The Kargil Conflict Revisited

[Paan Singh]

Your second line in itself is the answer to the first line. NS was kicked out because he forced the Military to withdraw from Kargil instead of pressing home the advantage.

NS was kicked out coz as per mushy,he was giving kashmir to india.

( i m quoting direct words of mushy as he said in interview)

and same mushy followed policy of NS after being president.

Mr Maverick !!!

You are just wasting time by posting delusions and lies.

 

[ejaz007]

I agree with this theory the MiG-27 has a history of known engine related problems which is why the Russians retired them so quickly. Not to mention the Pakistanis getting all tickled pink on this thread seem to forget that they technically lost the war because as Musharaf stated himself the purpose was to cut off Indian supply lines to Siachen prompting a Pakistani takeover or a Indian unilateral withdrawal neither of which occurred being that the war was in India's favor since the Pakistani military retreated (as a result of a deteriorating war scenario and with no international support not even from China.)

This was the main purpose and was initially achieved. Remember from Daras Batalik sectors Pakistan had a clear sight of the road leading to the Indian front lines in Siachin. We also got good chances of shooting down the helicopters trying to go through the aerial router from this side. To force India into some sort of compromise or withdrawal from Siachin we needed some time and that was not available since Nawaz Sharif flew to Washington and accepted withdrawal.

I would just like to point here that the debate on the topic is a legthy one and has been going on for some time. In order to calculate the success or failure of a mission different paramters are used and when these are employed to Kargil it can neither be called a complete failure nor success.

One small indicator is that Pakistan still holds on to very favourable point(s) with atleast one inside Indian side of the LOC. We still have a view of the main road I believe highway and can cause some problem if needed.

 

[Mav3rick]

Mazrat ke saath sirji im amazed this thread is still running and pakistanies still concinced it was a great tactikal win and all that blah blah but you know it and all the world knows it after kargil a few things which were a joke to mani paksitani think tanks anjd some western symethyisers alike

1. India was able to potray the evil and stupid side of Pakistani Milittarry elite that they can never be trusted and when you trust them they will stab you in the back

2.Most Pakistani Generals were under the imprassion that Indians are baniyas and will never have guts to attack them in tactikalli favourable situation (NLI & so called Mujahideens on Hill tops) but india did attack and killed them all like rats stuck in there holes

3.We indians won a few freinds deu to stupidity of few Pakistani Army generals like (Israel & US) and The best friends dint come to Pakistans rescue

now whether most paksitanies like it or not and no matter how much they try to avade the painfull situation they are right now in they just cant undo the facts on the ground and it seems its becoming a destiny of sorts for the pios people of Land Of the Pure ...sad but true isnt it

Point 1 -> India was able to portray Pakistani Military as the evil side, agreed. But the bit about back stabbing is incorrect, you have stabbed us more then then vice versa. You are doing it even now.

Point 2 -> Your assumptions about assumptions of Pakistani Generals is quite ridiculous at best. The only expectation was that India would not escalate the matter into a full blown war and it was correct as was proved later. Furthermore, the assumption of Pakistani Generals that Indian Military would not be able to reclaim her posts from a few thousand odd fighters proved correct too as is evident from the fact that Pakistan was forced to withdraw fighters through international diplomatic pressure rather then Indian Military progress.

Point 3 -> You won friends because of timing of things and becuase of your mutual hatred of Islam.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Point 1 -> India was able to portray Pakistani Military as the evil side, agreed. But the bit about back stabbing is incorrect, you have stabbed us more then then vice versa. You are doing it even now.

Point 2 -> Your assumptions about assumptions of Pakistani Generals is quite ridiculous at best. The only expectation was that India would not escalate the matter into a full blown war and it was correct as was proved later. Furthermore, the assumption of Pakistani Generals that Indian Military would not be able to reclaim her posts from a few thousand odd fighters proved correct too as is evident from the fact that Pakistan was forced to withdraw fighters through international diplomatic pressure rather then Indian Military progress.

Point 3 -> You won friends because of timing of things and becuase of your mutual hatred of Islam.

well sir whether we lot XYZ no of brave young lads up there in Kargil war we prooved the world again that we wont take bull**** laying down we will retaliate now thats another matter what do you come owt with explanation for such stupid an ill timed attacks again and again it refferms what we laready said about you its not hate islam dont try to get symethy of world deu to there illogical and stupid mooves they should have thought it before jumping into the fire but they dint and now deu to there idioticy and greed paksitanies are pauing by there blood and nobody seems to bother about your plight well its worked well so far for us keep it up

 

[Mav3rick]

Wrong assessment again.

AS per your military obeservers.They never knew that india will respond like this.You can quote them in recent videos.
when it was asked to javed hassan,he dint have any answer on it.This was the preparation level on your part.


and as per few officers ,Your naval officers applied for vacations during the kargil war.

Kargil was planned by 4, only these 4 knew the details and possibilities of Indian responses. Their assessment was correct that India would not escalate the matter into an all out war. The assessment proved correct in either case whether we take your word that India defeated back all insurgents or my word that India could hardly gain anything in Kargil.

Pakistani forces, as usual, were prepared for defense should the need arise....it was most likely these preparations and the bitter memories of the past that made sure India stay put. Something like what happened in 2001/02 when you had deployed almost 700,000-800,000 soldiers at our border only to withdraw unconditionally instead of being able to bring up guts to cross even an inch of the border or LoC!

Wrong again!!!!!

Your 270 soldiers are buried in india and 300 got killed in one strike of mirages.
As per all officers,your casulties were way higher than 1100 .
Mushy said in interview that 260 are the casualties but in his book,he claimed 470.Who is confused here?

Keep lying and it wont change anything on ground.

Lets say, for arguments sake, our casualties were in the vicinity of 1100, what does that change as yours were dying by the thousands. I mean imagine running short of coffins in a country of Billion+!!!!

Mushy during his tenure never let anybody to talk about kargil and he is still saying that there is no need of kargil commission.
it proves a lot of things.

and i will take words of those retired officers who knows more than any random pdf poster who is in denial.

Musharraf does not trust the politicians or their commissions, bring me the report of a single commission ever set up in the history of Pakistan that was not disputed by all, far and wide. Even we do not trust these commissions, what happened to the abbotabad commission and its report?

India never ceded any part of BD even during 71 war.Even during 65,we got 3 times more land than you took but we went to original positions.

Just your propaganda machine at work, you never won anything worthwhile, ever.

You can search all over internet and show me where indian PM was under pressure.Why we will go under pressure?
when we were bombing on peaks and your casulties were rising and soldiers were on no backup and international pressure is separate..then why?

Well, you were ordering coffins from the USA!!!! There must be something that was making your legs cruble, perhaps the massive death toll???

Only inefficiency from indian side was failure to detect it and sending wrong fighters to the war who were not designed for ground combat and your success was only till that when indians started to bring artillery.

and i will say once again that,india transport facilites through air on siachin and we could do it despite of shelling of highway number 1.

This was told be gen aziz to javed hassan and he ignored it.

so this tells what kind of operation you were preparing

Concentrate on Kargil, Siachin is a matter left for some other thread.

NS was kicked out coz as per mushy,he was giving kashmir to india.

( i m quoting direct words of mushy as he said in interview)

and same mushy followed policy of NS after being president.

Mr Maverick !!!

You are just wasting time by posting delusions and lies.

Post the interview, or a link to it, please.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

Your second line in itself is the answer to the first line. NS was kicked out because he forced the Military to withdraw from Kargil instead of pressing home the advantage.

In Pakistan no prime minister can call back the army by over ruling the army chief and other top commanders. Pakistan is a national security state , and the army controls it's foreign policy and pretty much everything important.
just look at the drone strikes happening in Pakistan.. civilian govt is cursed by people of Pakistan for allowing American drones in pak soil, army is still seen as a holy cow, but the fact is that the drone strikes are happening with the silent signal from pak army side, why are they doing it ? it's multiple reasons, one of the reasons is America is a super power and you can't make them your enemy, even if you say no to them they might go ahead with the drone strike, so it will be an embarrassing situation for army..so they don't mess with America..sorry for being off topic there but when the same super power America asks Pakistan none in pak is able to say no, neither your Pm nor your mighty army chief..to make it worse there was huge media and international pressure on Pakistan, and you were pretty much exposed in front of the world , and on war zone your supply lines were broken and you were getting bombarded from air..the accumulative pressure from all these factors was too much for your your political and military leaders to stand. Many prominent politicians, journalists, army officers who themselves involved in kargil called it a lost war both politically and militarily..against their testimonys all you have is the words of perpetrator himself.

 

[karan.1970]

Poetry ka bathanger bana dya hai, poetry to pelhay sahi ker lo.

Jazbaat samajh aane chahiyen.. Alfaazon mein kya rakkha hai..

And you have understood the underlying sentiment I guess

 

[trident2010]

Hindustani soldiers cannot fight because they are baniyas !!

Baniyao ne Pakistani Generalo ko Aate Daal ke bhaav bata diye ..

 

[EyelessInGaza]

The indian soldiers young and brave - were wiped out with GPMG's barrels glowing red - and the waves of indians being cut down, like the Punjabi wheat at harvest time. It was a sight to see, going through belongings to establish and confirm intel was very poignant - pictures of wives, girl friends, letters written.

Some where in the indian hinterland - these young women would be blissfully unaware - that their young mans, brains and guts were oozing over a bleak peak in a corner of the world.

Very interesting and colourful fantasies.

Have PA published any pictures or documents verifying these claims of "pictures, letters" etc recovered from bodies of IA soldiers? Please answer this question.

I know IA has published letters, diaries, id cards of NLI soldiers and officers who died in their hundreds in the Kargil war.

But unlike you, I won't go into fantasy, war **** like descriptions of brave men dying.