The Kargil Conflict Revisited

[Mav3rick]

I will do you one better.. believe your prime minister that the total deaths of Pak side were over 4000 ... See I do believe Pakistanis too some times

You can choose your ownself in the mirror stating 10,000 Pakistani soldiers lost their lives but it wouldn't really matter to anyone, other then you ofcourse!

Don't see him defending himself either.. You are just glorifying a criminal as a hero.. Nothing else..

He has to be a criminal to you for what he did to your military and your Government. Ofcourse, to this country he is a hero.

Considering a lot of what Pak Mil said about Kargil turned out to be false, including the claims of Mujahiddins leading the attack, its a little to take their word at face value...

I wonder what your parents were telling you about making babies and fairies and all, you probably do not take their words at face value either as the concept of need to know basis is lost on you.

now you start to say about 450 of your soldiers died that time ... but what about liar musharraf who still saying that around 200 were died that time ????

I am not saying that, I am just quoting Pak Mil's figures (roughly) and Musharraf is a man, a soldier, a commando and a commander. He does not lie!

 

[Mav3rick]

If you mean that while in uniform they hold their tongues only to open them once they know they cant leech anything else out of their service.. then yes.

Not just that, they seem to change their loyalties as soon as they take off their uniforms......then they become politicians, either with Nawaz, Zardari or others. And it's not valid for everyone, just a handful who sell themselves for their own personal vested interests as soon as they retire from service (and sometimes even while serving). I can agree that Musharraf was made a fool on occasions by politicians especially during his later years in power, but I can never consider that he held anything but the best interests of the country in his regard.

This was biggest blunder and poorly planned operation. Musharraf is hiding many real facts which may show his incompetency. 1000 bodies of soldiers only to prove personal ego.

Care to explain how it was the biggest blunder and poorly planned?

 

[punit]

It was hindus who needed face saver, it was your PM who went to US first, our jawans were sitting tight till that moment.

You were so afraid that you failed to step any where else.

It was your army which was trapped in Kashmir not ours.

.

really!! in which world of which universe and in which dimension or its seer stupidity

 

[BATMAN]

Still we control Kashmir .........

you are way out of context.

 

[BATMAN]

It all Happen infront of our eyes, Still you live in denial?? And since when Pakistani Army started following Civilian govt order?? Pakistan must be thankful to NS, who save Pakistani Izzat in 99. Else you pakistani would have faced more shameless defeat than 71.

So do you always wait for American intervention, once Pakistan occupy many hundred square miles of your land?

What interest Americans had in returning Kashmiri land to hindus?

 

[DV RULES]

Care to explain how it was the biggest blunder and poorly planned?

Musharraf's plan was courtesy of punishment to Nawas Sharif over his 28th May 1998's decision. There were not any aim to get back Siachen. Everybody knows who ever put its legs against Pakistan's atomic program and even AQ Khan told everything about it. Now the person who is declaring that "Kargil war was successful" sitting safe and sound out side Pakistan because of his decision on phone call "Bomb Pakistan back to “the Stone Age”.

Enough food for thinking!!!!

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The Passive Voices: Make no mistake; the Kargil was Meghdoot of 1999….

Well another blooger adds his voice to the "Kargil Symphony"!

Again this voice has equated criticism of a "Stupid Plan(?) by a small cabal of unthinking Generals" to "Pakistan Army bashing"
So in other words, a Professional Army = a Cabal of 4 stupid Generals? Because Kargil was not the Pakistani Army's blunder, it was a blunder by 4 Generals who rode rough-shod over the rest of the Army; by either keeping them in the dark or by steam-rollering all sensible opinions- including those emanating from the PAF and PN.

Finally if "Kargil was the Meghdoot of the Gang of 4 (in 1999), why is it that the IA is sitting in Siachen still; while the Gang of 4 is being subjected to such uncomfortable questioning now"??

 

[OrionHunter]

So why did NS rush to the US of A for help? To stop the Indians from wreaking more havoc on the NLI! In his own words, "Yeh Pakistani fauj ki izzat ka swal tha."

So all this crap from Mush who leaves no stone unturned to spew poppyco@k is just that - crap. He insisted that his troops would have captured Siachen if the battle had continued!! Really? Without ammo, without food, without water, without morale?

 

[IND151]

It was hindus who needed face saver, it was your PM who went to US first, our jawans were sitting tight till that moment.

You were so afraid that you failed to step any where else.

It was your army which was trapped in Kashmir not ours.



leading columnist are not military generals.

He is anyway PPP jiyala.

a trapped army which bombed enemy positions with artillery along with help from AF and retook nearly all peaks(barring 3)?

Pakistan's objective was to cut Indian supplies to IA in Siachin and have a position of strength at negotiations.

We still control Siachin and Kargil.

Point 5353 is important one but if we decide to neutralize it in war, it wont take long.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

at least should be taken in trust over plan and advise how to tackle political and international pressure.

That is precisely what happened.

As I said in another post:

"What compounded the flaws in Op.Badr was that it seems not even to have been explained in any detail to the Political Leadership in Pakistan. Because the consequences of any Military action directed towards a neighbouring country must have a diplomatic ‘fall-out’ which of necessity would have to be dealt with by the Political Leadership. In this instance, the Political Leadership (and consequently the Pakistani Diplomatic Establishment) were grossly unprepared."

"The fact is that once the plan was set rolling and the dismal results came in eventually (and somewhat inevitably) there was a huge disconnect between the Political leadership and the Military leadership about the campaign and its conclusion, and in the end; both Political and Military leadership in Pakistan were simply reduced to a state of dysfunction- something that just added to the chances of a disastrous conclusion of the plan!"

A Military Mess then turned into a Diplomatic Disaster for Pakistan. Pakistan began to be perceived as a "gung-ho and irresponsible country armed with nukes". All because of 4 irresponsible Generals.
Kargil was not Pakistan's blunder; it was the blunder of that Gang of 4. But Pakistan and its people paid the price for it.

 

[jaibi]

Musharaf's credibility is compromised as he has political interests vested now. I recall reading Shuja Nawaz's Crossed Swords in whcih he says that there are three sides to the Kargil story: the Nawaz Sharif side, the Indian side and the Musharaf side. There are disparities in the Nawaz and Musharaf side and I believe we should trust the historians to sort it out!

However, I would like to point out that many people say that Kargil was a military victory or was going to be had it not been for Sharif. I would like to point out that a) during the 1999 era we were sactioned and labelled as a rouge state then what advantage as a STATE would we have gained had this been a military victory but a political loss? b) there was a clear lack of 'unity of command', a term Musharaf used again and again to justify his coup and dual office, in planning Kargil; clearly the PAF and the PN were not properly involved and a good military plan should have factored in a greater response from the Indians. c) during the whole Kargil episode there was a lack of proper communication between Musharaf and Sharif: who was the real boss, who had the power to pull the plug? d) Kargil had more political ramifications within Pakistan than outside Pakistan. Our analysis of Kargil should not be limited to a battle scenario but to a more intra-national analysis to improve the civil-military communication and clearly demaracate the hierarchy of control from the civilians on the military and within the military.

Lastly, Kargil is history and its reinterpretations and the blame game that comes with it would do us Pakistanis little good. Instead we should focus on what to learn from it like India did from the Indo-China war of 1962.

 

[kurup]

you are way out of context.

Seriously , read what you wrote and decide who was out of context.

It was hindus who needed face saver, it was your PM who went to US first, our jawans were sitting tight till that moment.

You were so afraid that you failed to step any where else.

It was your army which was trapped in Kashmir not ours.

 

[karan.1970]

You can choose your ownself in the mirror stating 10,000 Pakistani soldiers lost their lives but it wouldn't really matter to anyone, other then you ofcourse!

Well, you can chose to believe the words of a alleged murderer and a criminal over the words of your prime minister, but I am sure everyone in Pakistan is not as naive..

Kargil probe body had sought Musharraf

While the Pakistan Army conceded that 453 soldiers were killed, the US Department of State estimated close to 700 fatalities. According to Nawaz Sharif, there were over 4,000 fatalities, while the PML-N White Paper claimed that over 3,000 Mujahideens, officers and soldiers were killed.

According to the Indian estimates, Pakistan lost 1,042 soldiers in the Kargil war.

He has to be a criminal to you for what he did to your military and your Government. Ofcourse, to this country he is a hero.

Sure he is


Pakistan Issues Arrest Warrant for Musharraf in Bhutto’s Killing


Pakistan calls in Interpol to arrest Pervez Musharraf over Benazir Bhutto's assassination - Telegraph

Pakistan vows to arrest Musharraf for Bhutto assassination - CNN

Benazir assassination: Malik vows to bring Musharraf to Pakistan – The Express Tribune

I wonder what your parents were telling you about making babies and fairies and all, you probably do not take their words at face value either as the concept of need to know basis is lost on you.

Well, unlike you, most sane Pakistanis do not consider Pakistani military as their mom and General Parvez Musharraf as their dad..

Its you who needs to understand the concept of need to know. Lying is not justified by need to know. Need to know is based on omission of facts and not commission of lies.. Reading Robert Ludlum and watching a couple of Hollywood movies and then parroting profound phrases does not make a good argument... .. By your logic, all perjury by state officials can be hidden behind the facade of Need to Know (and probably is in Pakistan )..

 

[kurup]

So do you always wait for American intervention, once Pakistan occupy many hundred square miles of your land?

What interest Americans had in returning Kashmiri land to hindus?

It looks like the defeat in kargil and now the generals under musharaf bad mouthing him one by one day by day , claiming more than thousand men of PA were dead in the heights had surely affected your superiority complex.Hence these wild remarks.

 

[karan.1970]

It looks like the defeat in kargil and now the generals under musharaf bad mouthing him one by one day by day , claiming more than thousand men of PA were dead in the heights had surely affected your superiority complex.Hence these wild remarks.

No.. he is like this from start