Tough love! Modi’s raising Balochistan doesnt mean he has abandoned hopes of a historic peace

[Levina]

I predicted rise of Kashmir Movement which will bring bloodshed and ultimately severe friction with in India.
I told you that time to mark my words, and you Said "Marked".
Now look at Kashmir and compare it with my words year ago.
The post about Kashmir being cancer to India itself, ...... Remember?

Kashmir movement- happens 70years after partition.
Doesn't that tell you something is wrong.


I rest my case here.

 

[Tipu7]

Movement is same.
Chapters are new. As book is not completely written yet. Chapters written with ink of blood cause curse ....

Kashmir movement- happens 70years after partition.
Doesn't that tell you something is wrong.


I rest my case here.

 

[Roybot]

You can no longer deny reality by blaming every thing on hypothetical border crossing "terrorists"

?

Yeah right hypothetical, that's why majority of LeT terroriss happen to be to be from Pakistan.!

We have dealt with Afghan mujahedeen, Pakistani LeT terrorists, these so called home grown ones are nothing more than nuisance. So bring it, more fertilizer for our soil !

https://www.ctc.usma.edu/v2/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Fighters-of-LeT_Final.pdf

 

[Arsalan]

The kashmir solution- what is it that we expect?

Frankly, not much!! Our leadership is not mature enough and our general public is way too emotional!

Dont Pakistan and India both have kashmir? Lets call it West and East kashmir, respectively.
India has a huge muslim population, as you know it, we have just as many muslims in our country as you do in Pakistan. So ppl of Kashmir(only the valley which has a muslim majority) have no reason to feel threatened. I do not think they feel threatened, its just that many here claim so.
Once again, what solution do we expect?
I expect ISI to stop funding radicalism in the valley. ISI was caught with its hands in the cookie jar many times.
When the funding dries up, the protests will go down too.
Balochistan, is something that most of the Indians werent even aware of, until Modi mentioned it on 15th aug. So you dont have to worry that India would poke its nose into your internal affairs.

We cannot decide what to do with Kashmir without consulting the Kashmiries first. Long lasting peace will only be ensured when they are the main party in any resolution. As for the reason of being threatened, the recent rise in Hindhu nationalism is one reason to be threatened of. I hope that is addressed and dealt with. The plight of minorities is not very encouraging if the reports are to go by!

lolz, not that ISI funding debate again. We can keep dragging the argument with ISI in Kashmir, RAW in KPK debate and NOTHING will happen. This is the very reason i said i do not expect much.

Kashmir movement- happens 70years after partition.
Doesn't that tell you something is wrong.


I rest my case here.

70 years after partition? You need to read a bit more about this or are you purposely ignoring what you already know?

 

[Levina]

I have had good friends from Pakistan

Don't start off. I didn't blame it on you.

@Arsalan
I Hv got to pack my bags or I will miss my flight.

Will reply back in detail later.
Ciao.

 

[Arsalan]

Don't start off. I didn't blame it on you.

@Arsalan
I Hv got to pack my bags or I will miss my flight.

Will reply back in detail later.
Ciao.

Safe Journey!!


But....

@Arsalan

I have seen the effect of report. Squat. You think I have not tried all sensible and rationale means of dealing with the inaccuracies? Yesterday I have been harangued with a member Areesh. He has been reported by me for two weeks now, for deliberate baiting and frank abuses. See him streaming through threads.

I had to resort to the useless post I posted for it, just to demonstrate the persistence of inaccuracies. There is no other way.

I am not questioning your pointing it out, I have never taken your post otherwise ever. However, it was a jest which aparently has been taken in the wrong sense, aimed at giving the said gentleman a message.

Unfortunate.

I do not agree with you on this. Report any post that is against the rules (not the ones that you do not like) and action is ALWAYS taken against them. What we all need to understand that these members with titles are also humans and sometimes there may be some delay in response or somethings may even be missed but overall this is among the most unbiased and well moderated forum on internet.

Anyway, i will look into the other complaints you have as soon as i can and will try to bring Moderators on board to resolve such problems. However again, please do not reply a troll with a troll post. This hold true for EVERYONE!!

 

[Areesh]

Seriously?
This is what i read is the history of Baluchistan>>>
View attachment 326887
source
tell me if its wrong.

So your proof is Wikipedia. Lolzzz

Anyways if you want to read in details about Baluchistan's accession with Pakistan then you can read it all here:

http://truthaboutbalochistan.blogspot.com/2014/07/accession-of-kalat-myth-or-reality.html

Anyways Baluchistan accession was far more peaceful, legal and less violent than India's occupation of Hyderabad.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24159594

and now since Modi government has allowed Pakistan to interfere in its internal affairs, we can raise this massacre with you as well.

 

[WAJsal]

It says "Modi has not abandoned hope for historic peace".

Any peace would mean India talking on Kashmir, for now it is too scared of the name. Your jump in policy is not helping the cause. The Jammu and Kashmir assembly has an official stance that referendum should be held in Kashmir(this CM's speech, wait i'll try to find it). India doesn't even want to discuss Kashmir, forget about any referendum. So historic peace is not in picture until and unless you have a leadership in India who is willing to talk to Kashmir, which Modi is not. So i will have to disagree with you here.
Would be too stupid not to mention the assurances Nehru gave to us as people who should be given the right to choose.

2. You claim that India has meddled into Pakistan's affairs. Amnesty international, which is often resorted to by Pakistani members, had this to say about Baluchistan>>>

http://web.archive.org/web/20101027...urder-and-torture-baloch-activists-2010-10-26

3. India and its support has exacerbated the issue in Baluchistan- again something you guys claim but this is what i read

source
Now these are some credible people who have denied taking pakistan's allegations seriously. If it were to be put succinctly then, pull up your socks and get going. Stop blaming India for everything that's going wrong inside Pakistan.
4. Modi's statement came after baloch people asked for India's intervention.

source

What is this? I just made a mention of Modi taking pride in terrorist thanking him for supporting them, what more evidence do you seek. This is becoming a joke.
Didn't we catch your agent in action, then there are NDS agents. RAW is quite good, NDS is a weak link sometimes. Too easy to track NDS goons. Trust me there is more than enough proof, something that is officialy present. Now i can't help delusion especially if one can't see it when his PM is pretty much confessing to it.
Why did he forget to mention 'thank you' notes he gets from Mullah Radio?

4. Modi's statement came after baloch people asked for India's intervention.

Do you want to know what Baluchistan's really wants India to do?
http://www.dawn.com/news/1278375/zehri-slams-modi-says-no-comparison-between-kashmir-and-balochistan

Please look at the protest against India held today in different parts of Balochistan, and if you still believe otherwise. Don't interfere in our personal issues, we know you have a knack of doing so. Wouldn't miss any opportunity to break Pakistan, especially with PM like Modi who hates Pakistan from the core.

 

[Dash]

Pehele Kashmir Palestine banega phir kisi aur ka. At least before "banega Pakistan"

 

[Arsalan]

Pehele Kashmir Palestine banega phir kisi aur ka. At least before "banega Pakistan"

I see not much difference as of now either!

 

[Joe Shearer]

That is a misstatement, India was meddling in the affairs of East Pakistan by the early to mid 60's via its various connections with Bengali dissidents who occupied positions of power. Then in Sri Lanka, and in Burma.. until this facade of self righteousness is ditched by Indians; neither side will ever sit down to talk. Each will think their high horse is better, and in my case.. leave me uninterested in any discussion.

Since you mention it, @Oscar , this goes back to the 1930s. The Bengali dissidents that you mention were not a single-flavoured spread, they included leaders like Fazlul Haq, Suhrawardy, warts and all, Maulana Bhashani and Mujib as a bit player. The Agartala Conspiracy case was probably a case based on a genuine attempt at seeking political options outside Pakistan, but it was not necessarily an option for India. India was just a willing taxi hired for the ride.

You have to remember also that bureaucratic politics in India had a lot more to do with this than with interfering with Pakistan. In those days, there was no separate intelligence agency to handle matters outside the country; it was still the IB. Under B. N. Mallik, the reputation of the IB had taken a terrible beating in the period 1959 to 1962. There is reason to believe that Mallik's very poor interpretation of very diffuse data about the Chinese in Tibet contributed to the comprehensive nature of the military setback, and this was increasingly being hinted at in bureaucratic circles; Mallik was too powerful, almost an Edgar Hoover-like figure, in those days to be attacked directly. Under him, and under his successor, there was an amount of quiet desperation to show something stunning and out of the box to regain the agency's reputation in the world of the Delhi bureaucracy. Eagerly drawing up chairs and sitting at the table with the disgruntled East Pakistanis was part of this.

You must also be aware of how little of substance was discussed and even lesser substance found expression in action.

Every word that you have written is correct. And then there is the context. The dates show us something interesting. The conversations are supposed to have taken place in 1967 and the matter came to a head in 1968. If you look up what was happening, what the brave Shamsul Alam, the then Director of ISI in Bangladesh, was doing in the rest of his time, you will get very interesting results. If you wish, I will post you the references to the academic exegesis of the ISI involvement in the Mizo uprising. This was not a conversation; this was arming an entire rebellion, and forming camps, and pumping in money, and allowing the rebels to take shelter in the Chittagong Hills, until Bangladesh happened, after which the rebels first went to Burma, found it hideously primitive, and preferred to return to the few comforts that they had gathered with the ISI; they returned to Bangladesh, which had by then got rid of Mujib in a time-hallowed manner, and welcomed them back.

Working out who made the first move is not as straightforward as we might think. An history of this region's intelligence by-play would make very curious reading, but in a role of specific advocacy, I would like to argue that we followed suit, never using trumps.

 

[Dash]

I see not much difference as of now either!

Just area hasn't shrunk.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

last i heard he was got admission in an university for post graduation. So I'm assuming hes studying.

Yup, right you are.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You know what, THEY do worry!! They worry because if the problem is resolved the relations will improve rapidly!! You have a huge Muslim population, we share some cultural values, there are many differences but there are commonalities as well. So once we settle Kashmir problem and then do not poke our noses where they do not belong, the relations will improve. So THEY do care!! They worry in fact!! The problem is OUR PEOPLE who do not realize this simple fact. This is the reason i always say that the Kashmir issue have to be resolved and it will be India, Pakistan and Kashmiris who will sit together and resolve it, it wont happen by itself! It haven't for 70 off years!! This is one of those problems where delaying ta


To tell the truth, there have been plans in the making for decades, plans which never left the drawing board, plans which were put in action, plans which failed and those which succeeded! The fact remains that here we are, both of us, full of animosity and anger and intolerant towards each other but still, here we are!! BOTH OF US!! Kashmir burns and the sad part if that non of those plans did any thing to change that. As long as our plans involve pulling legs things wont change. The sooner you and us realize that the better!



Only if you had something better to add to the discussion!!
Pity!!

Isn't it obvious?


True!!
This facade of righteousness is the problem that is stopping us from resolving the REAL problem. The sad reality is, if the discussion on this forum and the attitude of the members is anything to go by, i do not see this change happening anytime soon!

@Arsalan

Please see the passage in red. You seem to have written that in response to this:

Joe Shearer said: ↑

The plan is quite hardened. I shudder in laughter at the consequences of it. But appreciate it, albeit it could have been 20 years back or right after 1971. Ask @Joe Shearer. I am afraid that is all I can speak. Beyond is not my domain.

I never said that!

Please tell me that we don't have two Joe Shearers on the forum.

 

[waz]

Sir,
Unlike many members, neither have you brought in Kashmir nor have you accused India of meddling into pak's affairs.
Infact, your post helps me understand the Baloch issue better. So far, I knew it as one of the poorest province of Pakistan.
IMO, what has caused resentment among Balochis, is the fact that skilled labourers are often brought from outside. I also read, its the migration of Pashtun which drives insurgency in the region.
what is it that causes development issues in the region and how has your govt tackled it so far?

Thank you for your kind words. It is indeed the poorest, a large part of this is due to the entrenched feudal culture. Some skilled labourers are bought in, but the numbers are tiny, in actual fact when a few workers from the Punjab were killed there, people just snubbed the region. Now there is a massive skills gap.
As for development, the lack of schooling is a major problem. There isn't any industry and the infrastructure is appalling.
As for the government, the citizens of the land of my forefathers has to hold them to account. They won't listen to a third generation walati pittu like me.