Turkish Air Defence Programs

[Mr.Department]

have strongest soft power on earth

Philosophical statement. Türkiye will never get this power. NEVER.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

If you have strongest soft power on earth, you wouldn't even need an army to defend you, since you will have everyone else to fight for you.

Right... As if we have a long track record of getting others to fight for us... Unfortunately, we're not Jews.

Personally I'd consider it a success if we could stop fighting other nations' wars. (Korea, Cold War, Cuban Missile Crisis, Afghanistan, Iraq, Bosnia, etc etc.) But some of this chit is unavoidable due to Turkey's own national interests.

Militarily speaking, nukes are the ultimate deterrent power to have. There's no question about it.

AFAIK, no nuclear power has ever been overtly attacked by another state.

 

[OguzSenturk]

Türkiye will never get this power. NEVER.

I know, i never claimed that she will.

Turkey, due to it's geopolitical location on earth should keep doing balance policy and that means we constantly have to piss off one side, meanwhile keep other side happy.

edit: i realised this is off topic subject balancing policy in SAM systems is beneficial for Republic and Army.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

Formula to safeguard Turkey's sovereignty and national interests in the coming decades:

• Strong economy
• Stable politics
• Strong, mostly self sufficient military with nuclear weapons

Israel is already nuclear. Iran is about to go nuclear within the next 5-10 years (if not already). Russia is nuclear. PKK/YPG is protected/aided by a nuclear power. Libya has a history of wanting to go nuclear. Egypt and Saudi Arabia want to have nukes and are building nuclear power stations (despite their oil resources). We're surrounded by nuclear powers!

If we don't go nuclear in the next decade or two, Turkey (as we know it) will never see the year 2050.

 

[Mr.Department]

I know, i never claimed that she will.

Turkey, due to it's geopolitical location on earth should keep doing balance policy and that means we constantly have to piss off one side, meanwhile keep other side happy.

Rüzgara göre iseyelim. Right translated bro ?

will never see the year 2050

True

 

[Deliorman]

Formula to safeguard Turkey's sovereignty and national interests in the coming decades:

• Strong economy
• Stable politics
• Strong, mostly self sufficient military with nuclear weapons

Israel is already nuclear. Iran is about to go nuclear within the next 5-10 years (if not already). Russia is nuclear. PKK/YPG is protected/aided by a nuclear power. Libya has a history of wanting to go nuclear. Egypt and Saudi Arabia want to have nukes and are building nuclear power stations (despite their oil resources). We're surrounded by nuclear powers!

If we don't go nuclear in the next decade or two, Turkey (as we know it) will never see the year 2050.

That’s why I am all for Iran going nuclear.
The day Iranians produce their nuclear weapons Turkey will follow and it will have a legitimate right to do so. If all regional powers get nuclear weapons be sure that Turkey won’t look from the sidelines...

Some even say that we are quietly developing it and I have also heard (wild) claims that Turkey is already a de-facto nuclear power which would have been really good if true but unfortunately isn’t...

For now developing our defense industry and improving our military hardware and tactics in a faster pace will be enough. I am sure the ambitions are higher for the future.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

I very much doubt Turkey has any nukes other than the few tactical NATO B-61s which are under strict US control.

Turkey has a handful of research reactors but they're under IAEA inspections and none of them have the capacity to enrich/separate Uranium or produce Plutonium in large quantities necessary for weapons. They're just tiny low-power research reactors for education.

The only way Turkey might have usable nukes of its own right now is if it somehow struck a super-secret agreement with Pakistan and has a few Pakistani nukes stashed away somewhere. Which is very, very far fetched but hypothetically possible.

 

[-------]

Soft power is always good to have. But soft power alone can't deter powerful enemies from striking Turkey, or working against our national interests, or supporting terrorists against us, or dictating us unfavorable EEZs, or organizing coups within our country. Sure, nukes don't guarantee any of that, but they certainly go a long way to that effect.

US attacked and occupied Afghanistan in a heartbeat. But it can never do the same to Pakistan. I'd count that toward nukes doing some good for Pakistan.

I don't understand where this outlook is comming from, who in their right mind would attack Turkey ? If our outlook were as bleak as North Korea or Iran, sure make the nukes, but as it stands now and for the forseable future we are still a long way off from becoming a hermit state.

See how Turkey made Europe bend the knee when we opened the flood gates of refugees ? How the British media used that to bend the votes and cast themselves out of Eurozone.

Soft Power makes lasting changes... I would push for more bases like the one in Somalia, increase number of businessmen investing in smaller countries, news outlets controlled by Turkey in foreign countries.. Like France has many news outlets in Arab world.

I just recently learned that Turkey holds 8 out of the 9 swords that belonged to prophet Muhammad (PBUH), why aren't there any documentries on those swords examining them both spiritually and scientifically?

We lack softpower and all that has happened to us to this date is because of lack of soft power not hard power like nukes..

I'm not disagreeing with you on deterance nukes have to prevent full blown out war. But as it stands, no one is going to start a full blown out war, we all have it far too good and have become subservient to current world order.

We have one of the largest reserves of thorium mineral, I'd rather see money being invested into development of thorium reactors then see nukes..

 

[Neptune]

Lets take a moment roughly categorize elements of national power into two, ruling out the dynamics.
1- Hard power
2- Soft power

Think of today and the foreseeable future as far as 20 years, what is out threat environment and what it will be like?

There is the issue of the threat of terror within and outside our borders and then there is conventional threats from the sea. Please put Greece away from the discussion. We may have small crises from time to time but in the end we all know that nothing will happen like a full scale military campaign. Now, take the Mediterranean into account, despite all the mass armament programs of the navy involving LHDs, warships, submarines...etc. even now we maintain the upper hand in terms of capability to act swiftly and effectively in a lethal manner even if the sh.ity Greek-Egyptian-Israeli naval alliance is combined all together. Israel is also not a threat at all, on the contrary it is friendly partner (pls dont let the politics judge your opinion). I think we don't even need to mention the NATO nuclear umbrella. Then why would be want to have nuclear arms? Even if foreign powers stage coup again, we would not be able to respond with nukes, or would they hesitate to commit such acts. Like CombatMaster pointed out, soft power is much more important than the hard power we are already possessing. On a second thought, even if, lets say the world is doomed, if we are ever to launch a nuclear program either openly or covertly; we must already be have to posses the following:
1- Independent defense industry and military with more enhanced power projection capabilities
2- Way way stronger and stable economy to resist sanctions
3- Even more larger network of Turkish influence and soft power politics throughout the globe, specifically in Africa and Middle East that will provide a significant advantage to Turkish foreign policy, economy and intelligence operations in the region.
4- Established safe, well-maintained, advanced nuclear energy industry which at a given short-time period if a regional war breaks out, will allow us to have an established infrastructure for nuclear armament.

Now, at a given time when all these four are met, which will undoubtedly increase our military and intelligence capabilities drastically, why on earth would we be still desiring for nuclear weapons when we reach to have these capabilities?

 

[Saithan]

I was not aware that Turkey was in possession/safeguarding 8 out of 9 of the Prophets swords. Turning this into softpower / attraction would draw pilgrims from all over the world.

 

[Pax Ottomana]

I don't understand where this outlook is comming from, who in their right mind would attack Turkey ?

You're a smart guy, don't be so naive about this. Turkey is already attacked by global powers. Perhaps not directly (yet) since the WW1 but certainly via pawns and proxies. This is what DHKP-C and ISIS were and the PKK/YPG still is. Gezi Park events and the attempted coup of July 15 were also forms of attack on Turkey by our so-called "allies" and "strategic partners". All the baseless, de facto embargoes imposed on us are also attacks on Turkey aimed to maim our defensive capabilities.

Throughout the republican history, just about every time Turkey wanted to walk on its own independent, national path, it faced such attacks in the form of interventions on our democratic will. Of course they cost countless lives and major economic damage too. Every time, we had to change our path to a Western-serving, submissive one. Such forces only want a subservient Turkey and they're sure to try and interfere again as we rise and continue to look after our own national interests at the expense of theirs.

Turkey has some very serious fracture points such as the Kurdish issue, Cyprus, Aegean Sea, Armenian border, etc. Any one or all of these fracture points can be used to inflict damage on us along with direct attacks on our country under the auspices of "bringing democracy", "stabilizing the country", "supporting moderate (read PKK) forces", "supporting opposition", etc etc.

Nuclear deterrence is absolutely a necessity for Turkey in the long run because it's the only way Turkey can threated the powers behind such attacks back. But besides that, regional nuclear foes like Israel and Iran must be matched in capabilities in order to safeguard our national interests in our own backyard.

Also, it's wrong to say that Turkey must first become a rogue "hermit state" in order to develop nukes. Did Israel become one? Did France, the UK or India? No. Well, Turkey is a G20 major-economy and the world's 6th most visited country, not to mention being central to 3 different continents and controlling major/strategic shipping routes. I'm not even going to talk about NATO membership, EU parliament membership, OIC, OECD, being an energy and aviation hub, etc etc. Turkey will never become a hermit state like North Korea.

Every nation has a right to self-defense. And if Turkey deems that it has to develop nuclear weapons in order to deter various forms of attacks on its people and government from other nuclear nations, than that's what we should do.

Now, at a given time when all these four are met, which will undoubtedly increase our military and intelligence capabilities drastically, why on earth would we be still desiring for nuclear weapons when we reach to have these capabilities?

This is a ridiculous argument. Do you think the current nuclear powers didn't ask this question to themselves? Why is the US still spending billions on maintaining its nuclear triad despite having a stronger conventional military capability than the next few countries combined?

Simple. Because nukes are a game changer. No amount of conventional power can match nuclear weapons in destructive --and therefore deterrence-- capability. Even tiny North Korea can now hold a giant like the US at bay because they've proven nuclear capability.

 

[-------]

You're a smart guy, don't be so naive about this. Turkey is already attacked by global powers. Perhaps not directly (yet) since the WW1 but certainly via pawns and proxies. This is what DHKP-C and ISIS were and the PKK/YPG still is. Gezi Park events and the attempted coup of July 15 were also forms of attack on Turkey by our so-called "allies" and "strategic partners". All the baseless, de facto embargoes imposed on us are also attacks on Turkey aimed to maim our defensive capabilities.

Throughout the republican history, just about every time Turkey wanted to walk on its own independent, national path, it faced such attacks in the form of interventions on our democratic will. Of course they cost countless lives and major economic damage too. Every time, we had to change our path to a Western-serving, submissive one. Such forces only want a subservient Turkey and they're sure to try and interfere again as we rise and continue to look after our own national interests at the expense of theirs.

Turkey has some very serious fracture points such as the Kurdish issue, Cyprus, Aegean Sea, Armenian border, etc. Any one or all of these fracture points can be used to inflict damage on us along with direct attacks on our country under the auspices of "bringing democracy", "stabilizing the country", "supporting moderate (read PKK) forces", "supporting opposition", etc etc.

Nuclear deterrence is absolutely a necessity for Turkey in the long run because it's the only way Turkey can threated the powers behind such attacks back. But besides that, regional nuclear foes like Israel and Iran must be matched in capabilities in order to safeguard our national interests in our own backyard.

Also, it's wrong to say that Turkey must first become a rogue "hermit state" in order to develop nukes. Did Israel become one? Did France, the UK or India? No. Well, Turkey is a G20 major-economy and the world's 6th most visited country, not to mention being central to 3 different continents and controlling major/strategic shipping routes. I'm not even going to talk about NATO membership, EU parliament membership, OIC, OECD, being an energy and aviation hub, etc etc. Turkey will never become a hermit state like North Korea.

Every nation has a right to self-defense. And if Turkey deems that it has to develop nuclear weapons in order to deter various forms of attacks on its people and government from other nuclear nations, than that's what we should do.


This is a ridiculous argument. Do you think the current nuclear powers didn't ask this question to themselves? Why is the US still spending billions on maintaining its nuclear triad despite having a stronger conventional military capability than the next few countries combined?

Simple. Because nukes are a game changer. No amount of conventional power can match nuclear weapons in destructive --and therefore deterrence-- capability. Even tiny North Korea can now hold a giant like the US at bay because they've proven nuclear capability.

Lets just agree to disagree...

 

[Seyfullah]

This is quite interesting development, I hope UMTAS also will be able to perform same capabilities in near future.

https://twitter.com/x/status/950496456124846082

 

[OguzSenturk]

This is quite interesting development, I hope UMTAS also will be able to perform same capabilities in near future.

https://twitter.com/x/status/950496456124846082

Is there any SSM project like this?

 

[-------]

Is there any SSM project like this?

There is development of a MMW seeker UMTAS.