Thread by request: Issues facing Pakistan and their potential solutions

[Chakar The Great]

I am creating this thread by request, but the mods are free to delete it if they so decide.

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The two main specific flaws are:

1. The Objectives Resolution, which mixes matters of religion with matters of State, and is proving to be nearly fatal to the country.

2. The Army continues to overreach in many areas beyond its legal mandate, leading to severe deleterious consequences for the country.



All of the above are made infinitely worse by insisting on existing policies simply because the magnitude of change required is beyond the comprehension of those who formulate them, and they would rather suppress any criticism than make the required changes in order to preserve the status quo that benefits them immensely.

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Completely agree with those two points. Thank you for broadening my vision and thought process.

 

[VCheng]

By that, you mean moral development or infrastructure development?

All your points are spot on.

Both.

(and being spot on does not mean much on PDF. )

 

[Hellfire]

How do you define indian nationalism?

Vague at best and undefined as being the realistic answer.

 

[El Sidd]

Vague at best and undefined as being the realistic answer.

just the Urge to suffer in a group?

 

[VCheng]

Vague at best and undefined as being the realistic answer.

That is a far better strategy than granting one particular institution carte blanche to define nationalism for the entire country as it suits that one institution.

 

[SQ8]

Qatl o gharat? It’s the one Pakistanis in general reach out to since ghairat isnt a solution available.

Oh wait! This is a “military and religion are the ills of Pakistan” one.. nevermind

 

[salarsikander]

Extremely sorry guys. I am unable to take active part is the discussion due to Scared month of Ramdhan

IN SHA ALLAH once we are done with Ramadhan, I will be taking active part here.

Have a blessed Ramadhan everyone

 

[VCheng]

Scared month of Ramdhan

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Oh wait, Mullah Nashayb has given a fatwah to end all debate on the matter, despite reality.

 

[Hellfire]

just the Urge to suffer in a group?

Perhaps, the 'socialist' ideals at play here? We did, after all, insert 'socialist' in our preamble to the constitution in 1976 vide 42nd Amendment.

Or, for that matter, isn't it also the consequence of democracy, wherein, the collective stupidity may, at times, assert itself?

 

[VCheng]

Perhaps, the 'socialist' ideals at play here? We did, after all, insert 'socialist' in our preamble to the constitution in 1976 vide 42nd Amendment.

Or, for that matter, isn't it also the consequence of democracy, wherein, the collective stupidity may, at times, assert itself?

If anyone needs an example of collective stupidity, USA is a prime example. Seriously. But it still works rather well.

 

[El Sidd]

Perhaps, the 'socialist' ideals at play here? We did, after all, insert 'socialist' in our preamble to the constitution in 1976 vide 42nd Amendment.

Or, for that matter, isn't it also the consequence of democracy, wherein, the collective stupidity may, at times, assert itself?

you cannot possibly fantasize about socialist government for a country of 1.4 billion people? that is a recipe for chaos and anarchy

 

[nahtanbob]

Pakistan is not the past, its not its initial requirements. The scope has changed, the end users have changed, the people responsible for the implementation of governance have changed and ultimately what is expected of government has also changed.

Stop asking what Jinnah wanted and ask what the awam wants. What does it need?

The Pakistani state makes a mockery of Islam in the way it implements it with mere lip service. It is time for Pakistan to choose a side, Islam or secularism. We cannot have 1 foot in each boat running parallel societies.

Either adopt secularism, its ideals and its political ideologies and processes, or adapt Islam and create a bespoke, fit for purpose system of governance enshrined in Islamic values.

Every country that has gone on to adopt Islamic system is in shambles. Be careful what you wish for

 

[Hellfire]

you cannot possibly fantasize about socialist government for a country of 1.4 billion people? that is a recipe for chaos and anarchy

That is and always what the problem in India is, right?

I remain a firm supporter of Issac Asimov when he says: "The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."

 

[salarsikander]

Hello,

@VCheng the truth is in what you mentioned earlier that separating religion from state is the process to move forward.

In first there is no such thing as an Islamic state, one can put it up as a benchmark or as a utopian society but practically achieving it is not possible. The state does not have the right to impose a religion on its citizen, though using its power it can check for what is right and wrong but then again that leaves us to the paradoxical question of what is right and wrong if I move away from Contemporary established the meaning of that concept.

An interesting question arose during Ramadan where someone said here stated that because of mixing religion with the state we now see the policy of banning food for everyone in Ramadan. And a counter-argument was made that because of the fact most people are fasting business does not then open their premises as their sales would be low. That is one way to put it.

But having said that state cannot impose its will regarding the religious matter.

I would like to bring your attention to a very informative Lecture by Dr Israr Ahmed on mixing religion with state and what was the real vision of Iqbal that we should have Muslim state rather than an Islamic one, Islam and Muslim are two different thing :

Laws enacted/imposed by illegitimate dictators are essentially 'undemocratic'.

Same goes for Civilian dictators with socialist tendencies, Your Dp Very well explains that

 

[VCheng]

Hello,

@VCheng the truth is in what you mentioned earlier that separating religion from state is the process to move forward.

Let me start by saying that Dr. Israr Ahmed was my teacher for two years way back in the days of the previous century.

Just so that I understand you better, do you agree (or not) with the following statements that you posted, and if so, why?

there is no such thing as an Islamic state, one can put it up as a benchmark or as a utopian society but practically achieving it is not possible.

The state does not have the right to impose a religion on its citizen

because of mixing religion with the state we now see the policy of banning food for everyone in Ramadan.

what was the real vision of Iqbal that we should have Muslim state rather than an Islamic one

Islam and Muslim are two different thing