To whom does the term 'Aryan' belong?

[ExtraOdinary]

to bold part. in mahabharata the dravidian god defeats the vedic aryan god

You have no idea what you are talking about, your ignorance is astonishing

so 75% speak Aryan language? and what was that ? does it turn Indian Hindu race into Aryans?

There was never a race called Aryans. Indo-Aryan were a set of languages spoken by people. Genetic markers have indicated even the ancestors of South Indians came from Iran/ Central Asia.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Was staying out of this thread till I saw your reply. West Iran was unknown even to ancient Iranians themselves. The word Aryan seems to have been used originally by the people of the Rg veda, specifically a sub sect of one of the tribes - the Bharatas of the Puru tribe. How it went on to encompass all the other tribes & the connection to Iran remains a mystery.

[delurking]

Was staying out of this thread, etc........

A mystery only if you insist on OOI.

Otherwise the term is used by the Iranians consistently for themselves; the name Iranian itself is derived from

The name of Iran (ایرا&#1606 is the Modern Persian derivative from the Proto-Iranian term Aryānā,, meaning "Land of the Aryans", first attested in Zoroastrianism's Avesta tradition

[re-lurking]

 

[Kavin]

I don't think the term 'Man' belongs to English, Germans, Dutch and Indians only.

Old English man(n), (plural) menn (noun), mannian (verb), of Germanic origin; related to Dutch man, German Mann, and Sanskrit manu 'mankind'

-(Oxford)

 

[Bang Galore]

[delurking]

Was staying out of this thread, etc........

A mystery only if you insist on OOI.

Otherwise the term is used by the Iranians consistently for themselves; the name Iranian itself is derived from



[re-lurking]

Certainly not a proponent of the OOI, I have said what you pointed out about the Iranians in another post of mine. That is accepted fact. I used mystery loosely because of how the Rg veda treats that word.

Though people who chose to could probably use it if they resided in what was called "Aryavarta"(abode of the Aryans) & "Aryanam/Airyanem"(land of the Aryans), the first referring to a large part of N.India & the second referring to Iran.

I don't like getting dragged into these threads anymore. @Joe Shearer is mostly missing and even if he is around, we have been through this rigmarole before, there is nothing new to argue over. Boring repeating the same old assertions to other people who will ask you the same question or some variation of that a few posts later. Tiring.

 

[Azazel]

This whole excercise by Indians on Aryan race is to proof that Indian Hindus are aryan and NOT dravidians.

If one ask you if you are aryans then why you do NOT eat Cow meat? why do you have idols whereas vedic Aryans were not idolworshipers.

why Indians are having this aryan complex by the way ? are you NOT proud of your Dravidian heritage?

Lady,Go and study some history,The classifications of Aryan and Dravidian were all made by Victorian era western intellectually who had their own weird and half baked racial prejudices.The word drāviḍa is actually to be a Sanskitization of a name found as dameḍa or damela referring to Tamil merchants in early Sinhala inscriptions.The English word "Aryan" is borrowed from the Sanskrit word ārya meaning 'Noble'.Both these words had nothing to do with race or linguistics until some western scholars started to use it in that context.There were never any Aryans or Dravidians until 19th century.Most of the Indians don't give a damn about such nonsense.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Not only it srate that it was cold it also state that it was north . And how recorded histiry if iran is for 900bce while elam date back 2700bc

By the way there is such finding
PressTV - Aryan settlements found in Siberia

4000-year-old Aryan city discovered in Russia - Times Of India

Ancient Aryan settlements found in Siberia | The New Order

Elam dates back to 2700 BC based on archaeology, not on recorded history.

It will help you to understand if you look up these three definitions, which everyone persists in running into one:

History
Proto-history
Pre-history

They are not the same. Knowing that Elam existed, and that there was a strong Persian/Iranian presence in the south-west, in the Tigris-Euphrates area, is not the same as having a history of that period.

Not only it srate that it was cold it also state that it was north . And how recorded histiry if iran is for 900bce while elam date back 2700bc

By the way there is such finding
http://www.presstv.com/detail/145371.html

http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...241450_1_aryan-settlements-aerial-photography

http://www.theneworder.org/news/2010/10/ancient-aryan-settlements-found-in-siberia/

Russian findings, which were known some decades ago within Russia, but have become public knowledge only painfully slowly in the rest of the world, are archaeological records. There is nothing to show what language was spoken by the people from those archaeological remains.

Calling them Aryan or Indo-Aryan or Indo-Iranian or Proto-Indo-European will mean that we will get beaten up by @Bang Galore. You don't want to get beaten up by him. He packs a mean knuckle-duster.

 

[Dubious]

Sceintific proof tell that there percentage of gene found more in a particular area. Punjabis, pathans and also Kashmirs also consists of people who are dark skinned and dravidian like features.

there is no such thing as pure race in Indian Sub continent.

Even Pakistanis have the features of South Indians, there are also dark skinned people in Pakistan.

@Srinivas really? Do you think the research was done ONLY on skin colour? Is that the ONLY thing DNA tells? Or is it your inferiority complex talking? I was talking about DNA being different...indicating differences....and skin colour ISNT THE ONLY thing DNA can tell!!

That's the same study, only a different link. It says this too.




Further reading:

http://www.ias.ac.in/jbiosci/nov2012/911.pdf

@Bang Galore Ahh of course an Indian produced journal will tell us more than an internationally renowned journal such as Nature (i.e. the link i posted)...

mhhh as a noob ex bio student, I was referring to the true biological meaning of race:

"While scientists use the concept of race to make practical distinctions among fuzzy sets of traits, the scientific community feels that the idea of race is often used by the general public[6] in a naïve[7] or simplistic way, erroneously designating wholly discrete types of individuals. Among humans, race has no cladistic significance—all people belong to the same hominid subspecies, Homo sapiens sapiens"

@Koovie Science doesnt even have a clad known as race

 

[Aka123]

This thread here can turn into a nasty troll thread. @WebMaster - Can you please close it. I think racial discussion is a band topic here.

 

[Srinivas]

Your taking about Partha (Arjuna of Mahabharata) ... i am taking about Kartavirya Arjuna ... who defeated Ravana in Ramayan , who killed Parashurams Father Jamadagni & was ultimately killed by Parashurama ...

Most of the remaining Suryavanshi clans of India are descendants of Kartavirya ... & most of Suryavanshi where annihilated by Parashurama ... so the Yadava took their place during Lord Krishans time...

Thank you mate for you info. I didn't know that

@Srinivas really? Do you think the research was done ONLY on skin colour? Is that the ONLY thing DNA tells? Or is it your inferiority complex talking? I was talking about DNA being different...indicating differences....and skin colour ISNT THE ONLY thing DNA can tell!!


@Bang Galore Ahh of course an Indian produced journal will tell us more than an internationally renowned journal such as Nature (i.e. the link i posted)...



@Koovie Science doesnt even have a clad known as race

I am not talking only about skin color, there are lot of things which indicates lot of mixing happened during the course for thousands of years.

I will prove you wrong, but not right now.

 

[Bang Galore]

[MENTION=19542]

@Bang Galore Ahh of course an Indian produced journal will tell us more than an internationally renowned journal such as Nature (i.e. the link i posted)...

They are all the very same authors, just expanding on the topic....... At the very least bother to look up names if you are going to be citing them.

Calling them Aryan or Indo-Aryan or Indo-Iranian or Proto-Indo-European will mean that we will get beaten up by @Bang Galore. You don't want to get beaten up by him. He packs a mean knuckle-duster.

As opposed to @Joe Shearer who will just run a road roller over you & then back again just to be sure.

 

[Zabaniyah]

'Aryan' is not a race, it's a caste.

Those white supremacists are stupid people. By the way, 'Aryan' discussions are banned here.

My blood is red, your blood is red. Deal with it.

 

[ExtraOdinary]

'Aryan' is not a race, it's a caste.

Those white supremacists are stupid people. By the way, 'Aryan' discussions are banned here.

My blood is red, your blood is red. Deal with it.

Loki bhai where is that interesting BD member @Sheikh Shakib Ahmed, I would love to hear his opinion on this thread

 

[Zabaniyah]

Loki bhai where is that interesting BD member @Sheikh Shakib Ahmed, I would love to hear his opinion on this thread

I'm afraid he's in therapy session. He admitted it himself

 

[curioususer]

The Indians bank on Regvida for the word Aryan but at the same time they reject what Rigveda says about Aryans and their culture and religion , by citing harvard and other researches

What does Rig Veda say about Aryans?

 

[LaBong]

This whole excercise by Indians on Aryan race is to proof that Indian Hindus are aryan and NOT dravidians.

If one ask you if you are aryans then why you do NOT eat Cow meat? why do you have idols whereas vedic Aryans were not idolworshipers.

why Indians are having this aryan complex by the way ? are you NOT proud of your dravidian heritage?

You have pretty screwed idea of who's aryans and who's not. Neither eating beef nor idol worshiping make anyone aryans, but speaking indo aryan languages does.

Just FYI, idol worshiping in subcontinent was started by a particular branch of Buddhism which flourished in present day Pakistan.