Turkey could be considering Pakistani produced JF-17 fighter aircraft

[Shane]

I think Turkey would love to see the diplomatic benefit of it. Right now they are increasingly feeling isolated and cornered by pressure from the West, Iran / etc.

It's easy to say "they don't want it". May be better to go and ask.

Last time I looked, they were looking for international support of their operation. Its more than just 4 planes - it would be a giant diplomatic endorsement.

But that's just me. I am sure some think its a "stupid" idea.

I like your out of the box thinking mate. Don't worry about the nay sayers as there is lots of potential in your suggestion.

It may be applied in another scenario and situation that is not so volatile in terms of the number of Muslim countries and interests involved.

It can be beneficial only when our Government realises the need for it and the monetary and political benefits in the long run of such an exercise on world stage becomes clearer.

As I understand it, the primary reason is marketing the aircrafts to the world in a foreign, hostile environment as the most suitable platform to strike against terrorists on the run and entrenched in urban areas as it is more cost effective to operate than F16 but just as surgically and militarily effective without carrying any strings that come with US equipment.

Again, not a bad idea at all if Pakistan sees the need for such an exercise.

Surprisingly enough, it is not that much difficult to justify our involvement either as Pakistan has been a victim of terrorism, except for just one key factor that shall be discussed at the end of the post.

With an emphasis on "loaning" three aircrafts to Turkey for testing and integration with Turkish weaponry - like China sent its Z10 attack helis to Pakistan for battle ground testing, our Government can emphasize that the aircraft testing in war scenario shall only be restricted to strikes against ISIL and not against other forces.

Again, this restriction shall mean that the "loaned" aircraft shall not be used against Syrian/ Iranian forces and obviously other Syrian groups that are aligned with turkey against the former.

Turkeys opponents, as in YPG, who are supported by USA, may be considered undeclared fair game, to show middle finger to trump now and then only if required or not at all. Still not a bad hand to hold if we are looking to get cosier with Russians than Americans.

The whole exercise with restrictions on just taking part in fight against the terrorist outfit of ISIL can be justified as a plus point over the basic reason of weapon's integration and testing, and as an opportunity to hit back at ISIL for its terrorist and recruitment activities inside Pakistan.

So it can be made to look like a situation that can be justified with respect to Iran, Syria and even Saudi Arabia at the same time and that's nothing short of a master stroke if achieved diplomatically in the guise of weapons integration and testing.

The basic benefit of supporting our Turkish brethren in their war aside, PAF shall get a lot of marketing mileage, experience and benefit of support, integration, testing and using Turkish weapons and subsystems with JF17 in actual war scenario.

Now let's discuss the key factor in the way of sending three JF17 jets to Turkey - Saudi Arabia.

The Saudis will be justified in asking why Turkey and why not send them to us for use in Yemen???
Again, the justifiable answer could be weapons integration and testing various Turkish subsystems with strikes on ISIL as just an added benefit.

Well, this concludes my two cents on the subject...war gaming and hypothetical situation are a much more detailed than the above and contentious matter so expect all sorts of reactions from other posters who may or may not agree with another pov.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

That is what I was thinking too Turkey is Loaded with 200+ F16

 

[MastanKhan]

I like your out of the box thinking mate. Don't worry about the nay sayers as there is lots of potential in your suggestion.

It may be applied in another scenario and situation that is not so volatile in terms of the number of Muslim countries and interests involved.

It can be beneficial only when our Government realises the need for it and the monetary and political benefits in the long run of such an exercise on world stage becomes clearer.

As I understand it, the primary reason is marketing the aircrafts to the world in a foreign, hostile environment as the most suitable platform to strike against terrorists on the run and entrenched in urban areas as it is more cost effective to operate than F16 but just as surgically and militarily effective without carrying any strings that come with US equipment.

Again, not a bad idea at all if Pakistan sees the need for such an exercise.

Surprisingly enough, it is not that much difficult to justify our involvement either as Pakistan has been a victim of terrorism, except for just one key factor that shall be discussed at the end of the post.

With an emphasis on "loaning" three aircrafts to Turkey for testing and integration with Turkish weaponry - like China sent its Z10 attack helis to Pakistan for battle ground testing, our Government can emphasize that the aircraft testing in war scenario shall only be restricted to strikes against ISIL and not against other forces.

Again, this restriction shall mean that the "loaned" aircraft shall not be used against Syrian/ Iranian forces and obviously other Syrian groups that are aligned with turkey against the former.

Turkeys opponents, as in YPG, who are supported by USA, may be considered undeclared fair game, to show middle finger to trump now and then only if required or not at all. Still not a bad hand to hold if we are looking to get cosier with Russians than Americans.

The whole exercise with restrictions on just taking part in fight against the terrorist outfit of ISIL can be justified as a plus point over the basic reason of weapon's integration and testing, and as an opportunity to hit back at ISIL for its terrorist and recruitment activities inside Pakistan.

So it can be made to look like a situation that can be justified with respect to Iran, Syria and even Saudi Arabia at the same time and that's nothing short of a master stroke if achieved diplomatically in the guise of weapons integration and testing.

The basic benefit of supporting our Turkish brethren in their war aside, PAF shall get a lot of marketing mileage, experience and benefit of support, integration, testing and using Turkish weapons and subsystems with JF17 in actual war scenario.

Now let's discuss the key factor in the way of sending three JF17 jets to Turkey - Saudi Arabia.

The Saudis will be justified in asking why Turkey and why not send them to us for use in Yemen???
Again, the justifiable answer could be weapons integration and testing various Turkish subsystems with strikes on ISIL as just an added benefit.

Well, this concludes my two cents on the subject...war gaming and hypothetical situation are a much more detailed than the above and contentious matter so expect all sorts of reactions from other posters who may or may not agree with another pov.

Hi,

Just like the French were waiting for a war to prove their Rafale---and struck in Libya---.

 

[Shane]

Hi,

Just like the French were waiting for a war to prove their Rafale---and struck in Libya---.

All about risks and opportunities on world stage. A stronger nation makes the most of its opportunities.

Sadly we are too embroiled in internal matters and too weary of taking risks on international stage which are actually opportunities - a clear sign of our petrified foreign policy off late.

 

[MastanKhan]

I've spent my childhood in Turkey and Pakistani community back then was really limited in Izmir so were close, we've always had PAF presence there. 1-2 PAF pilots were always stationed there with their families in Izmir on a yearly rotation basis and they used to bring along F-7s for DACT as well. I suppose much hasnt changed.

PAF should not provide JF-17s as it will create precedent and we will be asked to do same for Saudia in Yemen.

Hi,

The title is misleading---it should be something like---

Pakistan Should Deploy 1/2 a Sqdrn of JF17's in Turkey:---

 

[khansaheeb]

J17 -v- Su57 is a risky business, not until we have assessed all the Su-57's full capabilities.

 

[Cookie Monster]

I think this is an opportunity for Pakistan and for the JF-17, an opportunity of a lifetime. Turkey is in its greatest struggle since the Cyprus crisis. It needs diplomatic support at minimum and would appreciate help, and surely remember it for a long time.

If a symbolic fleet of 4 JF-17s were loaned for the Olive Branch operation, it would give the JF-17 great publicity, one more combat proven badge, and help a friend in need (which is the biggest and most important aspect).

What do you think? I am not a Pakistani but I thought of sharing this idea as I think it's a win-win for everyone.

Turkey doesn't have pilots trained on JF17. So either Pak will have to also dedicate its own pilots or it will take some time for Turkish pilots to be trained on JF17.

Pak itself can't operate the planes for these operations without some geostrategic backlash since PKK is somewhat supported by US and Pak/US relations are already at an all time low. This only leaves the option of training Turkish pilots and providing jets...this could be done but will take time. In any case TuAF is in no need of jets, they have F16s in hundreds.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I think this is an opportunity for Pakistan and for the JF-17, an opportunity of a lifetime. Turkey is in its greatest struggle since the Cyprus crisis. It needs diplomatic support at minimum and would appreciate help, and surely remember it for a long time.

If a symbolic fleet of 4 JF-17s were loaned for the Olive Branch operation, it would give the JF-17 great publicity, one more combat proven badge, and help a friend in need (which is the biggest and most important aspect).

What do you think? I am not a Pakistani but I thought of sharing this idea as I think it's a win-win for everyone.

Nothing is dont without getting approval from uncle sam, sh1t PAK government needs permission before they can even fart!

 

[Zarvan]

Is this some kind of joke or what ?

 

[xyxmt]

The role of Jf17 and F16 is not the same. Why turkey will take a risk losing it's F16 when a low cost Jf17 can do the job.You should aware of SAM .The kurds are directly supported by the US government and USA can supply them any missile like patriot! nobody knows.My personal opinion is to stay away from this conflict because of its a regional politics.The kurds are muslim too.I am not a big supporter of killing another muslim brother for personal interest .

When muslim becomes a proxy for a non-muslim states against their own country then they must be crushed.

 

[MiG-35-BD]

I am really impressed at some of the well thought out posts here.

 

[MiG-35-BD]

An interesting point (or so I think):

F-16 pilot conversion to JF-17 is very easy. They have near identical symbology and flight characteristics. And the FBW systems make it even simpler. Plus the JF-17 is a lot simpler / easier to fly than the F-16.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

A couple of things to note.
A. Is there any evidence that the Turks hve asked for Pak involvement?
B. If we still want to say yes to Turkey then morally we have no reason to not be used as stooges for the Saudi misadventure. Unlike Turkey they have made demands on us.
C. If we get embroiled in the Kurdish controversy what are its implications for Pakistan. Would PKK not start fomenting unrest in Pakistan.
D. War is expensive business. Who is going to pay the cost of armaments and plane servicing that would be required on the Thunder. Are members suggesting that we foot the bill ourselves?
E. Why would the Turks even need us when they have 200 planes sitting on their Tarmac.
F. Has anyone even remotely considered that if we harm Iran's interests, what would be the consequences.
G. Has anyone realized what haplens to two muslims who fight in the Court of Allah izza wa Jal.
H. What political gains doea it provide us?
I. How would this be viewed in India when you send 1/2 ---1 squadron to Turkey. Would they take advantag3 of our weakness.
I think Pakistan should keep its nose out of matters that do not concern us. It would neither be helpful nor advisable
A

Its a fitna created by kuffars in the Muslims heartlands. If we don't deal with it, it will come knocking on our door in future. Nip it in the bud.

If we were left to fend for ourselves in immediate post 9/11 geopolitics, that doest mean we have to remain docile to the needs to others. Turkey is very well equipped to deal with the threats but if we put our name in their efforts, it will go a long way to send the message to kuffars. Sometimes, small gestures do count.

 

[GriffinsRule]

First we need to send JF-17s to the next Anatolian Eagle exercises. That will show the Turks how the jet performs in a simulated combat environment against their other assets and/or in conjunction with them. Then we can talk about sending a detachment over if they request it. It is also very likely that we may offer and they will politely decline.

 

[Signalian]

Can somebody explain in real statistics how the operational cost of JF-17 is lower than that of F-16 when used in a conflict ?