TuAF Alternative to F-35?
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MMM-E
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Russia and Iran are not threat to Turkey
The US,Israel,Greece,Egypt were allies against Turkey in the Eastern Mediterranean
and the US is threat to Turkey in Syria
Russia gives most lethal air defense system in the world S400 to Turkey
and even SU-35 with Turkish ,software , electronics , data link, AESA radar , weapons will be enough to match with Greek F-16V , Egyptian Rafale and SU-35 and Israeli F-16 , F-15 in the region
TF-X is on paper and Turkey needs 10-15 years to develop the TF-X
but SU-57 will be ready in a few yars
zectech
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If Turkey ever shares information with the Russians on the effectiveness of the S-400s against F-35s, the Amerikans would find out in minutes. putin's rabbis are trump's rabbi's. Both NATO vs Russia sides are controlled by Mossad. They work both sides against any free people.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...sh-group-that-connects-trump-and-putin-215007
Look at what the CIA and putin did to the Chechens.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/s...sh-group-that-connects-trump-and-putin-215007
Look at what the CIA and putin did to the Chechens.
Timur
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Y
Wow and I am gonna belive this just because they gave you their promises
You sound like @undertakerwwefan
Wow and I am gonna belive this just because they gave you their promises
Imran Khan
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turkey better lay down s-400 for now on until received some f-35
MMM-E
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and You sound like ignorant boy who know nothing about military
are you joke or what ? learn about politics and strategy
Iran is so weak to be threat to Turkey , even almost half of Iran is Turk
Russia is trying to be strategic partner with Turkey in the region
Russia invest $22 billion to build the first Nuclear Power Plant in Turkey
Russia invested billions of dollars to build Turkstream gas pipeline to replace Ukraine with Turkey for Russia's energy security
and the US-the EU wants to create energy corridor in the Eastern Mediterranean
Israel-Greece-Egypt with American-European helping are trying to export gas to Europe
and Russia is angry and Russia support Turkey because of Russia will lose tens of billions of dollars of gas export from Europe
Bismarck
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Why should Turkey share informations with Russia about her most lethal fighter jet?
Timur
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Yes politics you are a joke what do you think happens if you go and dance on the Russian side? You will make yourself much more relied on them you will piss of US and your fancy 100 Prozent toys will loose critical parts.. You think hailing the russians is a good idea... You didn't see what happened in Syria. No you can't see it . Do you really wanna see what ignorance will lead to as if turkey does not rely on us and EU if both now work together against us you will see the results
First off all you sound like someone who came out of mazhar Osman.. Just ignore history and praise them
If you were real than you would not act on whims and desires you need to show some balls but you don't have to declare war
MMM-E
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Turkey is NATO Member , and Turkey doesnt leave NATO
and Turkey develops all its own weapons including air defense systems and fighter jets
Turkey buys S400 from Russia because of Turkey needs urgently long range high altitude air defense system
and thanks to Russia for S400 and early delivery .. also S400 will use Turkish radar software and IFF system
also Russia allow Turkey to use S400 against everyone , everywhere
thanks to Russians that built the first textille , alliminium , steel , petrochemistry factories in Turkey also MKEK in Ankara
and now Russia invest $22 billion to build the first Nuclear Power Plant in Turkey
around 50% of total gas import from Russia
There are $100 billion of trade volume target between Turkey and Russia
and every year over 6 millions of Russians comes to Turkey for holiday
ERDOGAN is not stupid to become enemy to Russia .......... only FETO and American-European puppets can criticize Turkey to work with Russia
btw we have seen our so-called NATO allies the US,the UK,France,etc in Syria
our so-called NATO allies the US,the UK,France,etc support PKK/YPG terrorists against Turkey
also our so-called NATO allies the US,the UK,Germany support FETO terror organization since 2013 to destroy ERDOGAN and future of Turkish people
and our so-called NATO allies the US,the UK,France,Italy support Greece,Israel,Egypt against Turkey in the Eastern Mediterranean
Last edited:
Timur
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Man what puppet are you?? The kind wich is played without strings maybe.. You need to open your eyes blind following of ppl is not wise.. Didn't erdogan shoot down a russian plane? Hey I disliked it really and I knew it was a idea to follow uncle Sam but I just only supported turkey in this mess.. Claiming it feto won't change the fact that it was erdo just following uncle Sam's order... So who is stupid now? Just saying ppl are EU us feto follower if they do not have the same view as me is ignorance
So does Russia and Iran
hey even a pkk scum singer was in turkey our president and his wife was there and his wife cried as the singer sung about our soildiers killing them.. So what it's history everybody supported pkk and did not the right actions that should be taken since 40 years
MMM-E
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the US backed FETO pilots shot down Russian Fighter Jet to destroy relationship between Turkey and Russia
the US backed FETO police killed Russian ambassador to Turkey to destroy relationship between Turkey and Russia
no more time for FETO member like you
Turkey-Russia-Iran will continue working together .. we are neighbors
even Turkey, Russia, Iran agree to use local currencies in trade to kick American dollar
Yeah leaving NATO and coming closer to Russia/Iran would stop their actions against us.
Pathetic response from a eurocentrist but didnt expect something different either. Leaving wont mean getting closer to russia iran but building a functioning foreign policy based on turkeys realities. But nor the western centrist shitheads in turkey or the islamists are capable of following a neutral, rational foreign policy (partly because the population is backwards and divided into the western/eurocentrist and the islamists and the normal ones like me). So this is where it stands right now
and let me be clear im the one who opened the thread and i saw this shit already happening almost 2 years ago so 
monitor
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U.S. Withholding F-35 From Turkey Could Give Russia The Chance It Needs To Export SU-57
Russia may attempt to fill the vacuum created by a U.S. embargo on F-35 exports to Turkey with an export variant of its Su-57 advanced fighter.
By Tyler RogowayApril 2, 2019
Don't think anyone would claim it came as a surprise, but nonetheless, the U.S. deciding to hold back NATO ally Turkey's F-35 order and potentially curtailing its industrial involvement in the program is a major development. It’s also one that is nearly certain to push Turkey further into Moscow’s orbit and could offer Russia a unique and much-needed opportunity to export their Su-57 advanced fighter.
Pentagon Moves Closer To Cutting Turkey's Role In The F-35 Program If It Buys S-400 SAMsBy Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone
No, The Su-57 Isn't 'Junk:' Six Features We like On Russia's New FighterBy Tyler Rogoway Posted in The War Zone
Turkish Lawyers Demand Raid On Incirlik Air Base And Arrest Of U.S. Military PersonnelBy Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone
No, Russia's Su-57 Stealth Fighter Program Isn't Dead, At Least Not YetBy Joseph Trevithick and Tyler Rogoway Posted in The War Zone
Turkey's F-35 Rollout Ceremony Got Pretty, Pretty, WeirdBy Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone
On March 1st, 2019, Department of Defense spokesman Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Mike Andrews stated the following:
“Pending an unequivocal Turkish decision to forgo delivery of the S-400, deliveries and activities associated with the stand-up of Turkey’s F-35 operational capability have been suspended.”
Reuters reported that the next shipment of training equipment and all other F-35 related material to Turkey has been canceled. Acting Pentagon spokesman Charles Summers Jr. added more detail regarding the decision:
“The United States has been clear that Turkey’s acquisition of the S-400 is unacceptable... Until they forgo delivery of the S-400, the United States has suspended deliveries and activities associated with the stand-up of Turkey’s F-35 operational capability. Should Turkey procure the S-400, their continued participation in the F-35 program is at risk.”
Summers also added that the Pentagon is now actively looking for other sources to provide the Turkish-built parts currently being used on the F-35 in a move to protect "the resiliency supply chain" and "the shared investments in our critical technology."
JUST IN: Pentagon suspends delivery of F-35 equipment Turkey over Ankara’s deal to buy S-400 missile interceptors from Russia. The equipment is needed at bases that host the fighter jets. (H/t @MichaelStone who had the story first) pic.twitter.com/93mm78mP4n
— Marcus Weisgerber (@MarcusReports) April 1, 2019
F-35 components that are produced by Turkey.
Good graphic but sadly in Turkish. Says Turkish firms produced around $700 million worth of material and services so far
Source; Turkish Undersecretariat for Defense Industry pic.twitter.com/KmSjrD68KN
— Ragıp Soylu (@ragipsoylu) September 5, 2018
Congress is also working on tough legislation that could crystalize the Turkish F-35 embargo permanently.
The U.S. is at odds with its long-time ally over a number of issues, but Ankara's final decision to proceed with the purchase of the Russian-built S-400 air defense system is the driving factor behind the course correction. It is an issue we have followed very closely and you can read all about in our latest of many articles on the topic linked here. Suffice it to say that the technological and intellectual property risk of having a military operate America’s most advanced fighter jet and Russia’s most advanced air defense system concurrently is extremely high. Presumably, it would give the Russian’s unprecedented insight into the F-35’s systems, capabilities, and operating concepts.
USAF
Last week it became clear that Ankara has no intentions of backing down from its purchase of the S-400 system even as U.S. diplomats and Pentagon officials have made a full court press to get Turkey to purchase the U.S.-built Patriot system instead. The offer to sell the Patriot to Turkey expired formally on March 31, 2019.
In some ways, the S-400 purchase has acted as a fulcrum of sorts to showcase Turkish President Recep Erdogan’s independence from Washington’s influence—a narrative that has been increasingly cultivated since the failed military coup against Erdogan in the Summer of 2016. To this day, pro-Erdogan elements within the Turkish government accused the U.S. of being behind the operation without any hard evidence to back up such claims.
For the Kremlin, the news that the U.S. is suspending significant portions of Turkey’s involvement in the F-35 program, including potentially the fairly lucrative inclusion of Turkey’s aerospace and defense industrial base in it, couldn’t have come at a better time. Russia is now aggressively and very vocally trying to find a new export partner for its Su-57 fighter after India pulled the plug on its participation in the program.
UAC Aircraft
Russia, whose military has found itself increasingly cash-strapped, cannot afford these aircraft in significant numbers and will need an external revenue source to achieve any economies of scale with the type. Even its continued development may be increasingly in question without an export customer.
Turkey was set to buy 100 F-35. As such, it was one of the type’s largest customers. If Russia could secure that size of order for its Su-57 it would be a huge coup for the struggling program and could allow Russia to buy more of the jets itself than the dozen developmental aircraft it has currently and about another dozen on order. Specialized munitions development for the type could also be accelerated.
Russia could also offer extensive industrial offsets to fill the gap that the F-35 would leave behind and possibly even much more. Direct technology transfer is also possible. Turkey would find this extremely attractive as it continues to work on its own 5th generation fighter aircraft, the TF-X, that isn't slated to be delivered until the early 2030s at the soonest.
Above all else, the Su-57, or even a combination of Su-57s and Su-35s, would be able to be directly integrated with the S-400 air defense system without caveat.
AP
We must underscore that the Su-57 is no F-35, but it does have some unique features that make it a formidable fighter assuming they all operate as advertised. You can read our whole analysis on the Su-57 and how it is chronically misunderstood in this past feature of ours. Turkey currently flies a mix of two American fighter types. It continues to operate aging F-4 Phantoms that are in need of replacement and is one of the world's largest operators of the F-16 Viper.
There is also talk that Russia is eyeing China as a possible export customer for their notional "Su-57E." That would be a puzzling choice for Beijing, a country that has two stealth fighter designs already flying, one of which is in service. But China may be willing to buy a batch of the jets anyway. They have made similar moves in the past, such as the purchase of Su-35s even though a number of Flanker clones are being produced indigenously. If Russia was willing to share critical engine technology with China—an area of expertise in which China is still lagging behind its competitors and their major aerospace programs are suffering as a result—could in itself push Beijing to become and Su-57E operator.
There is even a glimmer of renewed hope that India would come back to the table and rejoin the program after the loss of a MiG-21 Bison during a high-profile aerial skirmish with Pakistan that occurred in late February. Still, this is a longshot as India has multiple fighter import programs ongoing as well as what looks like an order for additional Su-30MKIs and refurbished MiG-29s to help offset continued losses of its geriatric MiG-21 and MiG-27 fleets.
So, as you can see, Turkey could become a very exciting Su-57 export opportunity for Russia if Ankara continues to move away from the U.S. and its NATO allies, and certainly rumblings of such a sale have been ongoing for some time. Doing so would also help Moscow deepen the divide between NATO and one of its most powerful member states.
UAC Aircraft
The big question remains just how far will Turkey's slide away from the alliance that helped define it as a modern military power. All this also puts into question the U.S.-Turkish relationship as a whole. What on earth is the U.S. doing having deployed tactical nuclear weapons in a country it no longer can trust even to even operate its latest export fighter—one that is being bought by a significant number of allies, with Singapore being the latest country to sign up for the stealth jets. Additionally, the situation also should raise concerns about the technological risk posed by Turkey's large existing fleet of advanced American combat aircraft types, which includes the highly advanced E-7 Wedgetail Airborne Early Warning and Control aircraft and Block 50 F-16C/Ds.
Clearly, the U.S. is preparing for an age in which Turkey is no longer considered a close ally, one in which using its airspace and Incirlik Air Base as a staging point for military operations in the region no longer exists. Case in point, America's plans to drastically expand its air base facilities in Jordan. But logistics are only one part of an avalanche of issues a non-aligned Turkey could bring on, the largest of which have to do with the country's future membership in the NATO alliance.
In the meantime, the country won't be receiving any F-35s and the handful that have already been delivered will be put into storage until further notice.
We will keep you up to date as this saga unfolds.
Contact the author: Tyler@thedrive.com
Russia may attempt to fill the vacuum created by a U.S. embargo on F-35 exports to Turkey with an export variant of its Su-57 advanced fighter.
By Tyler RogowayApril 2, 2019
Don't think anyone would claim it came as a surprise, but nonetheless, the U.S. deciding to hold back NATO ally Turkey's F-35 order and potentially curtailing its industrial involvement in the program is a major development. It’s also one that is nearly certain to push Turkey further into Moscow’s orbit and could offer Russia a unique and much-needed opportunity to export their Su-57 advanced fighter.
Pentagon Moves Closer To Cutting Turkey's Role In The F-35 Program If It Buys S-400 SAMsBy Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone
No, The Su-57 Isn't 'Junk:' Six Features We like On Russia's New FighterBy Tyler Rogoway Posted in The War Zone
Turkish Lawyers Demand Raid On Incirlik Air Base And Arrest Of U.S. Military PersonnelBy Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone
No, Russia's Su-57 Stealth Fighter Program Isn't Dead, At Least Not YetBy Joseph Trevithick and Tyler Rogoway Posted in The War Zone
Turkey's F-35 Rollout Ceremony Got Pretty, Pretty, WeirdBy Joseph Trevithick Posted in The War Zone
On March 1st, 2019, Department of Defense spokesman Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Mike Andrews stated the following:
“Pending an unequivocal Turkish decision to forgo delivery of the S-400, deliveries and activities associated with the stand-up of Turkey’s F-35 operational capability have been suspended.”
Reuters reported that the next shipment of training equipment and all other F-35 related material to Turkey has been canceled. Acting Pentagon spokesman Charles Summers Jr. added more detail regarding the decision:
“The United States has been clear that Turkey’s acquisition of the S-400 is unacceptable... Until they forgo delivery of the S-400, the United States has suspended deliveries and activities associated with the stand-up of Turkey’s F-35 operational capability. Should Turkey procure the S-400, their continued participation in the F-35 program is at risk.”
Summers also added that the Pentagon is now actively looking for other sources to provide the Turkish-built parts currently being used on the F-35 in a move to protect "the resiliency supply chain" and "the shared investments in our critical technology."
JUST IN: Pentagon suspends delivery of F-35 equipment Turkey over Ankara’s deal to buy S-400 missile interceptors from Russia. The equipment is needed at bases that host the fighter jets. (H/t @MichaelStone who had the story first) pic.twitter.com/93mm78mP4n
— Marcus Weisgerber (@MarcusReports) April 1, 2019
F-35 components that are produced by Turkey.
Good graphic but sadly in Turkish. Says Turkish firms produced around $700 million worth of material and services so far
Source; Turkish Undersecretariat for Defense Industry pic.twitter.com/KmSjrD68KN
— Ragıp Soylu (@ragipsoylu) September 5, 2018
Congress is also working on tough legislation that could crystalize the Turkish F-35 embargo permanently.
The U.S. is at odds with its long-time ally over a number of issues, but Ankara's final decision to proceed with the purchase of the Russian-built S-400 air defense system is the driving factor behind the course correction. It is an issue we have followed very closely and you can read all about in our latest of many articles on the topic linked here. Suffice it to say that the technological and intellectual property risk of having a military operate America’s most advanced fighter jet and Russia’s most advanced air defense system concurrently is extremely high. Presumably, it would give the Russian’s unprecedented insight into the F-35’s systems, capabilities, and operating concepts.
USAF
Last week it became clear that Ankara has no intentions of backing down from its purchase of the S-400 system even as U.S. diplomats and Pentagon officials have made a full court press to get Turkey to purchase the U.S.-built Patriot system instead. The offer to sell the Patriot to Turkey expired formally on March 31, 2019.
In some ways, the S-400 purchase has acted as a fulcrum of sorts to showcase Turkish President Recep Erdogan’s independence from Washington’s influence—a narrative that has been increasingly cultivated since the failed military coup against Erdogan in the Summer of 2016. To this day, pro-Erdogan elements within the Turkish government accused the U.S. of being behind the operation without any hard evidence to back up such claims.
For the Kremlin, the news that the U.S. is suspending significant portions of Turkey’s involvement in the F-35 program, including potentially the fairly lucrative inclusion of Turkey’s aerospace and defense industrial base in it, couldn’t have come at a better time. Russia is now aggressively and very vocally trying to find a new export partner for its Su-57 fighter after India pulled the plug on its participation in the program.
UAC Aircraft
Russia, whose military has found itself increasingly cash-strapped, cannot afford these aircraft in significant numbers and will need an external revenue source to achieve any economies of scale with the type. Even its continued development may be increasingly in question without an export customer.
Turkey was set to buy 100 F-35. As such, it was one of the type’s largest customers. If Russia could secure that size of order for its Su-57 it would be a huge coup for the struggling program and could allow Russia to buy more of the jets itself than the dozen developmental aircraft it has currently and about another dozen on order. Specialized munitions development for the type could also be accelerated.
Russia could also offer extensive industrial offsets to fill the gap that the F-35 would leave behind and possibly even much more. Direct technology transfer is also possible. Turkey would find this extremely attractive as it continues to work on its own 5th generation fighter aircraft, the TF-X, that isn't slated to be delivered until the early 2030s at the soonest.
Above all else, the Su-57, or even a combination of Su-57s and Su-35s, would be able to be directly integrated with the S-400 air defense system without caveat.
AP
We must underscore that the Su-57 is no F-35, but it does have some unique features that make it a formidable fighter assuming they all operate as advertised. You can read our whole analysis on the Su-57 and how it is chronically misunderstood in this past feature of ours. Turkey currently flies a mix of two American fighter types. It continues to operate aging F-4 Phantoms that are in need of replacement and is one of the world's largest operators of the F-16 Viper.
There is also talk that Russia is eyeing China as a possible export customer for their notional "Su-57E." That would be a puzzling choice for Beijing, a country that has two stealth fighter designs already flying, one of which is in service. But China may be willing to buy a batch of the jets anyway. They have made similar moves in the past, such as the purchase of Su-35s even though a number of Flanker clones are being produced indigenously. If Russia was willing to share critical engine technology with China—an area of expertise in which China is still lagging behind its competitors and their major aerospace programs are suffering as a result—could in itself push Beijing to become and Su-57E operator.
There is even a glimmer of renewed hope that India would come back to the table and rejoin the program after the loss of a MiG-21 Bison during a high-profile aerial skirmish with Pakistan that occurred in late February. Still, this is a longshot as India has multiple fighter import programs ongoing as well as what looks like an order for additional Su-30MKIs and refurbished MiG-29s to help offset continued losses of its geriatric MiG-21 and MiG-27 fleets.
So, as you can see, Turkey could become a very exciting Su-57 export opportunity for Russia if Ankara continues to move away from the U.S. and its NATO allies, and certainly rumblings of such a sale have been ongoing for some time. Doing so would also help Moscow deepen the divide between NATO and one of its most powerful member states.
UAC Aircraft
The big question remains just how far will Turkey's slide away from the alliance that helped define it as a modern military power. All this also puts into question the U.S.-Turkish relationship as a whole. What on earth is the U.S. doing having deployed tactical nuclear weapons in a country it no longer can trust even to even operate its latest export fighter—one that is being bought by a significant number of allies, with Singapore being the latest country to sign up for the stealth jets. Additionally, the situation also should raise concerns about the technological risk posed by Turkey's large existing fleet of advanced American combat aircraft types, which includes the highly advanced E-7 Wedgetail Airborne Early Warning and Control aircraft and Block 50 F-16C/Ds.
Clearly, the U.S. is preparing for an age in which Turkey is no longer considered a close ally, one in which using its airspace and Incirlik Air Base as a staging point for military operations in the region no longer exists. Case in point, America's plans to drastically expand its air base facilities in Jordan. But logistics are only one part of an avalanche of issues a non-aligned Turkey could bring on, the largest of which have to do with the country's future membership in the NATO alliance.
In the meantime, the country won't be receiving any F-35s and the handful that have already been delivered will be put into storage until further notice.
We will keep you up to date as this saga unfolds.
Contact the author: Tyler@thedrive.com
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