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Turkiye will totally change the rules of game in region: TF-X MMU Stealth Fighter

I would say that most jet engines build on a previous version.
You cannot take an existing engine and make it substantially better without
knowing what you are doing.
It is not the first Jet Engine, RM = Jet Engine, so it is their 12th Jet Engine.
The first were just license production, but from RM5 used in J-35 Draken, they have all gotten substantial modifications.
For Gripen E, the F414 was selected because it was already available.
The RM12E was a proposal that included a Swedish designed and produced turbine, with basically same performance, but it would not meet the time schedule. More expensive to buy, but 30-40% less maintenance cost.

The Gripen is on my "all time favorites" list for fighter jets and I have immense respect for Swedes for coming up with it. Like some of the countries in the region Sweden could've laid back, funneled the money to other needs and depended on the EU and US to defend her if any need arose - but instead she went far and beyond to develop one of the most sensible aircraft in recent times.

Having said that, modifying and engine is not the same as creating one. The first and foremost issue is that you're dependent on the US (specifically GE in this case) and also prone to sanctions (granted, this is very very unlikely).

The other issue of building on top of an existing IP and tech is that you won't be able to harvest the fruit of your labor and sell it to 3rd party customers. You've poured hard work on someone else's work and if a customer should arise guess who will be calling the shots? Considering the fact that jet engines are in high demand and low supply in todays world, this is a big bummer.

Lastly "if a need arises to create a jet engine we have the capacity to design one" is a fallacy. Nearly every country in the world with a modern(ish) education system and somewhat diverse production facilities is actually "technically" able to create a jet engine. The issue is it's immensely expensive AND takes a very long time (as you also need to create facilities the engine is dependent on).

So if the Swede's and the US had a major falling out OR if Sweden wanted some part of the delicious pie called world arms sales she would be a sitting duck for a considerable amount of time. Even if Sweden poured her resources into creating an engine NOW we're looking at 10+ years at a minimum (and that's being kind) until a product worthy of sale is on the market.

You won't be able to build on your current engine at all - since you don't hold the IP. You also don't have the infrastructure to build the %50 part you're now outsourcing because it's cheap.

So all Sweden has done right now is saved "some" money on a brand new engine in order to rush out her jet but sacrificed all those man hours and engineering feats on someone else's property.

Comparing this to the UK, the US, China, Russia and France isn't fair as all of these countries have the necessary facilities, know-how AND IP rights in place to create a Jet engine. The quality they can come up with can be debated but if all these nations decided to start work on a new engine and the Swedes wanted to compete you'd be in a HUGE disadvantage.

So now let's compare Sweden and Turkey in this regard. Right NOW the capabilities and engineering know-how on engine tech is comparable between both these powers. Both have capabilities to manufacture huge portions of some variants of US jet engines. Both countries also have valuable technology and know how on different parts of a jet engine. BUT Turkey has decided to go one step further, so we've put in motion a plan that will help us join the league of countries that can develop a modern jet engine.

Sweden also has the funds and capability to do this, but they've decided not to (for the time being).

Today we're more or less on equal footing, but today Turkey also decided to start sprinting while Sweden is still walking. A few years from now Turkey will eclipse Sweden in this capability.

Final note (I know, this has been a VERY long comment, sorry) - Turkey leapfrogging Sweden doesn't actually matter at all, as neither countries have any beef with one another, nor is there any likely scenario where they will. They also don't compete on arms exports. I just compared the two as we're in a topic about a Turkish fighter jet and you've been adamant to thump your chest about your own accomplishments here.

While I applaud the Swede's for their great work, we had to have a fact check.

Cheers!
 
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In the few cases where SAAB has sold New Gripens, the US has not blocked a single order.
They played foul when SAAB wanted to buy a US AESA radar, which resulted in SAAB codeveloping the Gripen E radar with Leonardo.
If they play foul on engines, then their attractiveness as a vendor for future products drops significantly, allowing European manufacturers a chance.
Sanctions is a double edge sword, when there are alternatives.
That said, the Gripen E has been sanctioned - by the U.K. when Brazil wanted to sell to Argentina. Since Argentina does not have any money, it does not really hurt.

I am not sure what the licensing deal with GE involves, but Sweden definitely had the rights to develop the RM12E and put it in a new aircraft.
 
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In the few cases where SAAB has sold New Gripens, the US has not blocked a single order.
They played foul when SAAB wanted to buy a US AESA radar, which resulted in SAAB codeveloping the Gripen E radar with Leonardo.
If they play foul on engines, then their attractiveness as a vendor for future products drops significantly, allowing European manufacturers a chance.
Sanctions is a double edge sword, when there are alternatives.
That said, the Gripen E has been sanctioned - by the U.K. when Brazil wanted to sell to Argentina. Since Argentina does not have any money, it does not really hurt.

Is Brazil still getting Gripen?
 
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I dont get the title. What and why would it change anything in the region?
 
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very good PPT work! It has many beautiful pics and incorporats a lot of state of the art aero tech

Yep!

And this is only a stepping stone for us! We've been working hard for years to gain the technology and know-how to produce stunning state of the art PPT powerpoint presentations. Our labor has borne fruit as you can see here. The next step is full on PSD graphics. Accoridng to the released roadmap by the SSB :

MS Paint >> PPT >>> PPTx (we are HERE!) >>> PSD >>> AfterFX AE >>> 3DSMax

Huge props to us.

Now having said that, GTFO, shoo.
 
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I would say that most jet engines build on a previous version.
You cannot take an existing engine and make it substantially better without
knowing what you are doing.
It is not the first Jet Engine, RM = Jet Engine, so it is their 12th Jet Engine.
The first were just license production, but from RM5 used in J-35 Draken, they have all gotten substantial modifications.
For Gripen E, the F414 was selected because it was already available.
The RM12E was a proposal that included a Swedish designed and produced turbine, with basically same performance, but it would not meet the time schedule. More expensive to buy, but 30-40% less maintenance cost.
I agree! Building from scratch is a much anticipated term. All of them work on the same physical principles. So; if we pursue each engine's predecessors all jet engines are roughly German jet engines.
 
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Come on , mention the reality is troll? Yes, GE needs Turkey money and America are a poor country that is worst off than Turkey. Christian American or British BAE will transfer 100% know how to Muslim Turkey and let Turkish take over western aviation with just USD1 billion. Will it make you happier in your dream? :lol:
Don't you have something serious to contribute in this thread or just cheap trolling which unfortunately is becoming a normal practice by Chinese members with which you are only ruining the reputation of the quality posters from the Chinese section? If you don't have anything serious to contribute in this thread than trolling without serious explanation then I would suggest you to leave.

BAE, RR and the United Kingdom at all have became a strategic partner in this project from which not only Turkey will benefit. Taking in mind of the worsening relationship with the EU and the internal problems of EU between countries like France and Italy the United Kingdom is searching for reliable partners. Its not a secret that the UK just like Turkey is in a search for next generation fighter jet solution which will contribute to the completing of the future vision for the Royal Air Forces. There is a huge possibility of TFX becoming the base platform for the next generation British fighter jet and such partnership would make the burden lighter for the both countries from financial and technological sides. There is big possibility that the TFX will end as 5th generation fighter jet which would be used both by the UK and Turkey, customized according to specific requirements of the user with the possibility of integrating domestic avionics packages and integration of national munitions without any limitation.
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Warning issued to two Chinese guys. One is here for making fun, while other is certainly trolling and derailing the thread with pissing contest. Stay away from off-topic posts in defense related strategic matters. Turkish section is not a proper place to perform childish activities for fanboys and trolls.
 
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Majority of these troll paratroopers dont know what the game is and how its played. So they cant comprehend how and why this project combined with other projects will change the rules of the game. And not just in the region, but will have impact on Africa, Balkans, Europe...

One just needs to browse thru the headlines of certan regional and western outlets when RTE and Turkey unviled its plans to build LHD platform with Navantia back in the day. That was about the time when western press started with that Sultan shit...
 
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Institutes from Dutch, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Swedish have attented into TF-X Industrial Day Cooperation meeting. The institutes seek cooperation opportunities with Turkish contractor to be a part of Tf-X program.

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