The Kargil Conflict Revisited

[third eye]

Go and learn about the Kargil operation. At that time Pakistan couldn't accept the dead bodies because they didn't belong to it. Accepting the dead bodies would mean official act of war and escalation. At times i believe however Pakistan did accept the bodies. If you already knew this than keep your gibberish and trolling attempt to yourself.

Unclear.

Can you pls elaborate the parts in red.

 

[Indrajith]

As usuall - 4 people who masterminded the attack didnt inform Nawaz sharif about the operation, but when Nawaz sharif & US asked them to pull back they did like a kid even when they were winning the war and could have conqured India...

Good sorties of stories.. still stay in deniel until you understand it will be too late

All your ex army majors are saying Kargil was a misadventure - still stay in deniel

 

[EagleEyes]

Unclear.

Can you pls elaborate the parts in red.

I have seen videos which showed PA accepting the bodies. I do not know if they were real or made up by Indian you tubers.

 

[Paan Singh]

As usuall - 4 people who masterminded the attack didnt inform Nawaz sharif about the operation, but when Nawaz sharif & US asked them to pull back they did like a kid even when they were winning the war and could have conqured India...

Good sorties of stories.. still stay in deniel until you understand it will be too late

All your ex army majors are saying Kargil was a misadventure - still stay in deniel

You are wrong here.

Pakistanis sat on peaks till january 1999 and vajpayee visited pakistan in May i think.
Then after that,sharif was informed about the scenario.

One of the major reason for coup by mushy was that nawaj was going to remove mushy and nawaj was not interested in hiding that blunder but mushy was.

and mushy asked sharif to go U.S and intervene here.

Their supply lines from sea got choked and they had 2-3 days of more fuel.and their supply lines for ammunition across peaks got bombed by mirages and soldiers were alone there.

Mushy claims that they were in position to get siachin but in actual they were not.

 

[Chak Bamu]

I am not saying he was civilian face of army. I am saying he had to go to put pressure for a truce, and clinton seems to have asked him to pull out first.
So basically he had to pick the pieces, whether he knew everything or not is different matter, but why would he fly to US to ask clinton to mediate. Who does not like a victory in war? Why did not vajpayee go to US or russia for support?

Buddy most Indians are interested in tit-for-tat exchanges here, just so they feel better. But some posters actually come here for purposeful discussion with knowledgeable people. I do not quite see why you have to say what you wrote. Its not a matter that needs to be discussed. There is no point in it. This **** has been dead for years.

 

[third eye]

I have seen videos which showed PA accepting the bodies. I do not know if they were real or made up by Indian you tubers.

For more reasons than one, I assure you they are real.

 

[DV RULES]

This was biggest blunder and poorly planned operation. Musharraf is hiding many real facts which may show his incompetency. 1000 bodies of soldiers only to prove personal ego.

 

[BATMAN]

I cant believe NS will do a deal in USA without PA's consent, what stopped them from carrying on. They desperately needed face saver and NS had to do it.

It was hindus who needed face saver, it was your PM who went to US first, our jawans were sitting tight till that moment.

You were so afraid that you failed to step any where else.

It was your army which was trapped in Kashmir not ours.

This is what your eminent journalists, Air Chief marshal, media elite and leading columnist think :

There goes the tactical victory.

leading columnist are not military generals.

He is anyway PPP jiyala.

 

[kurup]

It was hindus who needed face saver, it was your PM who went to US first, our jawans were sitting tight till that moment.

You were so afraid that you failed to step any where else.

It was your army which was trapped in Kashmir not ours.

Still we control Kashmir .........

Buddy most Indians are interested in tit-for-tat exchanges here, just so they feel better. But some posters actually come here for purposeful discussion with knowledgeable people. I do not quite see why you have to say what you wrote. Its not a matter that needs to be discussed. There is no point in it. This **** has been dead for years.

Well buddy we are not the one beating the dead horse. You own generals are .

 

[Indrajith]

-------You are right Vajpayee went to clinton ------ read below

WASHINGTON: Giving a deep insight to the intense backroom diplomacy by the US during the 1999 Kargil conflict, a top Clinton aide has revealed how Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee stood firm on India's demand for unconditional withdrawal of Pakistani troops and his then counterpart Nawaz Sharif buckled to Washington's dictat.
"There was no give in," Bruce Riedel, Special Assistant to former US President Bill Clinton said in an article. Riedel was part of the entire parleys the US had with Pakistan to force it to withdraw from Kargil unconditionally.
Clinton had invited Vajpayee to Washington for a face-to-face meeting with Sharif but the Indian Prime Minister had declined to undertake the visit in view of the then security situation.
Clinton had informed Vajpayee after intensive parleys with Sharif in Washington in early July 1999 that he was "holding firm on demanding the withdrawal of Pakistani troops to the Line of Control."
Interestingly, according to Riedel's account, Sharif briefed an angry Clinton on his frantic efforts during that period to engage Vajpayee and get a deal that would allow Pakistan to withdraw with some face saving.
"Sharif's brief was confused and vague on many details but he seemed a man possessed with fear of war," Riedel said. Riedel said the US was quick to make known its view that Pakistan should withdraw its forces back behind the Line of Control (LoC) immediately.
At first, Clinton aides Rick Inderfurth and Thomas Pickering conveyed this view privately to the Pakistani and Indian Ambassador in Washington late May that year after the outbreak of the conflict.
US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright called Sharif two days later followed by similar tough talk by General Tony Zinni who also spoke to then Army Chief Pervez Musharraf.
"These message did not not work. So we went public and called upon Pakistan to respect the LoC," Riedel said adding that Clinton called both Vajpayee and Sharif in mid June and sent letters to each pressing for Pakistani withdrawal and restraint from Indian side.
Sharif became increasingly desperate as he saw how isolated Pakistan's position had become and sought urgent American intervention. In the last days of June, Sharif began to ask to see Clinton directly to plead his case.
On July 2, Sharif called Clinton and appealed to him to intervene and stop the fighting and also help resolve the Kashmir issue. Clinton made it clear that he could help only if Pakistan first withdrew to the LoC.
Clinton also consulted Vajpayee on phone, Riedel said, observing that the Indians were adamant. Vajpayee would not not negotiate under the threat of aggression. Clinton sought to assure the Indian leader that Washington would not not countenance Pakistani aggression nor nor reward them for violating the LoC, he said adding the US stood committed to the Lahore peace process. On 3rd July, Sharif was more desperate and told President Clinton he was ready to come immediately to Washington to seek help. "The President repeated his caution 'Come only if you are ready to withdraw, I can't help you if you are not ready to pull back'," Riedel wrote. Sharif said he was coming and would be there on 4th.
Riedel said Sharif's intention also became clearer. He was bringing his wife and children with him to Washington, a possible indication he was afraid he might not be able to go home if the summit failed or that the military was telling him to leave.
Clinton started his discussion with Sharif on July 4 by handing him a cartoon from the day's Chicago Tribune newspaper that showed Pakistan and India as nuclear bombs fighting with each other.
During the parleys, the US leader, according to Riedel, reminded Sharif that Washington played a role in the Arab-Israeli conflict because both sides invited it to mediate. But this was not not the case with Kashmir.
Clinton advised that the best approach was the road begun at Lahore, that is direct contact with India. He bluntly told Sharif that Pakistan had completely undermined that opening by attacking at Kargil and it must retreat before disaster set in.
"The room was tense and Sharif visibly worried," Riedel wrote. Sharif also warned that fundamentalists in Pakistan would move agaisnt him and this meeting would be the last with him. Clinton was clear and firm. Sharif had a choice -- withdraw behind the LoC and the moral compass would tilt back towards Pakistan or stay and fight a dangerous war with India without American sympathy.
The President told Sharif he had draft statement ready to issue that would pin all the blame for the Kargil crisis on Pakistan. "The President was getting angry."
After 90 minutes of intense discussions, the meeting broke to allow each leader to meet with his team and consider next steps.
Clinton put through a short call to New Delhi just to tell Vajpayee that he was holding firm on demanding the withdrawal to the LoC, Riedel said, adding Vajpayee had little to say, even asking the President "What do you want me to say"?
Riedel said there was no view in New Delhi and none was asked for.
"After an hour, when the President, Sharif and I returned to the discussions, the President put on the table a short statement to be issued to the press to announce agreement on withdrawal to the LoC," he said.
The statement also called for a ceasefire once the withdrawal was completed and restoration of the Lahore process. It also included a reaffirmation of the President's longstanding plans to visit South Asia.
"Sharif read the statement several times quietly. He asked to talk with his team and we adjourned again," Riedel said. "After a few minutes Sharif returned with good news. The statement was acceptable with one addition," Riedel said, adding Sharif wanted a sentence added to say 'The President would take personal interest to encourage an expeditious resumption and intensification of bilateral efforts (i.e. Lahore process) once the sanctity of the LoC was fully restored.
The President then called Vajpayee to preview the statement, Riedel said.

---atleast understand what happend

 

[Black Widow]

It was hindus who needed face saver, it was your PM who went to US first, our jawans were sitting tight till that moment.

You were so afraid that you failed to step any where else.

It was your army which was trapped in Kashmir not ours.



leading columnist are not military generals.

He is anyway PPP jiyala.

It all Happen infront of our eyes, Still you live in denial?? And since when Pakistani Army started following Civilian govt order?? Pakistan must be thankful to NS, who save Pakistani Izzat in 99. Else you pakistani would have faced more shameless defeat than 71.

 

[Bang Galore]

It was hindus who needed face saver, it was your PM who went to US first, our jawans were sitting tight till that moment.

You were so afraid that you failed to step any where else.

It was your army which was trapped in Kashmir not ours.



leading columnist are not military generals.

He is anyway PPP jiyala.

Our PM went nowhere during the Kargil episode though I'm sure that you will not allow yourself to be troubled by small things like the "truth".

 

[DV RULES]

Lets qualify "Military did not take him on board that is why NS failed to handled it."
Was he to be taken to the posts in Kargil to be "on-boarded"?

at least should be taken in trust over plan and advise how to tackle political and international pressure.

 

[rubyjackass]

Musharraf should try to apply for "Guinness book of world records" for his ability to lie through the teeth.

Right on mark. This record will hold even without considering that Musharraff was the 'Big Boss'(in AQ Khan's words) of the proliferation ring. I mean it is so obvious from the North Korean missiles import that AQ Khan's sale of technology to North Korea was quid pro quo. But luckily for Pakistan, the international diplomatic community would ignore this. Because once they prove that GoP was a collaborator in nuclear proliferation, they can no longer justify their aid budgets to Pakistan and the common Pakistanis are to suffer. And this poverty would provide more fodder for the extremism. And if Pakistani government gets this public insult, they may never carry out the promised operation. Another case of gun to own head tactics of Pakistan.

 

[third eye]

Before I write anything a request to the Mods:

Pls merge this wherever felt appropriate.

Now, I notice a sudden spurt of revelations on Kargil originating from Pak media. Its like a "Kargil fortnight' of sorts. From 1999 to 2012 all was quiet on the ' western front' and now revelations are coming out of the woodwork.

For us Indians nothing new , it merely substantiates what we already know. They are the truth.

I cannot help wonder if it has something to do with the imminent return of the Commando & his stated intent to seek election ? Quite like a media campaign ' in advance' .