Typhoon, Rafale no match for China’s J-20

[Wet Shirt Contest]

madam!!
as wet shirt has already posted in his post that RAFALE is an omni role fighter which has electronic attack capablity as it's secondary role yes EA 18 is specially designed for Electronic attack but that doesnt mean Rafale cant do Escort jamming ,SEAD as this capabilty has been proven in LIBYA .
Well Difference u can say that Spectra EW itself can itself cue it's A-G missile which EA 18 ew pods cant do ,they only jam the radars

You Got Me Wrong, Read My Post carefully, I didn't said Rafale is capable of electronic attack or Escort Jamming. Rafale can do self protection jamming is intended to Deny a Single Hostile Tracking Radar Purely For Defensive Purpose! It's a Omnirole fighter Not A Electronic Attack Fighter.

Dr , you might be quite surprised to know that EA18 has capability to hide/ save many aircrafts where as Rafale cant . Growler is generation ahead interms of electronics , radar , situational awareness and sensor suite

Wrong! You are Bit Confused!
In terms Of Situational Awareness And Sensor Suit Rafale is as good as Growler.

 

[dbc]

Wrong! You are Bit Confused!
In terms Of Situational Awareness And Sensor Suit Rafale is as good as Growler.

I'm certain a lot of Indians want to believe you but here is a clue for you. The GIB in a Rafale is a WSO (Weapons Systems Officer) the GIB sometimes affectionately called 'trunk monkey' in a Growler is a ECMO (Electronic Counter-Measures Officer). I don't want to dispute Rafale's many imagined capabilities and offend its Indian fans, after all what you don't know can't hurt you - can it?

 

[patriot_indian]

no``no``sir
J-20 is designed to 'challenge' IAF's Mig-21s``just like god made indians to entertain human beings

hahah accept that j 20 is of tht standard only

 

[tvsram1992]

Wrong! You are Bit Confused!
In terms Of Situational Awareness And Sensor Suit Rafale is as good as Growler.

Yes you are wrong Growler uses AN/APG-79 AESA , your two points proved out to be wrong . Rafale radar can still be jammed .

yes i know i am not saying rafale's Electronic jamming is going to be more powerful than EA -18 as it is a specialist EA aircraft It carries 5 external jamming pods (AN/ALQ-218 wideband receivers on the wingtips, and ALQ-99 high and low-band tactical jamming pods )for that special purpose only
but it had known to create some problems in that plane starting from interference with the performance of AESA radar frequent failures along with performance of that plane .

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d10388sp.pdf
BTW united states has started development for NGJ : next generation jammer for replacing ALQ -99 which is truly ahead of ALQ-99 .I have posted a thread on it. u can see

Reagarding gen ahead factor to Rafale i think it has a better AESA radar ,& more powerful jamming suite thats it nothing else

but what rafale has better avionics ,sensor fusion & ofcourse better COTS processor many more there i would restrict it to these

HOW??

1) FSO : capable of detecting IR detection of targets from 130km
Seeker gets on track

2) RECO NG:for strategic & tactical reconaissance
AREOS

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fi...dacteur/Defence/Rafale/Fox_Three_N_14_UK2.pdf

3)DAMOCLES LASER DESIGNATION POD:for laser designation of target
DAMOCLES LASER DESIGNATION POD:

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fileadmin/user_upload/redacteur/Defence/Rafale/FoxThree_Fox15.pdf

4)INCREDIBLE SENSOR FUSION
SENSOR FUSION:

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fi...teur/AUTRES_DOCS/Fox_three/Fox_Three_nr_6.pdf

5) 5th gen system core
RAFALE'S 5TH GEN SYSTEM CORE

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fi.../Defence/2000/Mirage_2000-9_special_issue.pdf


THALES MPDU IN RAFALE

Avionics Magazine :: Serious Squall


6) last but not the least SPECTRA

http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fi...teur/AUTRES_DOCS/Fox_three/Fox_Three_nr_1.pdf
well i know it's capabilty would always be inferior to EA 18 growler but one thing it can do which EA 18 growler's (AN/ALQ-218 wideband receivers on the wingtips, and ALQ-99 high and low-band tactical jamming pods ) cant do that is cueing AAM & AGM
with the help of EW suite only .

rest many other factor can be made but not required here

you saw what deathbychocolate said . I dont deny what all you said , just i said Growler can escort 5 mkis where as it would be difficult for Rafale to save itself (leave about escort) , when enemy uses aircrafts with AESA .

 

[moodyjat]

Watz the catch ?

J20 is still in conception as PAK-FA , both have induction time around 2017...

We have a fair share of 200 of them as of Russia ...

lets leave 5th gen on 2017, and let Rafael scramble the Indian skies

 

[DrSomnath999]

You Got Me Wrong, Read My Post carefully, I didn't said Rafale is capable of electronic attack or Escort Jamming. Rafale can do self protection jamming is intended to Deny a Single Hostile Tracking Radar Purely For Defensive Purpose! It's a Omnirole fighter Not A Electronic Attack Fighter.

sorry about that
Human error(LOLLZ)

 

[DrSomnath999]

Yes you are wrong Growler uses AN/APG-79 AESA , your two points proved out to be wrong . Rafale radar can still be jammed .

Well u didnt get what he said ,he never said RBE 2 AESA radar cant be jammed or is superior to APG 79 aesa radar .But those
two points are different thing

you saw what deathbychocolate said .

madam !!
sometimes seduces us with her post take it like a sweet chocolate
&

I dont deny what all you said , just i said Growler can escort 5 mkis where as it would be difficult for Rafale to save itself (leave about escort) , when enemy uses aircrafts with AESA .

well i have never denied that yes i did a mistake by calling rafale to do escort jamming that's a mistake from my side i admitted
it earliaer in my post

I'm certain a lot of Indians want to believe you but here is a clue for you. The GIB in a Rafale is a WSO (Weapons Systems Officer) the GIB sometimes affectionately called 'trunk monkey' in a Growler is a ECMO (Electronic Counter-Measures Officer). I don't want to dispute Rafale's many imagined capabilities and offend its Indian fans, after all what you don't know can't hurt you - can it?

That so nice of u madam .

 

[Wet Shirt Contest]

Yes you are wrong Growler uses AN/APG-79 AESA , your two points proved out to be wrong . Rafale radar can still be jammed .


you saw what deathbychocolate said . I dont deny what all you said , just i said Growler can escort 5 mkis where as it would be difficult for Rafale to save itself (leave about escort) , when enemy uses aircrafts with AESA .

That was Not A Proper Reply, YOU Don't Know what You are talking about

Do You Even Know when we Use Term "Generation Ahead" ??

I'll save This argument for now! 1st enlighten Me How And why You Tagged Growler 'Generation Ahead' In terms of Situational Awarness , Sensor Suit. !!!!

I am Not Denying the capabilities of Growler!

 

[Tracy]

I'm certain a lot of Indians want to believe you but here is a clue for you. The GIB in a Rafale is a WSO (Weapons Systems Officer) the GIB sometimes affectionately called 'trunk monkey' in a Growler is a ECMO (Electronic Counter-Measures Officer). I don't want to dispute Rafale's many imagined capabilities and offend its Indian fans, after all what you don't know can't hurt you - can it?

@1992
both rafale and EA-18G are equipped with aesa radar.
but mounting more jammers make's EA18 generation ahead in terms of situational awarness, s-suit ?

am i missing anything ?

 

[tvsram1992]

Well u didnt get what he said ,he never said RBE 2 AESA radar cant be jammed or is superior to APG 79 aesa radar .But those
two points are different thing

He said

"In terms Of Situational Awareness And Sensor Suit Rafale is as good as Growler.
"

Btw Rafale uses PESA as of now .

madam !!
sometimes seduces us with her post take it like a sweet chocolate
&

is he she ? err.. i mean is she a girl you seem to be crazy

well i have never denied that yes i did a mistake by calling rafale to do escort jamming that's a mistake from my side i admitted
it earliaer in my post

seen you realized after i replied to you

 

[tvsram1992]

@1992
both rafale and EA-18G are equipped with aesa radar.
but mounting more jammers make's EA18 generation ahead in terms of situational awarness, s-suit ?

am i missing anything ?

That was Not A Proper Reply, YOU Don't Know what You are talking about
Do You Even Know when we Use Term "Generation Ahead" ??
I'll save This argument for now! 1st enlighten Me How And why You Tagged Growler 'Generation Ahead' In terms of Situational Awarness , Sensor Suit. !!!!
I am Not Denying the capabilities of Growler!

Thought you would be smart enough to know the details when i pointed out the name of radar .
Well EA18G uses AN/APG-79 radar , you knew to date only US operates AESA radars that are must for 5th gen fighters . So its generation ahead in terms of radar .

The AN/APG-79 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar is a new development for the United States Navy's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and EA-18G Growler aircraft, providing a high level of aircrew situational awareness. The beam of the AESA radar provides nearly instantaneous track updates and multi-target tracking capability. The APG-79 AESA uses transmit/receive (TR) modules populated with GaAs MMICs.

where as Rafale still uses traditional Thales RBE2 passive electronically scanned multi-mode radar.
Now no need to save your argument .
Growler is a special EW aircraft where as Rafale being multirole has its parameters inferior to Growler . Growler being a USN Fighter will be equipped with best of US data links so that it can communicate with AWACS,Friendly aircrafts and base station . Growlers radar is nearly impossible to jam where as Rafales one being PESA can be jammed leave about using it as escort every time Rafale can do missions over Libya but it cant dare to enter Iran where as Growlers will be the front liners with main fighters in case US uses its aircraft carriers to attack Iran .
ps : im not saying rafale is bad but its inferior to growler in the points which i mentioned .

check out what you said

Wrong! You are Bit Confused!
In terms Of Situational Awareness And Sensor Suit Rafale is as good as Growler.

Its very clear Growler is far ahead .

 

[DrSomnath999]

He said
Btw Rafale uses PESA as of now .

no u r wrong 'Situational Awareness And Sensor Suite" those are not related to AESA jamming those are 2 different things
IT was for RAFALE F2 version now RBE 2 AESA radar has been recenlty in production & it has been deliverd it's an old news .I thought u must have been knowing it .

is he she ? err.. i mean is she a girl you seem to be crazy

WTH
u dont know that till now .LOLLZ
she is a beautiful lady military professional

 

[tvsram1992]

no u r wrong 'Situational Awareness And Sensor Suite" those are not related to AESA jamming those are 2 different things
IT was for RAFALE F2 version now RBE 2 AESA radar has been recenlty in production & it has been deliverd it's an old news .I thought u must have been knowing it .

Doctor , you missed my point . I mentioned situational awareness in a separate point Radar has weight in sensor and situational awareness . Please go through wiki ....

WTH
u dont know that till now .LOLLZ
she is a beautiful lady military professional

dont know , how do you she is beautiful ?

 

[sancho]

after all what you don't know can't hurt you - can it?

Of course and you must know it very well, because your lack of knowledge and made up infos were exposed here several times!

In terms of Situational Awareness the Rafale is clearly ahead of the F18SH, no matter which version we are talking simply by the fact that it offers way more sensors and sensor informations that a fused in a single picture:

Sensors Rafale / F18SH

Radar - RBE can track 40 targets at the same time / APG 79 can track 20 targets at the same time
IRST - Yes / No (pod mounted version under development, internal only for future upgrades)
TV channel - Yes / No
RWR - Yes / Yes
LWR - Yes / No (only for future upgrades)
IR MAW - Yes / No (only for future upgrades)

When you add that most of these Rafale sensors offers 360° or even spherical detection with high precision and at long ranges, any unbiased person understands the SA advantages a Rafale offers. However, in terms of jamming capability the Growler is obviously ahead of Rafale, because it was specifically developed for this and for certain roles only, with dedicated external jammers. Rafales SPECTRA on the other side was developed for more than jamming and as an internal feature for all versions and as such an internal systems it is currently one of the most advanced and superior to the counterparts the normal Super Hornets has. That's why the US still uses dedicated fighters in SEAD or EA roles, why France can use any Rafale in the same and why a more Rafale costs more than a normal F18SH.
SPECTRAS AESA jamming capabilities are very advanced and capable and IF IAF would want, they can easily add French or Israeli external high power jammers and would have even more capable EA options than the F18 Growler, so that's not really an issue anyway. Not to mention that the future potential looks pretty good in this field for the Rafale too, GaN AESA modules with conformal arrays around the airframe for long range detection and powerful jamming, only US 5th gen fighters will offer similar techs!

 

[dbc]

The charge of the French cheerleader begins . I believe you are aware of the statement made by the then IAF Air Chief Naik following the down select of EF and Rafale. Let me refresh your memory and put a stop to the 50 cent per post defense of your French patron.

The Air Chief observed that admittedly, the US had the best of the combat radars, weapons and systems. But then, each of the six contenders had given in writing that they would match the IAF requirements, including those for systems to be sourced from the US.

Indian military aviation enthusiast and members of PDF you have a choice believe Sancho OR the former IAF ACM.

..:: India Strategic ::.. India set to decide big military aircraft deals

Of course and you must know it very well, because your lack of knowledge and made up infos were exposed here several times!

In terms of Situational Awareness the Rafale is clearly ahead of the F18SH, no matter which version we are talking simply by the fact that it offers way more sensors and sensor informations that a fused in a single picture:

Sensors Rafale / F18SH

Radar - RBE can track 40 targets at the same time / APG 79 can track 20 targets at the same time
IRST - Yes / No (pod mounted version under development, internal only for future upgrades)
TV channel - Yes / No
RWR - Yes / Yes
LWR - Yes / No (only for future upgrades)
IR MAW - Yes / No (only for future upgrades)

When you add that most of these Rafale sensors offers 360° or even spherical detection with high precision and at long ranges, any unbiased person understands the SA advantages a Rafale offers. However, in terms of jamming capability the Growler is obviously ahead of Rafale, because it was specifically developed for this and for certain roles only, with dedicated external jammers. Rafales SPECTRA on the other side was developed for more than jamming and as an internal feature for all versions and as such an internal systems it is currently one of the most advanced and superior to the counterparts the normal Super Hornets has. That's why the US still uses dedicated fighters in SEAD or EA roles, why France can use any Rafale in the same and why a more Rafale costs more than a normal F18SH.
SPECTRAS AESA jamming capabilities are very advanced and capable and IF IAF would want, they can easily add French or Israeli external high power jammers and would have even more capable EA options than the F18 Growler, so that's not really an issue anyway. Not to mention that the future potential looks pretty good in this field for the Rafale too, GaN AESA modules with conformal arrays around the airframe for long range detection and powerful jamming, only US 5th gen fighters will offer similar techs!