Turkiye will totally change the rules of game in region: TF-X MMU Stealth Fighter

[Saithan]

I for one am glad that this thread is not in ME section. I don't see the point of posting in a section that will lead to trolling. We got enough hotheaded members anyway

But now that we're talking about how long we've been underway, I was wondering if anyone has any insight to which universities that cooperate with TEI, TAI etc.

The reason I ask is because here in Denmark the private sector or public sector have cooperations with universities, and benefit greatly from the wast resources at the universities and likewise the young minds contribute and in return get scouted to the privat/public sector. This kind of cooperation also means certain universities become more attractive than others.

Also you'll need technicians who can repair and maintain the engines. I mean even Formula One has it's own university https://www.southampton.ac.uk/engineering/research/groups/performance-sports/motorsport/index.page

 

[UKBengali]

Sweden delivers parts to the F404, F414 used in the (Super) Hornets and the F-135 used in the F-35, so they are not indigenous.
Sweden made a major redesign of the F404 resulting in the RM12 which is much more reliable than the original. We certainly have the capability to design and produce fighter jet engines.
Whether it can be done cost effectively for internal use is another thing.

No Sweden cannot build the engine for Gripen.
It does not have enough experience to do so.

Only 5 countries right now can build jet fighter engines to world or near world class standards in order of tech:

1. US = UK with slight lead for US
Large gap
2. France
3. Russia
4. China

 

[UzaySan]

No Sweden cannot build the engine for Gripen.
It does not have enough experience to do so.

Only 5 countries right now can build jet fighter engines to world or near world class standards in order of tech:

1. US = UK with slight lead for US
Large gap
2. France
3. Russia
4. China

I think you underestimate Russian engines

 

[TheMightyBender]

I think you underestimate Russian engines

Reminds me of a story.
A while ago (i think it was during the cold war) the Russians were trying to get british engine technology every which way. So when a couple of Russian scientist/engineers were invited to visit rolls royce facilities, the KGB made them wear shoes with sticky bottoms. Russians then managed to reverse engineer British alloy technology from the scrap metal that stuck to the bottom of their shoes.

 

[Mahmood-ur-Rehman]

sir is there any news about pakistan involvement in this project?

Pakistan own plan project Azm is in place for 5th generation fighter which is economical single engine fighter

 

[Maxpane]

Pakistan own plan project Azm is in place for 5th generation fighter which is economical single engine fighter

I thought may be pakistan have partnership with the help of turkey

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

No Sweden cannot build the engine for Gripen.
It does not have enough experience to do so.

Only 5 countries right now can build jet fighter engines to world or near world class standards in order of tech:

1. US = UK with slight lead for US
Large gap
2. France
3. Russia
4. China

All Gripen A-D are flying with the Swedish RM12 Jet Engine which is a major redesign of the F404. It is owned by Sweden.
No F-35 is flying without Swedish Jet Engine technology.

Reminds me of a story.
A while ago (i think it was during the cold war) the Russians were trying to get british engine technology every which way. So when a couple of Russian scientist/engineers were invited to visit rolls royce facilities, the KGB made them wear shoes with sticky bottoms. Russians then managed to reverse engineer British alloy technology from the scrap metal that stuck to the bottom of their shoes.

The British made the Russians believe they got the rubber compound for Concorde tires,
but instead they got rubbish which the British had planted.

 

[Agha Sher]

All Gripen A-D are flying with the Swedish RM12 Jet Engine which is a major redesign of the F404. It is owned by Sweden.
No F-35 is flying without Swedish Jet Engine technology.

Modifying F404 to RM12 is not developing a jet engine by oneself. Sweden has some formidable achievements in defence, but producing jet engines are not within their capabilities at the moment. (If Sweden really decided to build one, they probably could with time)

 

[M.AsfandYar]

I don’t have any idea bro.

Probably to keep it clean

 

[UKBengali]

All Gripen A-D are flying with the Swedish RM12 Jet Engine which is a major redesign of the F404. It is owned by Sweden.
No F-35 is flying without Swedish Jet Engine technology.

Come-on, I know you are better than this.


General Electric produces 50% of the engine. Elements such as the fan/compressor discs and case, compressor spool, hubs, seals, and afterburner are manufactured in Sweden.
The 50% that GE provides are the most complex parts like turbine blades(this is the most difficult part to get right as China has found out).

Going by your logic then France can produce engines such as the LEAP all by itself. This is patently not true as France's Safran failed to produce an engine like the Silvercrest for the Dassault Falcon 5X.
US produces the most complex parts of the LEAP engine and this is shipped sealed to France for final assembly.


Sweden can produce all parts of the Gripen apart from the engine to the same standard if it really needed to for sure.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Reminds me of a story.
A while ago (i think it was during the cold war) the Russians were trying to get british engine technology every which way. So when a couple of Russian scientist/engineers were invited to visit rolls royce facilities, the KGB made them wear shoes with sticky bottoms. Russians then managed to reverse engineer British alloy technology from the scrap metal that stuck to the bottom of their shoes.

 

[Beast]

Come-on, I know you are better than this.


General Electric produces 50% of the engine. Elements such as the fan/compressor discs and case, compressor spool, hubs, seals, and afterburner are manufactured in Sweden.
The 50% that GE provides are the most complex parts like turbine blades(this is the most difficult part to get right as China has found out).

Going by your logic then France can produce engines such as the LEAP all by itself. This is patently not true as France's Safran failed to produce an engine like the Silvercrest for the Dassault Falcon 5X.
US produces the most complex parts of the LEAP engine and this is shipped sealed to France for final assembly.


Sweden can produce all parts of the Gripen apart from the engine to the same standard if it really needed to for sure.

Precisely, American are very cunning. Even if you are their best friend. They will never let you have the know how for their crown jewel engine technology. The so called TOT are very loose term.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Modifying F404 to RM12 is not developing a jet engine by oneself. Sweden has some formidable achievements in defence, but producing jet engines are not within their capabilities at the moment. (If Sweden really decided to build one, they probably could with time)

All RM12s are produced in Sweden.
More than 50% of the engine is replaced by Swedish Engineers.
This includes replacing critical metallurgy parts with something more reliable,
and replacing the analogue control with full FADEC.
The remaining parts are sourced from GE for cost reasons.
The Gripens with RM12 never had an engine related accident.
So Yes, we have the competency to design and manufacture Jet engines.
They are more expensive though.

 

[Agha Sher]

All RM12s are produced in Sweden.
More than 50% of the engine is replaced by Swedish Engineers.
This includes replacing critical metallurgy parts with something more reliable,
and replacing the analogue control with full FADEC.
The remaining parts are sourced from GE for cost reasons.
The Gripens with RM12 never had an engine related accident.
So Yes, we have the competency to design and manufacture Jet engines.
They are more expensive though.

Impressive. However, that does not make the RM12 a completely new jet engine, it remains a derivative of the F404. Building on something (F404) is exponentially easier than developing an engine from scratch.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Impressive. However, that does not make the RM12 a completely new jet engine, it remains a derivative of the F404. Building on something (F404) is exponentially easier than developing an engine from scratch.

I would say that most jet engines build on a previous version.
You cannot take an existing engine and make it substantially better without
knowing what you are doing.
It is not the first Jet Engine, RM = Jet Engine, so it is their 12th Jet Engine.
The first were just license production, but from RM5 used in J-35 Draken, they have all gotten substantial modifications.
For Gripen E, the F414 was selected because it was already available.
The RM12E was a proposal that included a Swedish designed and produced turbine, with basically same performance, but it would not meet the time schedule. More expensive to buy, but 30-40% less maintenance cost.