Tipu Sultan's weapons auctioned for six million pounds

[vegav]

All muslims are not brothers but all Pakistanis are. No need to get all hurt like that.

who is hurt?

main toh bas haqeeqat bata raha hoon.

 

[Samandri]

I read in a book that Nizams rejected the marriage proposal for their daughter from Tipu for his son, as according to them Tipu/hyder ali were of base origin. Most probably they were local native muslims. He was definitely not of arab descent as one of his wife was from the family of arabs settled in south India. I have forgotten the name of that wife , she used to boast about her arab descent to tipu and remind him of his non-special origin.

 

[vegav]

tipu also lied,he was just using the tendency of muslims to group together in the name of religion.

anyway,he is a guy who just came and went.in the hours of identity crisis of the subcontinent muslims,he becomes a figure.

I read in a book that Nizams rejected the marriage proposal for their daughter from Tipu for his son, as according to them Tipu/hyder ali were of base origin. Most probably they were local native muslims. He was definitely not of arab descent as one of his wife was from the family of arabs settled in south India. I have forgotten the name of that wife , she used to boast about her arab descent to tipu and remind him of his non-special origin.

Tipu and Hyder Ali were most likely local soldier class converts,there are many like him.

 

[Samandri]

Indians/Hindus despise Tipu Sultan, their heroes are Marathas and Sikhs

tipu also lied,he was just using the tendency of muslims to group together in the name of religion.

anyway,he is a guy who just came and went.in the hours of identity crisis of the subcontinent muslims,he becomes a figure.



Tipu and Hyder Ali were most likely local soldier class converts,there are many like him.

Tipu Sultan and Hyder Ali were true heroes, better than your Marathas

 

[vegav]

they are nothing compared to the marathas/sikhs/rajputs.

Thats why their history is shady and their descendants are nowhere.

Tipu was an oppurtunist,he never had any imaan and thats why he died like a dog.

 

[Samandri]

they are nothing compared to the marathas/sikhs/rajputs.

Thats why their history is shady and their descendants are nowhere.

Tipu was an oppurtunist,he never had any imaan and thats why he died like a dog.

Nope , you hindus despise him because he was a muslim, not just by name, but a good practical muslim......there are no other particular reasons

 

[SarthakGanguly]

When a person converts, effects of his ancestral religion only lingers for a generation of two. After that the progeny becomes follower of purer religion.

My post was with respect to Tipu's short reign and his immediate downfall. It happened within the same generation. What you stated is very true, very well written and fits the general trend perfectly.

You have missed the most important point: The role of collective memories.

When a person converts, effects of his ancestral religion only lingers for a generation of two. After that the progeny becomes follower of purer religion.

Exception to this are groups which maintain their identity separate from Islam (or other religion). Among Indian converts, only Rajputs did it, and Ghar Wapsi/reconversion process has been most successful among them in India. A person who destroys his identity or is made to destroy his identity by forcing a fake arabian surname and origin story become like most of Pakistanis, someone who think that he is purest muslim (an Arab, a Turk, or a Persian) even though the people he is trying to associate with piss on him. It become a kind of delusional echo chamber. Acknowledging that he is someone who has been forced to convert on swordpoint becomes humiliating to him, hence these tales "my ancestors came with Bin Qasim's army" originate to hide one's wounded pride. OR residual identity could turn one into a Persian, always viscerally hateful of Arabs or purest of pure Muslims. The current Shia-Sunni war is rooted in wounded "Persian identity" , which if had not found expressing in different version of Islam, would have probably expressed itself in Persian leaving Islam for Zorastarianism en mass. Another cause of attachment of Persians with Islam is that ,unlike ours, Islam has genuinely enriched their civilization and completely turning from Islam would mean denouncing most of their civilizational achievement. I would post on this if latter posts, if someone wants detail......Turks never had this problem as they did not had an identity.again details for later if someone wants...



You should understand why missionaries are paying people to convert. If payment for coming to Religion of Love is a life long and cross generation phenomenon, even most well funded missionaries would go bankrupt as each increasing convert would further tax their bribing resources. The game missionaries are playing is to pay pagans for long enough that they lose their institutional and collective memory of being a Hindu.


People here and elsewhere have repeated asked: How to destroy an idea? This is usually asked when pink libetards ponder upon ways to contain a terrorist organization like IS. The answer is not only very simple but something which has been applied on level of country in life of our great grandfather, and on a continental level a millenia and a millenia and a half ago.


So how do we destroy an ideology?

Simple, destroy all cultural markers of that ideology. Burn all books containing doctrine of that ideology, and prohibit practice of that ideology on pain of death.

Continental level destruction has been achieved mostly by religions.

Christian Roman Emprorers Gratian, Valentine II, and Theodosius I ,under influence of Saint Ambriose, destroyerd each and every Pagan Temple in whole of roman Empire, made practice of Paganism punishable by death, stopped Olympic games, and seized wealth of all Pagans in kingdom.

This not only destroyed Paganism in a couple of generation to such an extent that today there is practically no ancient book surviving on Pagan practice making it impossible to resurrect, even if someone wants to (this was aim of Church); It also pushed Europe into a 800 year long "dark age" due to destruction of most of knowledge in Paganic purge. Rome in early CE era knew how to make whole cities using concrete, but that knowledge was lost and concrete did not appeared on scene until mid 18th century.

The idea here on which Church worked was that if you destroy all temples, and burn every book that is there , and make practice of paganism punishable by death; Pagans would lose their institutional memory.

On should read the classical six volume series of The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire written by English historian Edward Gibbon in 1776.

This was repeated in Spain or Al-Andalusia.

Muslims too did this, but on a much smaller scale than Christians. For most part of per-modern history, Islam has been more tolerant than Christianity.

In recent times, it has been done by Soviet union. Soviet union by adopting same techniques as Theodosius I tamed CAR muslims making them docile , borderline atheist Soviet muslims; or China which did same with Hui muslims.

Also google Hugenots and their massacre done by Catholics in Paris.


I must say that Europeans are Gold medalist in this technique , with no silver medalist in sight.

@doppelganger




Lame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even better examples are their superb ethnic cleansings in the Americas - both North and South. Plus Australia, New Zealand, Africa etc etc. Nazis were babies in comparison.

Nope , you hindus despise him because he was a muslim, not just by name, but a good practical muslim......there are no other particular reasons

Obviously. A good practical Muslim will do his or her best to undo(eliminate, subjugate or convert) us. So what do we do? Love him/her?

 

[Bratva]

There are two dominant reasons why the forcefully converted did not revert.
1. Socio economic : those who had converted were given land taken away from the non Muslims who had fled. Reverting would make them lose it. Plus as Muslims they felt safe from future Jihadi invasions. They knew that even as a Muslim one is safe in a Hindu kingdom. Not so as a Hindu in Tipu's one. Plus many Hindus then were far too conservative in certain places...of course this was of little concern where whole villages were converted by sword.
2. This is more fundamental. Reverting from Islam carries the death penalty. It's a very convenient and strong deterrent. Even after Tipu's fall there were enough loyalists who made sure that anybody dreaming of leaving Islam could be put to death.

This method had been perfected by champions of the RoP for centuries. The mallus, brave though they were, stood no chance. But still they survived albeit in part.

Still, many did revert to their parent faith.


Very true. The Muslims in Karnataka are staunch fans of Tipu. They had it all. They had the power to kill, convert, rape as they pleased...which they did. After Tipu, they did not. The non Muslims learnt this lesson by heart. It stays till today.

After downfall of of Tipu sultan, which Muslim empire was strong enough and not dependent on east india company, would have invaded those so called Muslims reverted back to hinduism? Or which muslims would've killed them ? IIRC, If muslims tried to kill those hindus who reverted back to their religion, hundu states would've backed them knowing that Tipu sultan reign is no more and muslims were already weakened enough to open such a front

Nazam of Deccan was a secular man who couldn't care less if someone reverted. So both of your points are based on flawed logics and contrary to what actually happened after the demise of Tipu sultan.

 

[SecularNationalist]

After downfall of of Tipu sultan, which Muslim empire was strong enough and not dependent on east india would have invaded those so called Muslims reverted back to hinduism? Or which muslims would've killed them ? IIRC, If muslims tried to kill those hindus who reverted back to their religion, hundu states would've backed them knowing that Tipu sultan reign is no more and muslims were already weakened enough to kill apostates.

Nazam of Deccan was a secular man who couldn't care less if someone reverted. So both of your points are absed on flawed logics and contrary to what actually happened after the demise of Tipu sultan.

Dude this guy sarthak ganguly is well known for pulling posts out of his rear end .So just like me ignore his posts there is no sense in arguing with such idiots.

 

[Bratva]

Dude this guy sarthak ganguly is well known for pulling posts out of his rear end .So just like me ignore his posts there is no sense in arguing with such idiots.

I'm just setting the record straight. Multiple hindus portraying muslims as some kind of savages forgets that East india company crushed 1857 revolt and conquered india with the help of large number of Muslims inducted in East indian company army battalions.

The period b/w demise of Tipu sultan death and 1857 is 58 years. So One or two generations of same family could have hid their religion well and reverted back to their original religion as soon as British raj was declared on Indian subcontinent. I'd like to see how many hindus reverted back and how many kept Islam as religion. Would be a nice treat to see Converted by sword myth gets busted.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Or which muslims would've killed them ?

Read about the Moplahs. Even today when a Muslim converts to Hinduism in India, the purest Muslims from their own family or mosques take it upon themselves to kill the apostates. It happened this year as well. A number of cases. Plus, whether you believe it or not is upto you. I told you about the present ground reality here. Convincing you is not my headache.

Tipu sultan reign is no more and muslims were already weakened enough to open such a front

Hindus were not a proselytizing faith. We learnt this converting thing from you much later during our reform movements. Before that organized reconversions were discouraged because there were no laws or rituals of that sort. That is a 19th century creation of the Arya Samaj for example. Plus, the Hindu sense of morality also must have played a role. Even today a convert to Hinduism faces more resistance from Hindus (seculars). It was much stronger before. Plus the British wanted stability and the princely states had to tone down their religious vigor. This was true for Nizam as well. Tipu never became a princely state, so he had the chance to give full expression to his pure interpretations of his faith.

Nizam of Deccan was a secular man

So he established the Nizam ul Mulk, an Islamic state where Hindu religious organizations were banned. You can say he was more tolerant in comparison to Tipu.

I'm just setting the record straight. Multiple hindus portraying muslims as some kind of savages forgets that East india company crushed 1857 revolt and conquered india with the help of large number of Muslims inducted in East indian company army battalions.

The period b/w demise of Tipu sultan death and 1857 is 58 years. So One or two generations of same family could have hid their religion well and reverted back to their original religion as soon as British raj was declared on Indian subcontinent. I'd like to see how many hindus reverted back and how many kept Islam as religion. Would be a nice treat to see Converted by sword myth gets busted.

Look, if you already have a POV made up, there is nothing to be done. I have mentioned the details before. Believe whatever suits you. We would rather have a very uncomfortable and shameful truth to swallow.

 

[Samandri]

Obviously. A good practical Muslim will do his or her best to undo(eliminate, subjugate or convert) us. So what do we do? Love him/her?

Hindu nationalists have their own distorted history of Tipu Sultan........No one is asking you Hindus to love Tipu or any other muslim ruler.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Hindu nationalists have their own distorted history of Tipu Sultan........No one is asking you Hindus to love Tipu or any other muslim ruler.

LOL. Our history is written by the Left. Not Hindu Nationalists. The Sultanate of Mysore kept historical records. That's where it all is. We will love you love us, not those who kill us. Who you idolize is not our concern.

 

[wolfschanzze]

wow... i hope at least one of the buyers is from india.

tipu sultan... perhaps the greatest and most ambitious of the historic rulers of south asia.

NOBODY!
THE Last time Vijaya Mallya CEO of UB Industries,Force One India F1 Team, all Paints etc.
He brought Tipu's Sword in a Auction in England, since then his fortunes have dipped so badly,The souls that were cut by that sword still quench for vengeance.
Vijay Mallya will even try to bid ,considering his sorry state of affairs.

Tipu was a bigot and did untold atrocities on non-Muslims. He and his father usurped power from true rulers of the mysore kingdom for their own selfish hunger for power. He wass just another another tyrannical and despotic ruler who happened to fight against the growing power of the British for more power. He also fought against other competing local powers like Marathas and Nizams of Hyserabad.

ANYONE WHO BUYS THOSE THINGS ARE ASKING HINDUS TO MARK THIS GUY/COMPANY/ORGANIZATION !

 

[jamahir]

He brought Tipu's Sword in a Auction in England, since then his fortunes have dipped so badly,The souls that were cut by that sword still quench for vengeance.