The Indian Ocean riposte (Stunning news about the S3 & S4 & S4*)

[SuperSubrayan]

Basically every arty gun in service today either needs to be replaced or up-gunned and upgraded within the next few years along with a vast amount of new guns (of all kinds) being inducted.

The arty arm, thanks to the shadow of Bofors, is in a real real mess (on the tube side, the rocket side is pretty decent) but I am pretty hopeful that the next few years will see a revival of the arty regiment's fortunes.

Let's just hope the new DM is pushing hard to get these arty deals cleared.

Sure ! DM aware of our problems faced by our forces. Things are taking place at very faster phase. Let's see what will happen . We supposed to get 1500 bofors guns but due to corruption this full deal was not met ! Some 400 procured. Since we have ToT we will procure upgraded guns indigenously . Our smaller towed guns are upgraded to 155 mm too. But I too be life we need lots more. Which our men guarding us deserves it . 4-5 billions is been sanctioned already I guess.

 

[Gessler]

S5 & S6 are confirmed at 10,000 tonnes.

Where? By whom?

 

[Penguin]

Did I even mention SSBNs anywhere in my post that you are responding to?

Ah, correct you are. I apologize.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Ah, correct you are. I apologize.

Ah friend, that is no matter at all......... Let us just keep the information flowing.

 

[SuperSubrayan]

Now check this out ! Again another twist by this writer . He be lives additional 2 Arihant class with ability to carry latest K4 and other new system has follow on !!! I think he belives S4* and S4 ** on the card . And it's looks like SSN will be constructed in separate supply line . Which contradict my assessment of first 4 SSBN then 6 SSN then 3/6 SSBN . But it's good thing to do if we can .

So here is the article : Please leave ur comments on this 15 year time line . 5 Arihant + 6 SSN +5 huge SSBN + 2 leased SSN. Long live Mother India

Rise of India’s Nuclear Submarine fleet
Published March 31, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE: SUDESH CHARI / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW



Nuclear-powered submarine on Lease from Russia “INS Chakra ” might be Sole operational Nuclear submarine in Indian Navies fleet in 2015, but Indian government and Indian navy have drafted impressive fleet expansion plan with key focus area been induction of more Nuclear-propelled submarines in next 15 years.

In 1999 Cabinet Committee on Security, (CCS) had approved 30-year submarine-building plan, which envisaged induction of 12 new submarines by 2012, followed by another dozen by 2030. Delays in construction of submarines in Project-75 and delays in getting approvals in setting up Project-75I means original deadline will be missed by a mile and development of Nuclear technology in house means focus too has shifted from acquiring conventional diesel submarines to nuclear powered ones .

Arihant Class (3+2)

INS Arihant India’s first indigenously built nuclear-powered submarine (SSBN) is already conducting Sea trials and will soon be ready for testing of weapons which will include K-15 and K-4 Ballistic missiles and will officially join Indian navy by end of 2016 . Second submarine (INS Aridhaman ) or S-3 is already in advanced stages of fabrication and likely will be launched by year end. Last Submarine dubbed S-4 too is under construction and will be ready by 2018 for Sea Trails. 3 Arihant Sister class of ships will complete first leg of Nuclear triad. There is also strong Indication that 2 more follow-up order of Arihant class ships will be built , 2 Ships will be similar to Arihant but will have improved Weapons systems and will be first Submarine able to carry new class of SLBM which will be K-5 SLBM with range of more then 5000km still under development .

New SSN (6)

Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) last year also cleared construction of 6 new nuclear-powered general-purpose attack submarine (SSN) to be undertaken at the secretive ship-building center (SBC) at Vizag. New SSN Subs will be similar to Arihant class in Size but will be heavy influenced by Akula-2 technology and Indian Navy and DRDO are working closely in studying and improving Stealth aspect of the yet to be constructed submarines. According to Ex Naval officers, Submarine will take 8-9 years before roll out can happen of new submarines and in next two years design will be finalised and a parallel production line will be setup. SSN will be armed with BrahMos-NG which can be Tube-launched and also carry Naval variant of Nirbhay Cruise missiles.

New SSBN (5)

After completion of Arihant Class SSBN, India is committed to further develop bigger next generation SSBN class of submarines which will be able to carry much more Weapons and crew. According to Naval officers, New SSBN will be double the size of Arihant Class submarines and will be able to carry twice the amount of weapons . construction of which will begin in 2023 on wards when last of Arihant class Submarine is delivered to India navy . Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) is yet to clear such Proposal, but it will likely happen sometime in next three years.

Second Akula-II-class submarine

Russia has agreed to lease Second K-322 Kashalot aka Akula-II-class submarine which according to reports will be delivered to India by 2018, India already has inducted INS Chakra-II in 2012 and this will be Second Nuclear submarine leased from Russia .

New Core Reactor

BARC has started working on New high powered Pressurized water reactors (PWRs) according to BARC Scientist new reactor will be 50% more powerful than 83 MW reactor used on Arihant. BARC want to use it on larger SSBN which will be follow-up on Arihant class and which will require more power since it will bigger platform. Navy also wants bigger PWR for New SSN class of submarines which according to navy requirements will see 100% jump in additional power requirements compared to one used in Arihant class. BARC still not cl

 

[Penguin]

You might be right. Jane said CCS cleared 6 SSBN, but this article says it was 6 SSN.

But the article also says development of K5 Misile which will require a new class of SSBN to carry them since they will not fit into the Arihant class.

About the Akula-II Lease, it is likely that the lease will be extended rather than let go. IN and GoI has that option available to them on the contract.

But consider the worst case scenario, IN will have 10 Nuclear submarines, at Best case scenario, IN will have 17.

Sounds like Janes clip was wrong.

I'm not so sure about the conclusion that the K5 will requiring a new class of SSBN: it doesn't say so in the text of post 1. HOwever, taking a detailed look at the graphic, the conclusion is a total of 4 Arihant SSBN (of which 3 with 8 rather than 4 ICBM launchers), 3 larger SSBN with 12 launchers for K5 and 6 SSN.Perhaps retaining 2 Russian SSN. So, best case scenario: 7 SSBN and 8 SSN (15 nuclear subs total). Worst case: 6 SSBN (Arihant itself retiring) and 6 SSN (Russian subs retiring).

If you have 3 bastions, you want to have 3 subs available and perhaps a spare for each type.

 

[Levina]

Don't worry about it @levina these yards are very well protected and there is little risk in publicising such info. Other navies publicise these activities much more- the RN gives weekly updates on the progress of the construction of their QE class aircraft carriers for example.

The IN still keeps what it needs/wants to very quiet i.e. specific info on its strategic assets (SSBNs, SSNs, ELF facility etc etc).

Gotcha!
What about google earth pics of docks?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Gotcha!
What about google earth pics of docks?

AFAIK the GoI has an agreement with Google that they don't publish google map images of specific military installations for six or so months.

 

[Levina]

AFAIK the GoI has an agreement with Google that they don't publish google map images of specific military installations for six or so months.

hmmm
I think you're right, this is what i found on net (this is an old pic then)

http://fas.org/programs/ssp/nukes/images/arihant2012.jpg

 

[RISING SUN]

Where? By whom?

It was officially reported 1-2 year back by defence ministry itself saying they have approved two More SSBNs(almost 2 times size of Arihant class board). In initail first post in this thread news is confirming the same thing, only change they are saying is three 10,000 tonne boats instead of two. It seems ministry is standardizing the numbers and following two number series. First one is 7 boat contract broken in two, 4plus3. And second one again broken in two, 6plus3. It is maybe applicable in all type of boats, subs, destroyer, frigate, corvettes and patrol vessels. If you closely see then even LPD is also going same way 4plus3. Same in Scorpion and P74I conventional sub also. This number game is my imagination only which I am trying to see through. Might be correct or wrong.

yes they will. Agni-6 is land as well as submarine based missile. That info was accidentally released by DRDO.


India developing 6000 km range Agni-6 SLBM with MIRV

Its technology might be incorparated in K-series missile but its induction in subs doesn't seem possible to me partly due to k series missiles are a gift to Kalam sir and DRDO would not something stupid to claim otherwise. Underwater missiles are designated as K series due to the respects shown by country to Kalam sir. That was the reason I said no Agni missile will be inducted in subs. Thank you.

Now check this out ! Again another twist by this writer . He be lives additional 2 Arihant class with ability to carry latest K4 and other new system has follow on !!! I think he belives S4* and S4 ** on the card . And it's looks like SSN will be constructed in separate supply line . Which contradict my assessment of first 4 SSBN then 6 SSN then 3/6 SSBN . But it's good thing to do if we can .

So here is the article : Please leave ur comments on this 15 year time line . 5 Arihant + 6 SSN +5 huge SSBN + 2 leased SSN. Long live Mother India

Rise of India’s Nuclear Submarine fleet
Published March 31, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE: SUDESH CHARI / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW



Nuclear-powered submarine on Lease from Russia “INS Chakra ” might be Sole operational Nuclear submarine in Indian Navies fleet in 2015, but Indian government and Indian navy have drafted impressive fleet expansion plan with key focus area been induction of more Nuclear-propelled submarines in next 15 years.

In 1999 Cabinet Committee on Security, (CCS) had approved 30-year submarine-building plan, which envisaged induction of 12 new submarines by 2012, followed by another dozen by 2030. Delays in construction of submarines in Project-75 and delays in getting approvals in setting up Project-75I means original deadline will be missed by a mile and development of Nuclear technology in house means focus too has shifted from acquiring conventional diesel submarines to nuclear powered ones .

Arihant Class (3+2)

INS Arihant India’s first indigenously built nuclear-powered submarine (SSBN) is already conducting Sea trials and will soon be ready for testing of weapons which will include K-15 and K-4 Ballistic missiles and will officially join Indian navy by end of 2016 . Second submarine (INS Aridhaman ) or S-3 is already in advanced stages of fabrication and likely will be launched by year end. Last Submarine dubbed S-4 too is under construction and will be ready by 2018 for Sea Trails. 3 Arihant Sister class of ships will complete first leg of Nuclear triad. There is also strong Indication that 2 more follow-up order of Arihant class ships will be built , 2 Ships will be similar to Arihant but will have improved Weapons systems and will be first Submarine able to carry new class of SLBM which will be K-5 SLBM with range of more then 5000km still under development .

New SSN (6)

Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) last year also cleared construction of 6 new nuclear-powered general-purpose attack submarine (SSN) to be undertaken at the secretive ship-building center (SBC) at Vizag. New SSN Subs will be similar to Arihant class in Size but will be heavy influenced by Akula-2 technology and Indian Navy and DRDO are working closely in studying and improving Stealth aspect of the yet to be constructed submarines. According to Ex Naval officers, Submarine will take 8-9 years before roll out can happen of new submarines and in next two years design will be finalised and a parallel production line will be setup. SSN will be armed with BrahMos-NG which can be Tube-launched and also carry Naval variant of Nirbhay Cruise missiles.

New SSBN (5)

After completion of Arihant Class SSBN, India is committed to further develop bigger next generation SSBN class of submarines which will be able to carry much more Weapons and crew. According to Naval officers, New SSBN will be double the size of Arihant Class submarines and will be able to carry twice the amount of weapons . construction of which will begin in 2023 on wards when last of Arihant class Submarine is delivered to India navy . Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) is yet to clear such Proposal, but it will likely happen sometime in next three years.

Second Akula-II-class submarine

Russia has agreed to lease Second K-322 Kashalot aka Akula-II-class submarine which according to reports will be delivered to India by 2018, India already has inducted INS Chakra-II in 2012 and this will be Second Nuclear submarine leased from Russia .

New Core Reactor

BARC has started working on New high powered Pressurized water reactors (PWRs) according to BARC Scientist new reactor will be 50% more powerful than 83 MW reactor used on Arihant. BARC want to use it on larger SSBN which will be follow-up on Arihant class and which will require more power since it will bigger platform. Navy also wants bigger PWR for New SSN class of submarines which according to navy requirements will see 100% jump in additional power requirements compared to one used in Arihant class. BARC still not cl

Its all rumors only. What is confirmed till now is given below. Please go through it. First thing S1 is land based exprerimental reactor for testing purpose. S2 is Arihant. Then S3 & S4 are confirmed as of now with same size but double load. S4* is rumored to be in building from last 3-4 years and will have watch out for it. Then there will be two confirmed almost double weight follow on BOOMERs of Arihant class, there is rumor of one more so in total we might have three 10 K boomers instead of confirmed two. These will be built in current manufacturing line. Then we are further establishing another manufacturing line for attack nuke subs. First of all six first generation attack subs will total six(confirmed) then three more ssn will be built after a decade as part of long term plan.

Sounds like Janes clip was wrong.

I'm not so sure about the conclusion that the K5 will requiring a new class of SSBN: it doesn't say so in the text of post 1. HOwever, taking a detailed look at the graphic, the conclusion is a total of 4 Arihant SSBN (of which 3 with 8 rather than 4 ICBM launchers), 3 larger SSBN with 12 launchers for K5 and 6 SSN.Perhaps retaining 2 Russian SSN. So, best case scenario: 7 SSBN and 8 SSN (15 nuclear subs total). Worst case: 6 SSBN (Arihant itself retiring) and 6 SSN (Russian subs retiring).

If you have 3 bastions, you want to have 3 subs available and perhaps a spare for each type.

conclusion is wrong mate.

 

[Víðarr]

SORYU technology will make Indian SSN the most feared SSN in the world

I know who you are, your post style and content betrays your identity.

Also, the Virginia class says hello.

This is and will remain the world's best SSN, especially as newer blocks come online - each featuring design differences such as the Virginia Payload Module and a new Horseshoe shaped sonar instead of the traditional spherical-water backed shape. Also, considering certain mechanical differences, such as engine design, as well as tactics and doctrine - patrol versus ambush attacks, Soryu quieting systems will not be as effective on an SSN as they are on an SSK. Why would Soryu's engine help an Indian SSN? How would its anechoic tiles perform on a fast moving patrol sub - like an ocean going SSN, versus an ambush hunter like an SSK? Too many unanswered questions needing to be answered first before making any grandiose claims about being the "most feared."

Let's hold off on the "most feared" moniker. Nothing a women hates more than premature excitement.

 

[IND151]

It is still not complete list. There will be three more submarines which will be inducted around 2025. These will be follow on submarines of SSN. And first three(doubt about forth) will be converted into SSGN after three follow on submarines become operational. In total we will have 11 SSN, 3 -4 SSBN, remaining 3-4 SSGN. All board will be fully operational by 2028. Thank you.


For recon purpose its ok. But I wouldn't like a unmanned nuke boat to venture near enemy waters. And regarding INS Aridhman, its tonnage is same as Arihant. Only weapon load is increased, just like in Kolkata class boats.


As per my information there will be three more boats follow on of First generation SSNs. Their timeline is mid 2025 to closing of financial year in 2028.


We Indians tend to get lost in hypes and miss the fine details. Forth SSBN was already mentioned many times in need in domestic news. Although three 10k boat is surprise for me also as I knew only about 2 10k tonnage boats. Coming on supply lines there will be two distinct supply lines for nuke subs, one for SSN and another for SSBN.


It was a surprise to me as well but indeed government has ordered 4 plus 3 SSBN. And India is interested in Akula 2 but Russians are interested in leasing us two more SSN boats.


Yup. You three follow on SSBN and two leased SSNs.

How much?

 

[Indo-guy]

I'm actually looking to know what is the rating of its power reactor? It certainly has to be more than 84 MW currently used.
Akula 2 has on-board power plant of 190+ MW rating and if we are looking at similar displacement size vessel, it means more than doubling the core capacity of powerpack (with incremental increase in physical size of core, to accommodate more fuel bundles).
Now if such a thing is being developed, it can be used for IAC 2 as well (in pairs) and hence all this development if seen holistically has large implications on how our fleet (especially proposed CBGs) would look in next decade onwards.
@Capt.Popeye @Skull and Bones

This was the reply by Mr Prasun K Sengupta on his blog dated August 2013 .

7) Financial sanction has just been accorded for BARC & NPCIL to co-develop an indigenous 900mW PWR by upscaling the 83mW LWR that was developed for the S-2/Arihant, S-3 & S-4 SSBNs.
8) Financial sanction has been just accorded for BARC to develop a 190mW LWR by upscaling the 83mW LWR. This 190mW LWR will also be offered for installation on the projected IAC-2, & on the S-5, S-6 & S-7 SSBNs.
9) Plans are now afoot to seek sanction for an advanced (but upscaled to 150mW) derivative of the 83mW LWR, this being for the IN’s projected reqmt for nine SSNs similar to the Barracuda-class SSN from DCNS.


TRISHUL: Sensor Fitments Of IAC-1/INS Vikrant & INS Vikramaditya Explained



we can assume that the work is in progress for 190 Mw LWR....

We are unlikely hear much about it till it's actually done anyway .

 

[ni8mare]

This was the reply by Mr Prasun K Sengupta on his blog dated August 2013 .

7) Financial sanction has just been accorded for BARC & NPCIL to co-develop an indigenous 900mW PWR by upscaling the 83mW LWR that was developed for the S-2/Arihant, S-3 & S-4 SSBNs.
8) Financial sanction has been just accorded for BARC to develop a 190mW LWR by upscaling the 83mW LWR. This 190mW LWR will also be offered for installation on the projected IAC-2, & on the S-5, S-6 & S-7 SSBNs.
9) Plans are now afoot to seek sanction for an advanced (but upscaled to 150mW) derivative of the 83mW LWR, this being for the IN’s projected reqmt for nine SSNs similar to the Barracuda-class SSN from DCNS.


TRISHUL: Sensor Fitments Of IAC-1/INS Vikrant & INS Vikramaditya Explained



we can assume that the work is in progress for 190 Mw LWR....

We are unlikely hear much about it till it's actually done anyway .

so 190 MW for s5/6/7
150 MW for SSNs
83 MW for S2/3/4/4*

 

[Penguin]

Yup. You three follow on SSBN and two leased SSNs.

No, I left out the SSNs leased, since those at some point have to be returned, unless the lease of the boat-life is indefinite... Besides, lease boats are not built in India.