Things Anyone Who’s A Liberal In Pakistan Can Completely Understand

[Zarvan]

Thanks for your very adequate and timely demonstration of the point I was making about some Pakistanis being unable to make any distinction between secularism and atheism.

They can't because there is no difference. The moment you call for secularism you basically challenge GOD ability and wisdom and that is first step towards atheism

 

[Jungibaaz]

They can't because there is no difference. The moment you call for secularism you basically challenge GOD ability and wisdom and that is first step towards atheism

You don't understand secularism. It has nothing to do with individuals, whereas atheism is wholly individual, as religion can be too. There are plenty of areas of life where a man's interpretation of God has little to no bearing on their thoughts and actions, that's true irrespective of how pious they perceive themselves to be.

 

[Zarvan]

You don't understand secularism. It has nothing to do with individuals, whereas atheism is wholly individual, as religion can be too. There are plenty of areas of life where a man's interpretation of God has little to no bearing on their thoughts and actions, that's true irrespective of how pious they perceive themselves to be.

I understand secularism. Problem is our liberals have habbit of trying to come up with pathetically amusing meaning of secularism to justify it and fail every time. Sorry but in Islam ALLAH has orders for every aspect of life in anything you say that men will decide on there own you basically challenged ALLAH and that is kufr. Problem with promoters of secularism is many of them are atheist but won't admit.

 

[Jungibaaz]

I understand secularism. Problem is our liberals have habbit of trying to come up with pathetically amusing meaning of secularism to justify it and fail every time. Sorry but in Islam ALLAH has orders for every aspect of life in anything you say that men will decide on there own you basically challenged ALLAH and that is kufr. Problem with promoters of secularism is many of them are atheist but won't admit.

You're just posting one silly assertion after the other now. How about you do this, without using google or any dictionary, define the word "seculaism" for me. We'll see if it's even worth taking the discussion any further if we can't even agree on a definition.

 

[Divergent]

You're just posting one silly assertion after the other now. How about you do this, without using google or any dictionary, define the word "seculaism" for me. We'll see if it's even worth taking the discussion any further if we can't even agree on a definition.

Good luck with Zarwan lmao

 

[Zarvan]

You're just posting one silly assertion after the other now. How about you do this, without using google or any dictionary, define the word "seculaism" for me. We'll see if it's even worth taking the discussion any further if we can't even agree on a definition.

You first Sir !!! I am not talking about any assumption I am talking about basic point which secularism is based on. That is religion will have nothing to do with matters of state. According to secularism religion is private matter, which is totally opposite to what ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW says. Liberals problem is they have issue with Quran and they have issue with RASOOL SAW but can't openly admit to this in Pakistan so they have come up with excuses and hilarious interpretation of secularism. In Islam state has to follow and implement orders of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW. There fore it can't be secular.

 

[Divergent]

You first Sir !!! I am not talking about any assumption I am talking about basic point which secularism is based on. That is religion will have nothing to do with matters of state. According to secularism religion is private matter, which is totally opposite to what ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW says. Liberals problem is they have issue with Quran and they have issue with RASOOL SAW but can't openly admit to this in Pakistan so they have come up with excuses and hilarious interpretation of secularism. In Islam state has to follow and implement orders of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW. There fore it can't be secular.

That's not true Liberals do not have a problem with Faith. Stop.

 

[Zarvan]

That's not true Liberals do not have a problem with Faith. Stop.

Yes they have but don't have guts to admit it openly in Pakistan.

 

[Divergent]

Yes they have but don't have guts to admit it openly in Pakistan.

They may have a problem with extremism and some Mullahs but not the Faith.

 

[Hell hound]

 

[Zarvan]

They may have a problem with extremism and some Mullahs but not the Faith.

Lady liberals issue is with faith. The words Mullah and so called extremism is a cover which they use to attack Islam.

 

[Jungibaaz]

You first Sir !!! I am not talking about any assumption I am talking about basic point which secularism is based on. That is religion will have nothing to do with matters of state. According to secularism religion is private matter, which is totally opposite to what ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW says. Liberals problem is they have issue with Quran and they have issue with RASOOL SAW but can't openly admit to this in Pakistan so they have come up with excuses and hilarious interpretation of secularism. In Islam state has to follow and implement orders of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW. There fore it can't be secular.

Okay. A simple definition. Since you are either incapable or unwilling to come up with one yourself.

Secularism as I understand it, on a state level is separation between state power and any bias or preference of any religion. That does NOT mean that it does not allow religion to be practised and preached freely. On an individual level, secularism is an openness and tolerance of all thoughts on matter of religion, without the need to internalise the opinions and beliefs or others. Secularism is NOT a substitute for religion, nor does it exhibit religious 'beliefs' of any sort, it is instead a set of loosely defined ideals.

Please give me a critique of this definition, and spare me any rant about your preconceived notions about religion and society.

 

[Zarvan]

Okay. A simple definition. Since you are either incapable or unwilling to come up with one yourself.

Secularism as I understand it, on a state level is separation between state power and any bias or preference of any religion. That does NOT mean that it does not allow religion to be practised and preached freely. On an individual level, secularism is an openness and tolerance of all thoughts on matter of religion, without the need to internalise the opinions and beliefs or others. Secularism is NOT a substitute for religion, nor does it exhibit religious 'beliefs' of any sort, it is instead a set of loosely defined ideals.

Please give me a critique of this definition, and spare me any rant about your preconceived notions about religion and society.

Sorry but what you defined is kufr in Islam. In Islam minorities have rights but Islam is the main thing in state matters. It's main source of law and guidelines for How to run Government and it's the system which also decides what rights minorities will have. By the way this is your definition of secularism in entire world this is not what secularism is. In entire world secularism is defined as total separation of religion and state matters. And this is exactly my definition also I don't try to come up with my own because this is what 99 % supporters of secularism come up with. And Islamically this is clear cut KUFR.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Sorry but what you defined is kufr in Islam. In Islam minorities have rights but Islam is the main thing in state matters. It's main source of law and guidelines for How to run Government and it's the system which also decides what rights minorities will have. By the way this is your definition of secularism in entire world this is not what secularism is. In entire world secularism is defined as total separation of religion and state matters.

Okay, look I don't have the mental perseverance necessary to see this conversation through to its end, which is doubtless as fruitless as the conversation has proved thus far. And by the way, separation of religion and state is exactly what I defined in my post to which you replied, you can read it again if you missed it.

 

[Hell hound]

Okay, look I don't have the mental perseverance necessary to see this conversation through to its end, which is doubtless as fruitless as the conversation has proved thus far. And by the way, separation of religion and state is exactly what I defined in my post to which you replied, you can read it again if you missed it.

KFUR ka fatwa mubarik ho janab