuted in the US or in China, and I have no problem with that. Your ideological drivel is getting old, for there is a limit to everything.

 

[gambit]

CPUSA has long been marginalized and gutted that there is no longer a need for persecution to presist.

Communism is the political expression of Marxism. The large majority of the American public seen how communism ran their countries and would have no part of it in the US, other than tolerate its members' existence solely out of Constitutional principles. If you are implying that somehow what the US government did to American communists over 50 yrs ago have imprinted into the collective American psyche that communism is bad simply because the US government say so, you could not be more wrong. If American communism have been marginalized, it is because of the Soviet Union and your China that made it possible. Not the US government.

For god sake, CPUSA endorses Obama today,...

Who else could they endorse ? McCain or Romney ?

Despite what Obama said about himself, he is a Socialist to the core and Socialism and Communism are brothers. Not cousins, but brothers and the only thing that separate Socialism and Communism is the blood line, meaning when someone spills blood to prevent political challenges. So who else can American communists endorse ?

Do you know that there is a "KMT" operating in China today? Pretty much in a same role as the CPUSA, offering an ideological opposition that is symbolic at best.

If the PRC tolerate the presence of the KMT on home soil, it is because of Taiwan, a valuable piece of economic and military territory. Sure as the sky is blue NOT because political engagements are constitutionally enshrined and respected.

I mean if CPUSA advocates communist revolution in the US which it actually never did, you betcha there will be alot of tax evasion charges filed against its leadership.

Pleeeeeeeeease...Viktor Suvurov, a pseudonym, wrote a series of books about the GRU that details how American communism was infiltrated by the GRU and the KGB. And of course, public advocacy of violent revolution should be avoided but never discouraged among anyone foolish enough to engage in violence under the guise of anti-war protests during the 1970s, which I lived thru. On the flightline of RAF Upper Heyford, I read the entire series.

Viktor Suvorov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Take your propaganda back to China.

You see me ever shouting for the overthrown of the US government? If any group does, then they will be presecuted in the US or in China, and I have no problem with that. Your ideological drivel is getting old, for there is a limit to everything.

You are STILL avoiding the core question, which I fully expected. It does not matter what you may say against or for US. It only matter what you believe.

Q: Do YOU believe in the inherent and non-debatable right and freedom of the people to form opposition political parties ?

Simple enough.

FLG should be happy that they are not "persecuted" like this (Because they are foreign-funded agents/terrorists, as well):

How do you know they were not ? Because the details were never published by any official government media ? One of the most hilarious explanation that the Chinese secret police gave for a prisoner's death was of 'acute acne'. Basically, while alone in prison, he popped too many zits and bled to death.

 

[Zsari]

Who else could they endorse ? McCain or Romney ?

Despite what Obama said about himself, he is a Socialist to the core and Socialism and Communism are brothers. Not cousins, but brothers and the only thing that separate Socialism and Communism is the blood line, meaning when someone spills blood to prevent political challenges. So who else can American communists endorse ? .

What kind of revolutionary / anti-government forces endorses candidate within the existing system? You still miss the whole point that CPUSA plays within the system not outside of the system.

If the PRC tolerate the presence of the KMT on home soil, it is because of Taiwan, a valuable piece of economic and military territory. Sure as the sky is blue NOT because political engagements are constitutionally enshrined and respected..

PRC's KMT has nothing to do with KMT on Taiwan, as they have long splitted during the civil war. Yes, KMT splits number of times during its short history. But in any case, you are missing the whole point again that government can and will tolerate opposition parties that's operates within and are constrained by the existing system.

You are STILL avoiding the core question, which I fully expected. It does not matter what you may say against or for US. It only matter what you believe.

Q: Do YOU believe in the inherent and non-debatable right and freedom of the people to form opposition political parties ?.

I'm telling you how the world works, not how the world suppose to work in your idealistic ways. I believe everything is debatable, and there is no absolute but rather everything is in a shades of gray, only differs in degree. Taking it too far, and you will no longer enjoy your rights & freedom, as it should be.

 

[USAHawk785]

@Pakistanisage ,

The preservation of Taiwan's independence is a major itinerary of the US Navy's Pacific Commmand, in conjunction with the defense of Japan and South Korea. During the 1995-1996 and 2000 Taiwan Strait Crisis, the Navy deployed 2 carrier battle groups into the region, testament to the United States' resolve to defend Taiwan. This current Administration's forward policy, namely the redeployment of several battle groups into the pacific serves not only as a military praxis, but a geopolitical communique between regional powers of the United States' presence as a guarantor of regional stability and peace.

With the new defense pact signed between the United States and the Philippines, there will be significant amount (and number) of American air, naval, and ground forces in the Philippines, which will bolster and expedite necessary military deployment in around our assets in Japan, Korea, Taiwan and the Philippine Islands. Taiwan, is an essential piece and will continue to be a significant partner, indefinitely.


Respectfully I remain,
USAHawk

 

[Zsari]

Say Goodbye to Taiwan

 

[gambit]

I'm telling you how the world works, not how the world suppose to work in your idealistic ways. I believe everything is debatable, and there is no absolute but rather everything is in a shades of gray, only differs in degree. Taking it too far, and you will no longer enjoy your rights & freedom, as it should be.

So here are the shades of grays Chinese in America, not Chinese-Americans, lives their lives...

- They lives in the US and demands Constitutional rights and freedoms because those rights and freedoms are inherent and non-debatable as described by the US Constitution, but they support an intolerant authoritarian government for China and Chinese citizens.

- They do not have the courage TODAY to say 'It is morally right to resist Communism' as how the US stood during the Cold War, but they support an intolerant authoritarian government in China over Chinese citizens that uses Marxism as cover and leading ideology while the leaders of this government are as capitalistic and as 1% elitist as any Western robber barons.

- They denounce Western racism as they live among guilt racked Americans about historical racism but have no problems with the racism in China that is the to the same degree as that of Imperial Japan of WW II, as we usually see from the Chinese members on this forum, often about other Asian women and how the 'inferior' Asians are fit to serve only as serfs, if not slaves, to Chinese.

Retreat into the stale argument as to how the world works without taking a moral stand on why the world should work a certain way is a sign of a moral coward.

 

[USAHawk785]

@gambit ,

It is rather unfortunate that prejudice is still rampant in some societies. I don't want to go of topic, but the medical guy within me can't help but explore the psychological intricacies of cultural racism. I mean, there are some behaviorist specialists that I know of currently doing their Ph.D dissertation(s) on multivariates that predispose or influence prejudice amongst ethnic groups. One can't help whether or not racism , prejudice is an innate human tendency , a remnant of cultures that profess xenophobia. In either case, it is , indeed, unfortunate as you have said that some members in this forum hold negative views on other members simply based on their ethnic and racial background.

For me, judgment should not be based on one's color, or origin, but by the quality of that person's character.


I remain,

 

[Zsari]

So here are the shades of grays Chinese in America, not Chinese-Americans, lives their lives...

- They lives in the US and demands Constitutional rights and freedoms because those rights and freedoms are inherent and non-debatable as described by the US Constitution, but they support an intolerant authoritarian government for China and Chinese citizens.

- They do not have the courage TODAY to say 'It is morally right to resist Communism' as how the US stood during the Cold War, but they support an intolerant authoritarian government in China over Chinese citizens that uses Marxism as cover and leading ideology while the leaders of this government are as capitalistic and as 1% elitist as any Western robber barons.

- They denounce Western racism as they live among guilt racked Americans about historical racism but have no problems with the racism in China that is the to the same degree as that of Imperial Japan of WW II, as we usually see from the Chinese members on this forum, often about other Asian women and how the 'inferior' Asians are fit to serve only as serfs, if not slaves, to Chinese.

Funny. I have yet to demand anything from the US government. If things goes badly for Chinese here, ie the return of Chinese exclusionary act or the japanese internment camps, I'll just head elsewhere.
I neither support nor am I against communism as ideology is not meaningful, and like I said before no country abide by their supposed ideology in any case. The cold war is a power struggle between the USA & the USSR, and the supposed confrontation of ideology is again for public consumption only. You are way too caught up in your ideological dogmatism, rather a victim of the propaganda war that's waged during the era of the cold war.
How did racism get into this conversation is beyond me. I do not represent the entire Chinese population or anyone else on this forum, chinese or not, so do not put anyone else's word into my mouth. Your "us vs them" mentality is rather uncharacteristics of an American, or so they say.

 

[Peter]

TaiShang said: ↑
Given that the two parties are basically funded by the wealthy, it is indirect-fascism, at best.

Gambit said: ↑
Bullshit. You got no hard data to back that up. Any American can donate to any party he want, including the CPUSA. It is the burden of the political party to convince the people to fund its existence.

I said:
There is no way to tell if every vote is correctly counted in the US Presidential election.

 

[gambit]

Funny. I have yet to demand anything from the US government. If things goes badly for Chinese here, ie the return of Chinese exclusionary act or the japanese internment camps, I'll just head elsewhere.

You missed the point -- completely.

If you are in China and the secret police shows up at your door, you will do as all sheeple do: meekly obey.

On the other hand, since you are living in the US, if you obey the police, it will be because you do not want any physical altercation at the moment of arrest, but once you are secured, you will not hesitate to assert your 5th Amendment right, note if the police properly Mirandize you or not, and demand the police to provide you with a lawyer. Do you really think in China, it is the responsibility of the police to warn you that you should shut up lest you incriminate yourself ?

The demands are always available for you to claim as you see fit. That was the point.

I neither support nor am I against communism as ideology is not meaningful, and like I said before no country abide by their supposed ideology in any case. The cold war is a power struggle between the USA & the USSR, and the supposed confrontation of ideology is again for public consumption only. You are way too caught up in your ideological dogmatism, rather a victim of the propaganda war that's waged during the era of the cold war.

Utter nonsense. But if you want to talk about propaganda, care to look up what your China did back then ?

Your China practiced Marxism thru communism at best as possible. Were not families broken up where husbands are forbidden to see their wives and their children became wards of the State and everyone had to work in collective farms ? Were there no red books filled with drivel from Mao that everyone had to possess else they would be placed under suspicion ?

You neither support nor oppose communism, that made you an amoral person, same as your China's leadership. Of course, given what we know today of the spectacular failure that was Marxist China, you have no choice but to resort to straddling the fence. Communism is a sorry chapter in China's history, so pathetic that China blindly adopted Lysenkoism, resulting in famine in a land and country rich of agricultural history. You are afraid to condemn communism because you do not want to admit your China was spectacularly wrong.

How did racism get into this conversation is beyond me. I do not represent the entire Chinese population or anyone else on this forum, chinese or not, so do not put anyone else's word into my mouth. Your "us vs them" mentality is rather uncharacteristics of an American, or so they say.

I only bring it up to demonstrate another gray area you advised I should live in. But am glad I have enough courage to take a stand.

 

[Zsari]

If you are in China and the secret police shows up at your door, you will do as all sheeple do: meekly obey.

On the other hand, since you are living in the US, if you obey the police, it will be because you do not want any physical altercation at the moment of arrest, but once you are secured, you will not hesitate to assert your 5th Amendment right, note if the police properly Mirandize you or not, and demand the police to provide you with a lawyer. Do you really think in China, it is the responsibility of the police to warn you that you should shut up lest you incriminate yourself ?

Why would secret police showup at my door? This is entering into the realm of bizaare. So if the Chinese secret police shows up at my door, then comparatively, the CIA would show up at your door, send you on a plane to Egypt or Poland and then you will do as all sheeple do: meekly obey?

Your China practiced Marxism thru communism at best as possible. Were not families broken up where husbands are forbidden to see their wives and their children became wards of the State and everyone had to work in collective farms ? Were there no red books filled with drivel from Mao that everyone had to possess else they would be placed under suspicion ?

If as you claimed that you have studied poli-sci in college, then you should have read Marx's communist manifesto, and you'll find what's practiced in China has nothing to do with Marxism or communism. The last thing Marx would imagine is a poor agrarian society going communism, for there isn't even a developed capitalism there to speak of. Collective farms? Now that would really baffle Marx. True communism is something that you can only read in like Startrek where human development has pass the stage of material possession; never gonna happen. Like I've said repeatly, ideology are used to motivate and intoxicate the mass, never for ruling the mass.

 

[TaiShang]

Gambit is an old fella his head is frozen in the old glorious days of the US. Talking to him and trying to reasoning with him like talking to a washing machine: It in the end makes your head dizzy and you end up with nothing tangible other than waste of time.

He is probably the greatest ideologue this forum has ever seen. I think he can be a second coming of Joseph McCarthy.