Thread by request: Issues facing Pakistan and their potential solutions

[salarsikander]

Let me start by saying that Dr. Israr Ahmed was my teacher for two years way back in the days of the previous century.

Just so that I understand you better, do you agree (or not) with the following statements that you posted, and if so, why?

Hello,

Certainly, State has no business with the private matter of individuals unless they happen to hamper the scoial the order of society such as crime, etc.

Religion is interpreted and hen acted upon, though there is an established norm in dealings but with so manySects obviously, we can't expect one particular sect to completely take over the entire religion and then impose its interpretation as such. You're free to study, research on the religion and teach that so long you don't cause other trouble or force them with your meaning. Remember there is no compulsion in religion>

The state should be free from religious identity, though it can draw from Religion the established norms generally.

if Religion was studied properly ( as Justice Cornelius reported stated in the late 50s ) then we would have got the answer in the first place.

Secondly, we are all Muslims and not thekdera of Islam, With or without Pakistan, Islam will exist, God doesn't need a bunch og bigots for protection of his religion, If we were half of Muslims we claim to be then In general society of Pakistan we would be seeing nepotism, corruption robbery or the ills of society, so there is the irony there

 

[VCheng]

Hello,

Certainly, State has no business with the private matter of individuals unless they happen to hamper the scoial the order of society such as crime, etc.

Religion is interpreted and hen acted upon, though there is an established norm in dealings but with so manySects obviously, we can't expect one particular sect to completely take over the entire religion and then impose its interpretation as such. You're free to study, research on the religion and teach that so long you don't cause other trouble or force them with your meaning. Remember there is no compulsion in religion>

The state should be free from religious identity, though it can draw from Religion the established norms generally.

if Religion was studied properly ( as Justice Cornelius reported stated in the late 50s ) then we would have got the answer in the first place.

Secondly, we are all Muslims and not thekdera of Islam, With or without Pakistan, Islam will exist, God doesn't need a bunch og bigots for protection of his religion, If we were half of Muslims we claim to be then In general society of Pakistan we would be seeing nepotism, corruption robbery or the ills of society, so there is the irony there

It seems you are really far apart from many (most?) of your compatriots in such views as you have highlighted above.

 

[salarsikander]

It seems you are really far apart from many (most?) of your compatriots in such views as you have highlighted above.

I may or may not be, that doesn't matter. A deep study must be carried out to understand how the state works and what is the difference between Muslim and Islam. Rather than confusing the two terms and amalgamating them into one and then dividing them if the attack is carried out by a Muslim.

I cannot emphasize enough that as of today or in the past apart from Hazrat Umar R.A. there has never been a truly Islamic state in existence, We have had Muslim states that we all glorify but none of them were Islamic in its True Sense and I can certainly Pakistan is anything but Islamic, likewise goes from Arabia

I hope I am able to explain you better @VCheng

 

[VCheng]

I may or may not be, that doesn't matter. A deep study must be carried out to understand how the state works and what is the difference between Muslim and Islam. Rather than confusing the two terms and amalgamating them into one and then dividing them if the attack is carried out by a Muslim.

I cannot emphasize enough that as of today or in the past apart from Hazrat Umar R.A. there has never been a truly Islamic state in existence, We have had Muslim states that we all glorify but none of them were Islamic in its True Sense and I can certainly Pakistan is anything but Islamic, likewise goes from Arabia

I hope I am able to explain you better @VCheng

The solution to Pakistan's problems does not lie in "true" Islam or more Islam. It lies in the separation of matters of State from matters of religion to keep religion where it belongs - in the personal domain.

If by a miracle should that happen, the next step should be to keep the military where it belongs, and not everywhere, which would take an even bigger miracle.

Otherwise, Pakistan will keep heading in the direction it is heading, and it is not up.

 

[salarsikander]

The solution to Pakistan's problems does not lie in "true" Islam or more Islam. It lies in the separation of matters of State from matters of religion to keep religion where it belongs - in the personal domain.

If by a miracle should that happen, the next step should be to keep the military where it belongs, and not everywhere, which would take an even bigger miracle.

Otherwise, Pakistan will keep heading in the direction it is heading, and it is not up.

In a culture where everyone loves to poke their nose in what is going on in neighbors house, this will truly be a miracle

 

[VCheng]

In a culture where everyone loves to poke their nose in what is going on in neighbors house, this will truly be a miracle

As a nation, we are used to waiting for miracles.

 

[salarsikander]

As a nation, we are used to waiting for miracles.

Without actually working for them.

 

[VCheng]

Without actually working for them.

Why work, when the three As will provide?

 

[salarsikander]

Why work, when the three As will provide?

Oh Kiya yad diladiya the late 50s and mid 60s
Allah, Army, America.
khair the last One A is not in any mood to provide anything and

 

[VCheng]

Oh Kiya yad diladiya the late 50s and mid 60s
Allah, Army, America.
khair the last One A is not in any mood to provide anything and

I posted in some other thread that AAA has now been replaced by ABC: Allah, Boots and China.

 

[salarsikander]

I posted in some other thread that AAA has now been replaced by ABC: Allah, Boots and China.

In the long-run I seriously hope that China takes over, We are a truly incapable lot of governing ourselves, we are only best at looting ourselves and then blaming dead goras of pre-independence or US for that matter

I posted in some other thread that AAA has now been replaced by ABC: Allah, Boots and China.

But bearing in Mind Chinese very shrewd and Unlike Americans, they are not so lenient in giving relief, I hope that we able to start replaying the interest on Cpec starting from 2021 which is about 3bn Dollars

 

[VCheng]

In the long-run I seriously hope that China takes over, We are a truly incapable lot of governing ourselves, we are only best at looting ourselves and then blaming dead goras of pre-independence or US for that matter


But bearing in Mind Chinese very shrewd and Unlike Americans, they are not so lenient in giving relief, I hope that we able to start replaying the interest on Cpec starting from 2021 which is about 3bn Dollars

Another day, another john. No big difference.

 

[The Accountant]

I am creating this thread by request, but the mods are free to delete it if they so decide.

=================================

The two main specific flaws are:

1. The Objectives Resolution, which mixes matters of religion with matters of State, and is proving to be nearly fatal to the country.

2. The Army continues to overreach in many areas beyond its legal mandate, leading to severe deleterious consequences for the country.

The above two are specifically worded, but the more general issues fall into four broad areas:

1. The collapsing economy.
2. The abysmal social development.
3. The utterly failed state institutions.
4. The adrift foreign and defense policies.

All of the above are made infinitely worse by insisting on existing policies simply because the magnitude of change required is beyond the comprehension of those who formulate them, and they would rather suppress any criticism than make the required changes in order to preserve the status quo that benefits them immensely.

==================================

I look forward to your explanations @salarsikander and subsequent discussion if it survives the traditional whataboutery and personal attacks instigated by design.

I agree with the first point but not with the second.

Actually its really the opposite its the absence of religion in the matters of state that is holding us back. Pakistan is an dieological country and was formed on the idea of practicing religion of islam freely but when government dont follow the same it creates frustration among masses and hence a chaos.

However on the other side we need to work on onter sect harmony in different sects of islam ...

I would say that rather than condemning religion its the low literacy rate that is holding us back. We are illetrate people. Teligion do not stop us from development infact Islam preeches to study and hard work. Our religion preeches equality and justice whoch is rarely found in our society. Implement those principles of islam and you will see wonders happening

 

[VCheng]

Actually its really the opposite its the absence of religion in the matters of state that is holding us back. Pakistan is an dieological country and was formed on the idea of practicing religion of islam freely but when government dont follow the same it creates frustration among masses and hence a chaos.

How can a government follow a religion? People can certainly follow a religion but institutions cannot, by definition.

 

[The Accountant]

How can a government follow a religion? People can certainly follow a religion but institutions cannot, by definition.

Whose definition ? The religion i follow defines the peinciples of government and governance.

It defines the roles and responsibilities of rulers and its subject.

It even defines the financial and economic system.

It was islam who gave the concept of welfare nation and segregation between the law (quran and hadith) and the ruler.

You should study quran and hadith to understand the Islam and principles define for government. I personally feel that those who are influenced with western ideology and literature thinks that religion cannot guide how to govern as christianty never defined or guide on the subject but on the contrary islam being the complete guidance from the Almighty guides you on all spheres of life including governance and rulership.