Time to abandon Ummah / brotherhood for greater good of the nation?

[Armstrong]

They can be the CEO's but that doesn't mean they'll have the skills to the jobs, a lot of their workforce is still foreign born.

The only two countries in the Middle East that I respect and have enough talent to succeed in the future are Turkey and Iran.

As a Turk would say - We're a Muslim majority European Country !

And ma'am they might not have had the skills for some of the more technical work in the past but their business acumen, even in the past, was not to bad...! So whereas in the past they used to delegate these works to the rest of us and they'd focus on the Financial Strategy instead....they've been paying attention to the 'technical side' of late !

Saudi is progressing as they are finally getting a sense that they have to invest oil money into sustainable development or else one day they will find themselves back in Najd..however the phase of development is happening at a pace which is even irritating to the Saudis themselves....

Either way, they seem to have their sh*t together unlike us...! Which is encouraging for them but deeply embarrassing and troubling for us !

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

When israel attacks- Hire Pakistanis

When own people want to overthrow monarchies- Hire Pakistanis

When Iran attacks- Hire Pakistanis

After wards- Boast about your own non-existent capabilities.

Ya yah, without you we would be carrying Israeli flags. You are our saviors...

 

[RazPaK]

LOL, how old are you?
You probably won't be able to make Hajj until 50 years from now.
Me on the other hand, I did it 3 times already, and thinking about doing it this year.

That's good for you. But I only have to do it once. And after seeing your behavior I hope to get it over with soon.

 

[Armstrong]

My brother, without you and other Pakistani who are so descent, I would have been calling Indians by now "brothers".

Thanks mate, but you're comment about 'Pan-Arabism' shared by you and other Arabs really felt like being punched in the gut !

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Ibnwaled: Objective?

I think you need to learn the meaning of that word.
Saudia does have a problem with terrorism. OBL was Saudi. Inside Saudia there have been events. Most of those 9/11 people were Saudi, unless of course you don't think killing 5,000 people amounts to terrorism. The only reason Saudi state has done better had handling the terrorists is money. You throw money at these people and that chills out most of them. Even the Americans know that Saudi donors sponsor terrorists far and wide. The only reason it is not shouted from the rooftops is because of the influence your oil buys.

And Blackeage care to mention Yeman? Civil war, terrorism,poverty?

Jordan - Potash/Phosphate and bailouts by Saudia Arabia plus money by West to keep Jordan silen over Palestinians.
Morroco - Phosphates next door to the largest developed market in the world, the European Community.
Tunisia - Again next to Eurpean Community but with respect I give credit to the Tunisians. But then they are mostly Berbers and Carthagians.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

"Unfortunately many Pakistanis do attach too much importance on the contributions of our country resulting in them thinking they are just way too important or needed by the Muslim world. Combine that with their ailing desire for a Muslim "Ummah" & a bunch of "conspiracy" theories; that is a recipe for disaster.

This attitude has led them to neglecting their own country while either cheering for someone else or desperately trying to reaffirm their title as some sort of "fortress of Islam".
Original Post By p(-)0ENiX"

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/178091-will-arab-states-support-pakistan-militarily-future-conflict-india-34.html#post2918194

I remember the member "Desert Fox" agreed with me, here is the full conversation.

I agree with p(-)0ENiX that we Pakistanis do care too much for arabs and we should indeed stop risking ourselves for unthankful arab countries.

Original Post By Desert Fox

After that:

Actually bro, I meant that Pakistanis care way too much about all other Muslims regardless of them being Arabs or Non-Arabs. This has gone to the extent that we neglect our country while being obsessed with "Muslim Unity". Nationalism should combine elements of both race & religion, the best example of it is Arab nationalism. I have met many Pakistanis who over estimate Pakistan's abilities & think that the Muslim world would be destroyed if it wasn't for Pakistan or its nuclear bomb. Another issue is that there is no desire in many Pakistanis for change, add that to their intolerance for any view or opinion that contradicts their own.

Original Post By p(-)0ENiX

After that:

Well, if you are implying that i am among those Pakistanis who believe; "the Muslim world would be destroyed if it wasn't for Pakistan or its nuclear bomb", then you are wrong. In fact, i based my argument on recent events taking place in the ME, as well as historical events involving Pakistan in one way or another.

Of course, i am for Pakistani Nationalism, i am for encouraging our present as well as future generations to take pride in our unique culture and heritage, our own identity that has been cultivated for thousands of years. To hell with "Muslim unity" if this so called "unity" involves a subservient and dependent Pakistan that has become a laughing stock of the world, but change will only come if the people change themselves from within.

Original Post By Desert Fox

After that:

No bro, I wasn't implying that you are one of those that believe that the "Muslim world would be destroyed if it wasn't for Pakistan or its nuclear bomb". I just stated that to give you an idea about the mindset some Pakistanis have.

I agree with most of what you said, but my approach to "Muslim unity" is a bit different. My view is that all Muslims are brothers & sisters & should defend each other against injustice, however we shouldn't be obsessed with it. There needs to be a balance, as there is in the Arab world. Meaning that there should be a combination of both racial & religious nationalism. We must work hard for our own glory & success, & not care for those who don't care for us. Nations are born alone, they live alone, & they die alone. Sure all nations have friends, but there is only so much our friends can do. In my opinion relying on friends or other Muslim nations is unacceptable.

Original Post By p(-)0ENiX

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...stan-militarily-future-conflict-india-36.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...stan-militarily-future-conflict-india-37.html

I already refuted that post here:

Refuted is the wrong word bro. I would say we agreed with our views on this subject for the most part.

 

[Desert Fox]

We don't come to you for anything, just use you until you have nothing to offer.

Thank you for admitting the truth, now i can't wait till Iran starts behaving aggressive, i would love to see the expressions on your faces.

This is the 21 century, time for the Indian Arab alliance to emerge.

Lol, like we care. It wouldn't make a difference for us if you do strengthen your relations with india, in fact it will benefit Pakistan more than anything, so gee, thank you!!!

 

[Desert Fox]

Ya yah, without you we would be carrying Israeli flags. You are our saviors...

More like:

"Ya yah, without you we would have won the war and taken back all of Palestine. You are the reason why we lost...."

 

[somebozo]

We don't come to you for anything, just use you until you have nothing to offer. This is the 21 century, time for the Indian Arab alliance to emerge.

Joint team to prepare road map for Saudi-India defense cooperation - Arab News

High-profile Indian team

Growing Saudi-India ties - Arab News

Boost to defense ties with India - Arab News

Thanks and we go the Israel way...but then you all get soo bottom hurt in the name of Ummah and will atleast proceed with our boycott for a few year..same treatment Egypt suffered...

I cant wait when Pakistan will establish solid relations with the only other ideological state and get some awesome kick a55 weapons and defense tech!

When israel attacks- Hire Pakistanis

When own people want to overthrow monarchies- Hire Pakistanis

When Iran attacks- Hire Pakistanis

After wards- Boast about your own non-existent capabilities.

From their own news paper

Pakistani troops aid Bahrain's crackdown - Features - Al Jazeera English

For all its wealth, Saudi Arabia does not have the technical and scientific base to create a nuclear infrastructure. Too weak to defend itself and too rich to be left alone, the country has always been surrounded by those who eye its wealth. It has many universities staffed by highly paid expatriates and tens of thousands of Saudi students have been sent to universities overseas. But because of an ideological attitude unsuited to the acquisition of modern scientific skills, there has been little success in producing a significant number of accomplished Saudi engineers and scientists.

Another example of bottom hurt

Iran gas pipeline: Saudi offer | DAWN.COM

S. Arabia offers help to tide over energy crisis | DAWN.COM

 

[Desert Fox]

I remember the member "Desert Fox" agreed with me, here is the full conversation.



Refuted is the wrong word bro. I would say we agreed with each other for the most part.

I agreed with you, but i disagree with what BLACKEAGLE is trying to imply by quoting your post out of context.

IE:

"Unfortunately many Pakistanis do attach too much importance on the contributions of our country resulting in them thinking they are just way too important or needed by the Muslim world. Combine that with their ailing desire for a Muslim "Ummah" & a bunch of "conspiracy" theories; that is a recipe for disaster."

And i in reply stated this:

"Well, if you are implying that i am among those Pakistanis who believe; "the Muslim world would be destroyed if it wasn't for Pakistan or its nuclear bomb", then you are wrong. In fact, i based my argument on recent events taking place in the ME, as well as historical events involving Pakistan in one way or another."

in other words, i based my argument on facts, links to sources rather than some made up stories to satisfy my ego.

My posts on the thread ; "Will Arab states support Pakistan militarily in future conflict with India?" were in reply to the thread question; we helped them and continue to do so (i presented facts for this claim) and therefore they have an obligation to assist us if ever the need arises (though God Forbid considering the arrogant nature of these snobby Arabs).

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Thanks mate, but you're comment about 'Pan-Arabism' shared by you and other Arabs really felt like being punched in the gut !

Arab Nationalism is present all over the Arab world. Almost all the Arabs regardless of the issues between their governments consider each other a separate & unique nation.

The GCC countries are forming a union, the idea behind it is Arab unity. Some Pakistanis want an Islamic bloc however I don't think it's possible. An Arab bloc is more likely.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Thanks mate, but you're comment about 'Pan-Arabism' shared by you and other Arabs really felt like being punched in the gut !

Brother, do you want me to lie to you?. I really love Pakistan and hope all the best for her and her people, but I have never thought of Islam unity, we aren't able to unite as Arabs, then how could you expect me to be pro-Islam unity? this is unrealistic nor logical.Our interests should be united , we should support each other in times of need, that's it. Sombozo and others whining over Brotherhood with us, portraying us as a defendless innocent little girl who desperately crying for brotherhood. While this girl hasn't thought of Islam unity ever. She only calls for interests unity based on a common ground which is Islam.

Thats my honest answer to you brother.

 

[IbnAlwaled]

Thank you for admitting the truth, now i can't wait till Iran starts behaving aggressive, i would love to see the expressions on your faces.

I am glad we reached an agreement. You ally with starving Iranians, we ally with the world's next super power.

 

[Desert Fox]

I cant wait when Pakistan will establish solid relations with the only other ideological state and get some awesome kick a55 weapons and defense tech!




From their own news paper

Pakistani troops aid Bahrain's crackdown - Features - Al Jazeera English

For all its wealth, Saudi Arabia does not have the technical and scientific base to create a nuclear infrastructure. Too weak to defend itself and too rich to be left alone, the country has always been surrounded by those who eye its wealth. It has many universities staffed by highly paid expatriates and tens of thousands of Saudi students have been sent to universities overseas. But because of an ideological attitude unsuited to the acquisition of modern scientific skills, there has been little success in producing a significant number of accomplished Saudi engineers and scientists.

And then they say they don't need us .

They need us just like a plant needs sunlight.

 

[Armstrong]

Arab Nationalism is present all over the Arab world. Almost all the Arabs regardless of the issues between their governments consider each other a separate & unique nation.

The GCC countries are forming a union, the idea behind it is Arab unity. Some Pakistanis want an Islamic bloc however I don't think it's possible. An Arab bloc is more likely.

I've believed very strongly in Iqbal's immortal words :

'Nazarei daireena zamaanee ko dikha dei - aii Mustafavi khak mein iss buuut ko milla dei'

Eng : Show the panorama of the old world once more (time of the rightly guided caliphs) - Oh followers of Mostapha (PBUH) turn this new idol (etho-linguistic nationalism) into dust.

But apparently our man-made languages and ethnic divisions (not racial) that Islam was supposed to transcend have too much of a hold on us....!