Turkey could be considering Pakistani produced JF-17 fighter aircraft

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Turkish f16's have a switch off button that can be activated by USA if they believe Turkey is using the planes against interestes of the USA

The switch off button were installed into all muslim countries buying f16's after Israel protested their sales.

Worse still they also put a switch inside the head of the Turkish proxy scum pilots - belonging to FETO terrorist org - to always show loyalty to a country south of Turkey!!! By the by, it was always kept ON....

 

[Falcon26]

Speed is important. In 1971 war, Pakistan learnt that slow anti ship missiles can be intercepted with heavy machine gun fire. So, the fascination with high speed missile exists in India.

If the missile is travelling at 0.6mach (200m/s or 700kmph), people can spot it in open seas and launch heavy machine gun fire with 1000s of rounds per minute in that direction and destroy it. Even CIWS like AK630 exist for the same reason. But, if the speed in 3Mach (1km/s), it is not possible to intercept with such cheap tricks.



SOM is a decent missile. But, the missile used in F35 is Joint strike missile of Norway. Turkey will use SOM on its own F35 with modifications to be compliant with Joint strike missile (like collective guidance).

I would love to know what Pakistani missiles were intercepted by Indian heavy machine guns. Please provide third party sources and not Bollywood versions of reality.

If subsonic missiles are so easy to spot and shoot down, why is your country repeatedly working on the Nirbhay. Shouldn’t the Brahmos suffice?

 

[Basel]

Turkey have better options like euro fighter typhoon for replacing F-4 phantom considering recent UK turkey aggrement over TFX. But JF-17 block III would be a politically economical sounds options. Turkey can get large number to replace and supplements their front line fighter . Turkey don't need to use expensive western fighter to fight Kurdish rebel JF-17 and UAV will be enough .

JFT allow Turkey to make it as they want, the freedom of customization it gives don't come with any other bird and as Turkey is makings its own avionics and weapon systems it could be good bird to utilize them.

Could be in interesting Enhancements:

Block 1 Standard offering
Block 2 A Refueling Pods, Turkish Sniper Pod, Enhanced SD-10 Support
Block 2 B (2 Seater)
Block 3 Enhanced Engine, AESA Radar
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Block 4 Turkish Avionics / Weapons Package perhaps British AESA

British engine EJ-200 customize for JFT is very possible too as its variant will be used in TFX.

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

what do you think happened to pakistani f16's during the Kargil war?? not one flew out of their air base even for re con mission let alone engaging any Indian air force fighters which were used extensively by india during the war.

The 2 Indian Migs pakistani shit down over Kargil were done by the army using surface to air weapons

Pakistan was continuously denying its role in Kargil. India wanted to fire its nuclear tipped Prithvi missiles on Pakistan. Pakistan didn't want to escalate further and hence its F16 wasn't used.

I would love to know what Pakistani missiles were intercepted by Indian heavy machine guns. Please provide third party sources and not Bollywood versions of reality.

If subsonic missiles are so easy to spot and shoot down, why is your country repeatedly working on the Nirbhay. Shouldn’t the Brahmos suffice?

It was Pakistan that shot down Indian missile. Pakistan didn't have anti ship missile back then.

Nirbhay has 1500km range for 1.5 ton weight while Brahmos has 450km range for 3 ton weight. Nirbhay is needed for longer range attack and also to have the technology.

Indian main anti ship missile will remain to be Brahmos. Nirbhay will be for long diatance ships and land target with limited air defence. For example, the air defence system of Pakistan land bases is limited with a bunch of HQ9 for entire Pakistani bases.

 

[Falcon26]

Pakistan was continuously denying its role in Kargil. India wanted to fire its nuclear tipped Prithvi missiles on Pakistan. Pakistan didn't want to escalate further and hence its F16 wasn't used.



It was Pakistan that shot down Indian missile. Pakistan didn't have anti ship missile back then.

Nirbhay has 1500km range for 1.5 ton weight while Brahmos has 450km range for 3 ton weight. Nirbhay is needed for longer range attack and also to have the technology.

Indian main anti ship missile will remain to be Brahmos. Nirbhay will be for long diatance ships and land target with limited air defence. For example, the air defence system of Pakistan land bases is limited with a bunch of HQ9 for entire Pakistani bases.

Do you have any source of Pakistan shooting down Indian missiles, in that case?

 

[ghauri05]

Nirbhay has 1500km range for 1.5 ton weight while Brahmos has 450km range for 3 ton weight. Nirbhay is needed for longer range attack and also to have the technology.

You said that subsonic missile is easily intercepted by CIWS and machine guns..now even with range of 1500KM(which it never achieved)...assume it has reached its destination and is just about to target a few km away from target..wouldn't it be right to say that it will be destroyed by machine guns and CIWS with in that few kms???
So what's the point of travelling let's say 1480km and getting certainly shot down in the last 20 km???? by the weapons you mentioned in your super duper logic?

 

[Raider 21]

Turkish f16's have a switch off button that can be activated by USA if they believe Turkey is using the planes against interestes of the USA

The switch off button were installed into all muslim countries buying f16's after Israel protested their sales.

that's a good one.

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

You said that subsonic missile is easily intercepted by CIWS and machine guns..now even with range of 1500KM(which it never achieved)...assume it has reached its destination and is just about to target a few km away from target..wouldn't it be right to say that it will be destroyed by machine guns and CIWS with in that few kms???
So what's the point of travelling let's say 1480km and getting certainly shot down in the last 20 km???? by the weapons you mentioned in your super duper logic?

It can only be shot down if people have prior warning. One has to be readily manning a turret machine gun in the direction of missile arrival and be on level grpund. In open sea, it is easier to spot than in land. Also, they are useful only when air defence is taken out first.

Nirbhay is not a first strike missile. Ballistic missiles and Brahmos are first strike. Nirbhay is to be used only after the initial strike for cost effective second wave with accuracy.

Nirbhay is LESS IMPORTANT than Brahmos. So, don't ever think that India plans to use Nirbhay as a key strike missile.

Do you have any source of Pakistan shooting down Indian missiles, in that case?

I read it while reading about the war. I don't remember source.

Also, note that back then there were no sea skimming missiles. The missile used to fly higher in the sky, made noise and smoke trail and easily spotted from sea at longer distances

 

[ghauri05]

It can only be shot down if people have prior warning. One has to be readily manning a turret machine gun in the direction of missile arrival and be on level grpund. In open sea, it is easier to spot than in land. Also, they are useful only when air defence is taken out first.

Nirbhay is not a first strike missile. Ballistic missiles and Brahmos are first strike. Nirbhay is to be used only after the initial strike for cost effective second wave with accuracy.

Nirbhay is LESS IMPORTANT than Brahmos. So, don't ever think that India plans to use Nirbhay as a key strike missile.

I don't think that you fathom the concept of cruise missiles at all....but just can u identify why US is using tomahawk as first strike system successfully???

 

[Vijyes Yechury]

I don't think that you fathom the concept of cruise missiles at all....but just can u identify why US is using tomahawk as first strike system successfully???

USA first strike missile is minuteman, which is an ICBM (Ballistic Missile). USA uses subsonic cruise missiles only for deployment against 'primitives in sandals' who don't have proper defence. USA dare not use them against strong adversary.

There are only 2 first strike missile for high probability of hit - Ballistic missiles and supersonic cruise missile.

Subsonic cruise missile is for -
1. ALCM (air launched) as ballistic missile can't be fired from aircraft and supersonic cruise missiles are too heavy
2. Second wave of missiles after 1st strike took out all air defence for precision strike.

Subsonic missiles are not true missiles. That is why USA allows Korea, Taiwan, Japan to have them (which are under direct control of USA by placement of US military bases). If Japan can make space rocket why can't it make ballistic missile? Because USA doesn't allow it as ballistic missiles are difficult to be intercepted once fired

 

[MMM-E]

Subsonic missiles are not true missiles.

Yes Supersonic speed makes it very difficult to detect and track ....
but New Turkish MILGEM-I class stealth Frigate will be armed with 64 x ESSM ( 50 km range and mach 4 speed ) to intercept BRAHMOS Supersonic Anti Ship Missile

the BRAHMOS will be detected at about 25-30 km from the Warship when it is in its sea-skimming terminal phase with supersonic speed at 1km/sec and Turkish MILGEM-I class stealth Frigate has about 25-30 seconds to react

We have 4 ESSM SAMs targeting each BRAHMOS Missile and the probability of interception is theoretically 100%

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

JAPAN has developed XASM-3 air launched Supersonic Anti Ship Missile ( mach 3 speed and 150km range )

and Turkish ATMACA and French-British PERSEUS Supersonic Anti Ship Missiles are on the way

...............................................................................................................................................................

 

[Sully3]

that's a good one.

its common knowledge

ask the right people and you will get your answer.

not one single f16 flew in the Kargil war ask yourself why? why not even on re con mission even if they didn't want to engage Indian fighters.

 

[Raider 21]

its common knowledge

ask the right people and you will get your answer.

not one single f16 flew in the Kargil war ask yourself why? why not even on re con mission even if they didn't want to engage Indian fighters.

Unfortunately the right people I know were sitting forward deployed in F-16 cockpits day and night for any sort of engagement....and they had taken an OCU squadrons jets...so all were IPs as well.

 

[MastanKhan]

Unfortunately the right people I know were sitting forward deployed in F-16 cockpits day and night for any sort of engagement....and they had taken an OCU squadrons jets...so all were IPs as well.

Hi,

With barely enough spare parts---they had to sit in their jets---rather than fly 24/7

 

[khanasifm]

off topic please post in related thread and stick to the thread topic