Twist in MMRCA

[IND151]

we should go for rafale. no mk 9 is needed.

 

[PRACTICAL PATRIOT]

with these 80 mirages , the MMRCA figures could reduce to 60+20 , and most probably the MIG-35...

i think you havent read my post well
so repeating it for you
if these birds come for price of 20-25 mmrca birds then we can off course afford them along with 126 MMRCA so no need to cancel or reduce this deal we can just cancel +74 factor
well i dont see this as a twist in mmrca
basicallt IAF wont cancel MMRCA after coming so far , it will definately hamper our image in defence world plus if we look at planes which are in interest of IAF are much superior than mirages so IAF definitely wants more advanced planes with TOT through this MMRCA deal
so there is no way this old mirages can REPLACE MMRCA.

having said so
we can still buy this 60-80 planes if they have enough life(15-20years) left and coming for a price of 20-25 mmrca birds becuase
1. IAF currently operates mirages so experience in operating them already exists with good maintainance infrastructure hence no extra cost for it
2.this birds can replace all MIG 21 except those with BISON upgrade right away
3. since this planes are already there so there wont be any time wasted in procurement of them once deal is finalised like time needed for construction of aircraft's after ordering them.

 

[IND151]

i think you havent read my post well
so repeating it for you
if these birds come for price of 20-25 mmrca birds then we can off course afford them along with 126 MMRCA so no need to cancel or reduce this deal we can just cancel +74 factor
well i dont see this as a twist in mmrca
basicallt IAF wont cancel MMRCA after coming so far , it will definately hamper our image in defence world plus if we look at planes which are in interest of IAF are much superior than mirages so IAF definitely wants more advanced planes with TOT through this MMRCA deal
so there is no way this old mirages can REPLACE MMRCA.

having said so
we can still buy this 60-80 planes if they have enough life(15-20years) left and coming for a price of 20-25 mmrca birds becuase
1. IAF currently operates mirages so experience in operating them already exists with good maintainance infrastructure hence no extra cost for it
2.this birds can replace all MIG 21 except those with BISON upgrade right away
3. since this planes are already there so there wont be any time wasted in procurement of them once deal is finalised like time needed for construction of aircraft's after ordering them.

i guess you are right. but rafale is better than mirage 2000.we should spend wisely.

 

[conworldus]

you are obssesed with religion ?

anyway , what's your religion , i would surely like to return the faver one day...

And these are your Hindu spelling?

 

[luckyyy]

And these are your Hindu spelling?

go do some religious teaching , .....there will be more takers of your religion based trolls ...

 

[luckyyy]

.................................

 

[MAFIAN GOD]

And these are your Hindu spelling?

This guy should be banned.

 

[luckyyy]

This guy should be banned.

he is just showing his frustration over IAF getting those mirages...
no offence done in showing your emotions...leave him

 

[luckyyy]

the artical suggest that IAF is in a delema to upgrade their mirage or to buy these second hand mirage...most probably the cost is almost same , in 2006 qatar offer at $67ml which was rejected , could be now the price has reduce to a level of $45ml which the franch asking to upgrade..
after buying these second hand mirages , there is certainly no hurry to buy MMRCA , or most probably just select MIG-35 in reduce number to get the tendor over....

 

[angeldemon_007]

in this case i think PAF should have replaced their old mirages with UAE mirages ut dont know why PAF is counting much with one platform JF 17

So Pak AF is thinking of replacing old fighters with jf17 ?? How many platforms are they thinking of operating, say from 2015 onwards ??/

And these are your Hindu spelling?
Hey buddy, if you don't know anything technical, then no need to prove to every1 that tu doosri paas hai....

 

[sancho]

if 68+12=80 second hand mirage comes immdiatly , the shortage of aircrafts in IAF will be fullfilled and IAF can afford to hang on for another 5-6 years to wait FGFA and MMRCA could be scraped....

Those Mirages can't come immediately, because those countries needs replacements too. So if we would buy them, they come oly squad by squad, everytime UAE, or Qatar gets a new squad.

but with 80 such second hand mirage , the initial order number for MMRCA could be reduce....

Which increases the costs for MMRCA again and reduced the benetifs we could get from the winning country.

i think IAF will get them in short time , france has also proposed india to have 40 rafale in flyaway condition from their own inventery so , they can give some 40 odd rafale to UAE...

Not really, they offered to fast induction of fighters besides their orders, because they can increase the production (which is runing at slow rate now) and the Rafale on order for us, is pretty much the version French forces gets too, while UAE wants major differents, which takes longer to develop and integrate them.



Bottom line is, IAF wanted second hand and new Mirage 2000-5s before in the initial MRCA competition, but that didn't happened, so now that is pretty much out as a possibility. It would take too long now, UAE probably asks for too much money and a reduction of MMRCA is not going to happen anyway (an increase is even more likely). They went for the upgrade, because the M2Ks are one of the most capable fighter in the fleet and will go for MMRCA as a more capable addition to them, LCA MK2 and MKI.

 

[luckyyy]

Those Mirages can't come immediately, because those countries needs replacements too. So if we would buy them, they come oly squad by squad, everytime UAE, or Qatar gets a new squad.
Which increases the costs for MMRCA again and reduced the benetifs we could get from the winning country.

no , i read in some old article that there is a clouse in MMRCA tendor which ask the compititier to quote the minimum number of aircratfs which they willing to suppy with fully obliging the other requirments of the tendor , also if you remenber US officials had express their concern that MMRCA tendor could be a split.....that's clearly means 126 is the maximun initial order number , not the lowest..

Not really, they offered to fast induction of fighters besides their orders, because they can increase the production (which is runing at slow rate now) and the Rafale on order for us, is pretty much the version French forces gets too, while UAE wants major differents, which takes longer to develop and integrate them.

franch can still give them rafale from their own inventery and gradually replace them with newer once ...

Bottom line is, IAF wanted second hand and new Mirage 2000-5s before in the initial MRCA competition, but that didn't happened, so now that is pretty much out as a possibility. It would take too long now, UAE probably asks for too much money and a reduction of MMRCA is not going to happen anyway (an increase is even more likely). They went for the upgrade, because the M2Ks are one of the most capable fighter in the fleet and will go for MMRCA as a more capable addition to them, LCA MK2 and MKI.

as per the article , UAE and Qatar has officially given a proposal , in a deplomatic terms a proposal only given after a formal talks and once it get sured that it will be considered , so in my view the matter of buying these mirage is very much on..

as far as money is concern , in 2006 , qatar asked for 67ml whereas MoD only offered 37ml....it's 2011 coming , so in my view price would be very much lowered and will be in MoD grap , also , we must remember for UAE or Qatar , these fighter plane as as a status syblme as a luxery car , other wise they woun't be selling these fighter which are still good as new and latest , ....

 

[Dash]

Those Mirages can't come immediately, because those countries needs replacements too. So if we would buy them, they come oly squad by squad, everytime UAE, or Qatar gets a new squad.

This is a very valid point Sancho. I will agree with this completely. Atleast it will calm down certain people who think that Mirages can fill the gap quickly.

 

[sancho]

no , i read in some old article that there is a clouse in MMRCA tendor which ask the compititier to quote the minimum number of aircratfs which they willing to suppy with fully obliging the other requirments of the tendor , also if you remenber US officials had express their concern that MMRCA tendor could be a split.....that's clearly means 126 is the maximun initial order number , not the lowest..

MoD made clear that MMRCA will not be splitted and 126 is the minimum number, with more optinal and less numbers, means higher price, that's a simple fact.

franch can still give them rafale from their own inventery and gradually replace them with newer once ...

Come on, what you create here is totally unrealistic!
French should sell their own Rafales to UAE and UAE should accept a version of Rafale that they don't want, for the only reason that we can get the Mirage 2000-9?

as per the article , UAE and Qatar has officially given a proposal ....

Again, that's what you believe only, the point you are missing here is, that they don't have to sell them now and can wait till they get a replacement, but we have not the time to wait, till those fighters will be available. Qatar just recently stated that they invite all vendors for a competition to replace these M2Ks, so things will be delayed even further. UAE is even more difficult, because they have big wishes around the deal. So no, second hand M2Ks are not going to happen anymore.

 

[angeldemon_007]

I don't get it why you guys even discussing ??/ Nobody is buying these fighters. I don't remember any official news regarding this. There is no place for these fighters in IAf.
Also, the numbers in mmrca is not going to change. All problems, even related to offset policy are being solved. Now new offers will be submitted in Jan-Feb and then decision will be made in July 2011.
I hope decision is made by Jan 2011.