Turkey to go ahead with non-NATO-integrated Chinese missile defence

[I <3 PAK ARMY]

Every country has right to take steps for its own national interest... Whether China ... or NATO

 

[The SC]

When Turkey spent years to develop Turkey version SAM out, there will be Patriot-III, S-500, HQ-26 selling in the world. LOL...this's not simply copy/paste, need years & funds to develop.

And I said cold-launched HQ-9/FD-2000 absolutely is not the latest advanced tech for U.S/Russia/China, cheaper than MK-41.

True but Turkey will than have its own long range Air defense system in par with the best by combining it own advanced technologies to the most recent ones found in HQ-9

Well, this HQ-9 performs better is a hoax, i think. Only Chinese says this stuff and without and data or proof.


We should cancel the tender, and go for the Roketsan missile.

Actually it was a turkish test or a test done for Turkey and a turkish report about it.. Turks can not hoax themselves.

 

[SipahSalar]

Does this mean Turkey is slowly moving away from the NATO? NATO is no longer an alliance but a gang banging organization. What purpose does NATO serve in the post-cold war era?

I don't think so. It is more about money and less about politics. According to AusAirpower, the Chinese HQ-9 is equal to Patriot missiles in performance and still cheaper. So it will only make sense to buy them.
As for NATO, i posted an excellent article on it few days ago. https://defence.pk/threads/how-strong-is-the-nato-military-alliance.360144/

CPMIEC HQ-9 / HHQ-9 / FD-2000 / FT-2000 Self Propelled AirDefence System

What data is available suggests a missile which is similar in capability to early variants of the MIM-104 Patriot and SA-10C/SA-20A 48N6E, including Track via Missile (TVM) guidance.

The HQ-9 family of missiles are clearly derived from the Russian S-300PMU / SA-10C Grumble and S-300PMU1 / SA-20A Gargoyle family of SAMs, but with numerous unique design changes. Cited kinematic performance typically falls in between the SA-10C and SA-20A, making the HQ-9 systems credible equivalents to various MIM-104 Patriot variants.

 

[SouI]

not everyone have the ability like Uchiha family.

Uchiha Clan was a Turkic Clan...

 

[-SINAN-]

Actually it was a turkish test or a test done for Turkey and a turkish report about it.. Turks can not hoax themselves.

Source ?

 

[The SC]

Source ?

you'll fid it if you look it up. Google about the test for Turkey. it was done about 2 years ago.

 

[atatwolf]

HQ-9 is not going to be used by the Turkish military. To be clear: it is going to be upgraded.

Well, this HQ-9 performs better is a hoax, i think. Only Chinese says this stuff and without and data or proof.


We should cancel the tender, and go for the Roketsan missile.

True, it is same story as how the Chinese rip-off of the F-35 is just as good as the original one. The Chinese are good at copying but I jet have to see they made a 100% identical copy or show innovation. I think Russian variant of the HQ-9 is even better than Chinese one since HQ-9 is rip-off too from the Russians.

 

[TaiShang]

Good. The export version starts to bring money. This means more funding available for R&D that is key to have the cutting-edge technology for domestic use.

We have so many potential customers for the export version. Central Asia is one of potential areas:

Has China Made Its First Big Military Sale In Central Asia?
February 6, 2015 - 5:29pm, by Joshua Kucera

HQ-9 air defense systems on parade in Beijing. (photo: Wikimedia Commons)

China has reportedly provided both Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan with sophisticated air defense systems, which would represent the largest Chinese military equipment deal thus far in Central Asia.

Reportedly, China has provided one battalion each to Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan of the HQ-9 air defense system, as partial payment for natural gas that it imports from Central Asia. (Each battalion consists of eight launchers.)

The information on the deal is spotty: it comes from Chinese-language Canadian defense journal Kanwa Defense Review, and cites an anonymous Chinese defense industry source. "It is possible, even likely, but it is still unclear at which stage the deals are," Vasily Kashin, a Russian military expert at the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies told The Bug Pit. "Both countries need long range [surface-to-air missile] systems to replace their S-200s which are becoming physically old and unsustainable. Both countries are well known for their careful balancing between Russia, China and the West, they are both fiercely independent from Russia. Besides, Chinese currently can provide very good financial terms for such a deal."

One suggestive fact: Uzbekistani website 12news.uz has reported the news, and though it cites the Chinese sources, it implies that they have credence. It notes that President Islam Karimov has said Uzbekistan needs to acquire "the newest weaponry and equipment, including air defense systems and helicopters, armored vehicles, artillery systems, and communications systems, the site wrote, and quoted Karimov: "Our highest priority remains the deepening of cooperation with defense structures of foreign governments, with many of which we have established and are widening mutually beneficial partnerships, resulting in annual plans of military and military-technical cooperation." (Uzbekistan may have solved its armored vehicle needs with the 328 MRAPs it was just given by the United States.)

It's worth noting that air defense has been one of Russia's top priorities for military cooperation in Central Asia. In November, the Collective Security Treaty Organization "started to talk about practical steps" on creating a unified air defense system in Central Asia. The CSTO members in Central Asia are Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan; air defense cooperation between Kazakhstan and Russia is fairly well developed, much less so with the two smaller countries.

It's also worth noting that China has yet to export any HQ-9s; this is the same system that Turkey controversially agreed to buy, though that deal appears likely to fall through. So Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan would be the first such customers.

China's growing influence in Central Asia has been unmistakeable, but thus far its military activities have remained a far lower priority than economic cooperation. Beijing has appeared not to want to antagonize Moscow, which likes to recognize a sort of military hegemony in the region. Is that changing?

"The Russian government may not be entirely happy, but probably cannot do anything about it," Kashin said. "Central Asian countries started to diversify their military-technical cooperation long ago, and China is one of natural choices."

Although the Kanwa report said that the deal was completed in 2013, Kashin noted that Turkmenistan's last military parade, in September, featured only old Russian air defense systems, so Turkmenistan may not have taken delivery of them yet. "So, maybe the actual delivery will happen this year and the HQ-9s will replace S-200s on positions near Turkmen and Uzbek capitals," Kashin said. Stay tuned.

 

[cnleio]

HQ-9 is not going to be used by the Turkish military. To be clear: it is going to be upgraded.

LOL ... $3.4-billion to pay for how many HQ-9 systems from China ?

GlobalSecurity: HQ-9

In September 2013 the HQ-9 submitted by CPMIEC won Turkey's T-LORAMIDS program to acquire 12 long range air defense systems.After Turkey decided to buy HQ-9 long-range air and missile defence system from a Chinese company, Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Hong Lei told a press conference on September 27, 2013. "The Chinese government carries out defence trade cooperation in a prudent and responsible manner. China's military export does no harm to peace, security and stability of relevant regions and beyond, nor does it interfere in the internal affairs of recipient countries. It is in strict consistence with China's relevant international obligations. The aforementioned cooperation between China and Turkey is defence trade cooperation under normal circumstances."

By 2013 China had started to produce an improved version of the HQ-9, the HQ-9A. with improved electronics and programming, the combat effectiveness of the latter even better, especially more powerful anti-missile capability.

Now there's HQ-9B in PLA.

China HQ-9 system competed with S-300, Patriot, Asters-30 and finally win 3.4billion USD deal. (1/6 Turkey military expenditure, List of countries by military expenditures)

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

FD-2000 is just an inferior twin brother of HQ-9, if Turkey wanna pay 3-4 billion for this 'crap', then good for them.

Just found this online

I'm not putting the system down but this is cool looking.

-----------


Also I read this youtube comment, don't know what his source is:

"This HQ-9, export version FD-2000, long range air defense missile had completely beaten Patriot 3 during the open biding competition in Turkey. HQ-9 has 100% hit rate (9 of 9) and the fastest response time (15 secs). It is proof that China's anti-air defense is now better than the US at half the price at US$3.44 billions. Patriot 3 of the US priced at US$7.8 billions. Turkey finally chose HQ-9 as it was far superior but was later stopped by the US."

The failed one is S-300 or HQ-15, not HQ-9.

 

[New World]

LOL
It seems that chinese are not talking to Turks(Who wants to buy weapons from china), They are talking to Indians(who has fought war with China)..

Thumbs down for this New Relationship

 

[xenon54 out]

LOL
It seems that chinese are not talking to Turks(Who wants to buy weapons from china), They are talking to Indians(who has fought war with China)..

Thumbs down for this New Relationship

Most of them think we pay billions for Air defence system but we are actually paying for ToT, the system itself isnt so important, our only condition from the beginning was to deliver ToT but others just wanna sell only China agreed, not to mention that their bid was the cheapest among all at the first place.

Turkey gave time to others to rethink their offer, if we would get ToT for Aster or Patriot (which i doubt) we would pay even double as much as Chinese offer since we go for western tech wherever possible but they probably wont accept ToT.

China came up with an unbeatable offer i dont know why Chinese act here as if they ripped us off when they gave the cheapest offer so far, i dont get the logic here to be honest.

 

[SouI]

China came up with an unbeatable offer i dont know why Chinese act here as if they ripped us off when they gave the cheapest offer so far, i dont get the logic here to be honest.

I am guessing that, because of our NATO status (and also for uighur stuff), most of them may be seeing us as a hostile nation.. So that they want to believe that 'China made a great deal with Turkey, a NATO country, while also ripping them off!!!'

But the bigger picture, and also the bigger gain here, is the 'political gain'. Even though some of our peeps here along with some Chinese here might be thinking that we hate each other, it actually is not so correct.

It is obvious that AKP government wants to turn its direction to the east to check the balance of its relationship, and hold it in a more eastern style, meaning that Turkey IRL wants to get closer with China and Russia.

This is the bigger picture. One shall not forget that not only the price of the SAM was cheaper than 1/2 of the price of others, and even gone cheaper than that later on with other unbelievable offers like ToT etc, China also sends Turkey's 'military satellites' for far and far cheaper prices than what it generally costs for itself and other countries.

China indeed has been winking at Turkey for a long time, and it still is winking at us for political gains.

China doesn't really need our $4B, hell it could also give SAM along with ToT and dat $4B to us just fine!

 

[mike2000]

HQ-9 is not going to be used by the Turkish military. To be clear: it is going to be upgraded.


True, it is same story as how the Chinese rip-off of the F-35 is just as good as the original one. The Chinese are good at copying but I jet have to see they made a 100% identical copy or show innovation. I think Russian variant of the HQ-9 is even better than Chinese one since HQ-9 is rip-off too from the Russians.

Well, you arent that far off from the truth, There has been rumours the Chinese themselves are looking to purchase S-400 from Russia, though so far it is just a rumour, nothing real has come out of it as of yet. But yes overall, Russia still has a wide lead(though its reducing quite fast) militarily over China, Most Chinese weapon systems are derived/have their origin from Russia.

As for your first point, hmmmmmmm....i think you are just being bitter/bias to be honest. Looks like your Turkish pride has been hurt. You say the HQ-9 is not going to be used by the Turkish military?LOOOL Why are they buying it then?
You say they are buying it just to UPGRADE IT??? WTF? Im sure even your Turkish brothers on here are embarassed to see you say such a thing. You mean Turkey is more advanced than China? Bro, please calm down, and be realistic, just because you are biased or hate a country, that doesnt means you should spill out such Funny stuffs on a public forum. Turkey itself is saying they are trying to buld a similar system in 7 years from now(thats being optimistic by the way, we know there are always delays in such sophisticated systems), and by then the Russians, Americans , Chinese would have moved on to better systems(well they have already anyway.lol). Please be more pragmatic and smart enough to know how to downplay/denigrate/troll a country, do it smartly, not the way you just did, else you lose all little credibility you had left.
Still dont understand why members here cant be a little more reasonable/less biased in their views oon here, afterall we are all common civilians not politicians, dont understanbd why we cant get along instead of always holding one particular point of view and being sooo biased against a particular country, i have seen that on here sooo many times . Only a few members on here that i really respect for their valuable/unbiased views.

SAnyway, IF this deal goes through(its still not confirmed though its more than likely now to go through), then it will be a very big advert for Chinese weapons industry, which until now has been stucked on low to mid tier weapons exports. Its indeed the beginning of a long road to China joining the top tier weapon exporters.IMO.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Well, you arent that far off from the truth, There has been rumours the Chinese themselves are looking to purchase S-400 from Russia, though so far it is just a rumour, nothing real has come out of it as of yet. But yes overall, Russia still has a wide lead(though its reducing quite fast) militarily over China, Most Chinese weapon systems are derived/have their origin from Russia.

As for your first point, hmmmmmmm....i think you are just being bitter/bias to be honest. Looks like your Turkish pride has been hurt. You say the HQ-9 is not going to be used by the Turkish military?LOOOL Why are they buying it then?
You say they are buying it just to UPGRADE IT??? WTF? Im sure even your Turkish brothers on here are embarassed to see you say such a thing. You mean Turkey is more advanced than China? Bro, please calm down, and be realistic, just because you are biased or hate a country, that doesnt means you should spill out such Funny stuffs on a public forum. Turkey itself is saying they are trying to buld a similar system in 7 years from now(thats being optimistic by the way, we know there are always delays in such sophisticated systems), and by then the Russians, Americans , Chinese would have moved on to better systems(well they have already anyway.lol). Please be more pragmatic and smart enough to know how to downplay/denigrate/troll a country, do it smartly, not the way you just did, else you lose all little credibility you had left.
Still dont understand why members here cant be a little more reasonable/less biased in their views oon here, afterall we are all common civilians not politicians, dont understanbd why we cant get along instead of always holding one particular point of view and being sooo biased against a particular country, i have seen that on here sooo many times . Only a few members on here that i really respect for their valuable/unbiased views.

SAnyway, IF this deal goes through(its still not confirmed though its more than likely now to go through), then it will be a very big advert for Chinese weapons industry, which until now has been stucked on low to mid tier weapons exports. Its indeed the beginning of a long road to China joining the top tier weapon exporters.IMO.

The S-400 rumor is not true.