Things Anyone Who’s A Liberal In Pakistan Can Completely Understand

[Zibago]

Yes masair .......... but your ideas would get us beaten someday.

Ghar ki khatir so dukh jhelein ghar to akhir apna hy

Egjacktly. Nothing is going to change unless it is an in house movement.

Awaam ko ba shaor banana hy

A total misunderstanding.

Secularism means treating everyone equally why dont they understand it?

 

[I.R.A]

Baba jey it would be fine if people were issuing fatwas, take this post for example:

Fatwas these days are cheap .......... you can buy an anti fatwa to a fatwa.

A total misunderstanding.

In context of an Islamic state (Which Pakistan is not), he has a point there by the way. Ideology of secularism and real Islam are poles apart. Now one can have his own understanding of secularism but that doesn't count, what is generally accepted would be considered.

Juda ho deen siayast se to reh jati hay changaizi.

Secularism means treating everyone equally why dont they understand it?

The problem is not with how secularism treats people ........... the foundation of that system (If I am correct to understand that State has nothing to do with Deen) is very much against foundation of an Islamic state.

Islamic state is bigger and better than secular state and theocracy ...... why don't liberals and traditionalist Pakistanis understand this?

 

[WAJsal]

In context of an Islamic state (Which Pakistan is not), he has a point there by the way. Ideology of secularism and real Islam are poles apart. Now one can have his own understanding of secularism but that doesn't count, what is generally accepted would be considered.

Hate to repeat myself, point being: these posts are the reason we don't allow religious discussions. Ones understanding of anything might be different from you or me, point taken.

 

[I.R.A]

Hate to repeat myself, point being: these posts are the reason we don't allow religious discussions. Ones understanding of anything might be different from you or me, point taken.

I agree with you as far as dishing labels / fatwas out goes ............ that is not the purpose and doesn't achieve anything positive. We should make our point and try to understand where other is coming from and then politely agree or disagree with him. Ideally that is what should happen par bai insan hain ho jati hy bhool chook.

 

[El Sidd]

@Hell hound hunn araam hai? fasaadi acha khasa khush chal rahe the log 3 4 dinon se...

 

[Arsalan]

Be Liberal is GREAT as long as they too do not forget the lesson of "moderation" taught by the ideology. What i fear for is this ideology too being hijacked by extremists, just like the religion which teaches us ALL a lesson of peace and moderation and makes it mandatory but is being hijacked bby extremists.

 

[Rusty]

at the end of the day you can't have a state based on religion because everyone practices the religion differently. Even people who are part of the same sect or even the same family practice their religion a little different. It is impossible to police this.

The best idea is to go secular, tell people to worship however they want and let the state do more important things like fund science and education.

 

[Jungibaaz]

@Jungibaaz

Sir ji, you are wrong and @Zarvan is correct.

Secularism replaces Allah's sovereignty over all matters with a man or group of men and that is outright Shirk. Masterstroke by Satan but some utterly fail to see that.

Secularism is anti-Deen
Liberalism is anti-religion

If you can't understand that then what more can one say really.

Btw, is Satan a friend or foe according to you?

Religion is a personal matter, and secularism has nothing to do with the religion of individuals, it only seeks to limit the use of religion, specifically along with state power and societal outlook. You are currently living in a fairly secular state, technically the powers granted to the C of E mean it isn't secular, but it seems to me it is secular in all but name, particularly the society. This is usually the part where someone will accuse you of being a hypocrite, but I'll leave that for now, just answer me this, are your personal beliefs or the ability to practise your faith marginalised in this country?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Yes they have but don't have guts to admit it openly in Pakistan.

Only Allah knows the secrets of the hearts. This knowledge has not been granted to anyone, not even the Messengers......

Khudai ka dawa mat kero bhai ... Apparently your arrogance and hatred has blinded you

 

[VCheng]

Religion is a personal matter, and secularism has nothing to do with the religion of individuals, it only seeks to limit the use of religion, specifically along with state power and societal outlook. You are currently living in a fairly secular state, technically the powers granted to the C of E mean it isn't secular, but it seems to me it is secular in all but name, particularly the society. This is usually the part where someone will accuse you of being a hypocrite, but I'll leave that for now, just answer me this, are your personal beliefs or the ability to practise your faith marginalised in this country?

The thread I posted in the Seniors Cafe about this article was deleted, but it is informative to read nonetheless:

http://www.economist.com/news/speci...nt-forms-islam-are-fighting-their-own-version

"Islam is more than ever the cause for which everyone claims to be fighting. But which Islam? Eugene Rogan of Oxford University argues that the fate of the Arab world will be determined by the contest between three versions of Islam: the Muslim Brotherhood and salafi-jihadism (both Sunni) and the Shia doctrine of the “rule of the jurisprudent”. At least two other trends are important, too.

Islam holds great political power. Muhammad was not only a religious prophet but also a temporal ruler and warrior. Islam was spread by both the word and the sword. For many Muslims Islam is not just a personal faith but also a blueprint for organising a perfect society. The Western notion of separating religion from politics is regarded as nonsensical. Muslims regard their religion as God’s final revelation and the Koran as his actual word. Some groups thus tend towards literalism. Muslim reformers seek to play down the “sword verses”—eg, “slay the idolaters wherever you find them”—but jihadist ideologues dismiss this as fake Islam."

 

[Arsalan]

Be Liberal is GREAT as long as they too do not forget the lesson of "moderation" taught by the ideology. What i fear for is this ideology too being hijacked by extremists, just like the religion which teaches us ALL a lesson of peace and moderation and makes it mandatory but is being hijacked by extremists.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Jesus (Peace be upon him) is not coming back. He had a strong army in his times (as against to what we are normally made to believe), and has already dominated his opponents 61:14. This whole chapter 61 needs to be read to understand the importance of mentioning of Jesus and his army.

Mahdi is a fictional character created to raise insurgencies and further agenda of intrigues, many Mahdi have already come

Agreed, the concept of second coming of Jesus predates Islam, the Holy Qur'an makes no clear mention of it, and this concept, like many other judeo-christian concepts, crept into Islam much later, through secondary sources. Even Imam Malik in his Muwatta (the first supposedly authentic Hadith collection) makes no mention of the second coming of Jesus.

As for Imam Mahdi, the Holy Qur'an doesn't mention him either. He (by name) hasn't been mentioned even in the Sahihain. Contrary to the popular belief, The Holy Qur'an doesn't promise/mention the mythical global Islamic Utopian Kingdom (before end times) which the Muslims talk about so much.

 

[Vazir]

Be Liberal is GREAT as long as they too do not forget the lesson of "moderation" taught by the ideology. What i fear for is this ideology too being hijacked by extremists, just like the religion which teaches us ALL a lesson of peace and moderation and makes it mandatory but is being hijacked by extremists.

To seedha seedha bolo na k you don't like alt left. Kyun ghuma rhay ho bhai!!!! [emoji23]

 

[Arsalan]

To seedha seedha bolo na k you don't like alt left. Kyun ghuma rhay ho bhai!!!! [emoji23]

EXACTLY!!
I wont like or support extremism of ANY KIND. Not religious, not secular or liberal. To me, if you study the philosophy of liberalism, it too asks for moderation. My point is just that we should try to be moderate, any extremism in name of being liberal is not going to help ANYONE either and have the potential to turn out same as religious extremism.

 

[The Sandman]

Sab sey ziyada daish mein osp,s hi gayein hein Pakistanio sey bhi ziyada
OSP,s ki khayali duniya ka haqiqat sey taluk nahi sarey osp baboons kehtey hain Pakistani tax nahi detey jo yahan rehta hy usko yahan ka nizam samajh ata hy

@Moonlight @The Sandman @Hell hound

Ye osp's kia hai?