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The future of the Pakistani Diaspora and cultural and political links with the motherland

There is poor and there is poor. In Pakistan the poor in our village live in mud huts or temporary shelters, have no transport, no access to healthcare, can't afford electricity, clothes, school.

In the UK, those who are really poor get free healthcare, free education, get enough money from the state to pay for rent and food. A very small percentage of the Pakistani diaspora are this kind of poor. Most are a different "poor".

Take the "poor" taxi driver. He makes £500-600 a week profit from his taxi, claims on his tax returns to have only made £200, claims state benefit to top up his wages, lives in a house in a deprived part of the city, but has completely rennovated it inside and out, has expensive furniture and fittings, goes on holidays paid for by cash, has zameen and a villa back home in Pakistan. The same is true for the poor takeaway owner, who or staff member who only works "part time". The takeaway owners by far have the most money in our community - the staff make minimum wage at best i reckon.

Times are changing though.The first generation here did not do this - they worked in factories and paid their way. Then when the rug was pulled out from under their feet and manufacturing finished in the UK, people did what they had to, to survive and to support those back home (that is why we are all here). The next generation continued it as it was quick cash and an opportunity to aquire wealth - money overtakes morals very often.

Now the incentive to do so is less.

1. Cost of living is higher, more of the economy is documented, so you're more likely to get caught.

2. People have mostly established themselves back home. The fresh migrants are still interested in supporting family, the rest of us are now interested in investing money back home.

3. People want more from life. People want expensive cars, they want homes in the suburbs - you can't but that with cash. People show their legitimate income to secure that (even if it is for a few years).

So whats my point?

1. The UK/West provides a safety net for the poor, a net which doesn't exist in PK.
2. People aren't as poor as they appear to be.

There are I would say two extremes of Pakistanis living in the UK.

The ones who came in the 60s to work in the Northern mill towns. Yet now the majority of these industries have closed. My family are included in this group.

The other group are the more recent Pakistani migrants many who work in higher paying jobs, mainly medicine, engineering etc.

Yet even if we take into account the later group, Pakistanis are still on average some of the lowest earners in the country:

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...nefits/pay-and-income/household-income/latest

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...its/pay-and-income/income-distribution/latest

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentan.../articles/ethnicitypaygapsingreatbritain/2018
 
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To answer the OP, it'll be a split. Some will lose the Pakistani identity over time, some will continue to hold onto it. It depends entirely on upbringing, as the Pakistani community as a whole (especially in Britain) does absolutely nothing for Pakistani identity.

I'll give you an example of my own city. Every August 14th, the Pakistani community Centre will have a flag raising ceremony with the same old ancient wrinkled faces, and a photographer (obviously). Meanwhile some of the youngsters will drive around in cars waving flags up and down the high street playing dil dil Pakistan...lol

Never has it occured to these old duffers to make that ceremony a community event. Maybe have a Pakistan mela, get some stalls, some educational stalls, some talks, bouncy castles etc etc. They can manage it for Eid, but August 14th (or nearest weekend) - forget about it.

The success of Pakistan will also link into this. There are plenty of people like me who'd love to raise our kids in Pakistan, if we could have the same standard of living we can enjoy in the UK as a middle class person. for me to enjoy that standard of living in PK, i need to be really wealthy.
 
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To answer the OP, it'll be a split. Some will lose the Pakistani identity over time, some will continue to hold onto it. It depends entirely on upbringing, as the Pakistani community as a whole (especially in Britain) does absolutely nothing for Pakistani identity.

I'll give you an example of my own city. Every August 14th, the Pakistani community Centre will have a flag raising ceremony with the same old ancient wrinkled faces, and a photographer (obviously). Meanwhile some of the youngsters will drive around in cars waving flags up and down the high street playing dil dil Pakistan...lol

Never has it occured to these old duffers to make that ceremony a community event. Maybe have a Pakistan mela, get some stalls, some educational stalls, some talks, bouncy castles etc etc. They can manage it for Eid, but August 14th (or nearest weekend) - forget about it.

The success of Pakistan will also link into this. There are plenty of people like me who'd love to raise our kids in Pakistan, if we could have the same standard of living we can enjoy in the UK as a middle class person. for me to enjoy that standard of living in PK, i need to be really wealthy.
It's not just about standard of living. A person brought up in the West would expect justice, security, meritocracy, before he would feel comfortable living in Pakistan.
None of these things are readily available in Pakistan.
 
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More than 200 million people are living in Pakistan without any problem.


Security justice etc are available to everyone. These things are not available only when you are poor and other party is very influential
Absence makes the heart grow fonder.
 
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As Pakistanis are Brown and not White
Brown qualifies you as belonging to huge portion of the globe including India. Is Pakistan being reductive to 'brown'. And if that template is applied there are only Black, White, Brown, Yellow identities in the world. "Pakistan" does not even figure in it.
Pakistanis are fairly practising Muslims
If being Muslim is the template then there are over 40 Muslim states. Nothing remotely Pakistani about that. The OP asks "future of Pakistani diaspora". Not "Muslim diaspora". If the religious template was applied then a gora Angrez converting to Muslim is more Pakistani then a first gen Pakistani Sikh or Ahmedi.

maxresdefault.jpg
 
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Brown qualifies you as belonging to huge portion of the globe including India. Is Pakistan being reductive to 'brown'. And if that template is applied there are only Black, White, Brown, Yellow identities in the world. "Pakistan" does not even figure in it.
If being Muslim is the template then there are over 40 Muslim states. Nothing remotely Pakistani about that. The OP asks "future of Pakistani diaspora". Not "Muslim diaspora". If the religious template was applied then a gora Angrez converting to Muslim is more Pakistani then a first gen Pakistani Sikh or Ahmedi.

maxresdefault.jpg



Lol......sorry bro.........:lol: I meant being Brown is one of the factors that differentiates us from the host White English population. But yes our Pakistani identity is far deeper than that.
 
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Lol......sorry bro.........:lol: I meant being Brown is one of the factors that differentiates us from the host White English population. But yes our Pakistani identity is far deeper than that.
To me a Pakistani is -

  • a person born within the borders of what is Pakistan
  • a person whose parents or their parents were born within the borders of Pakistan
  • a person who considers himself/herself as originating from within borders of Pakistan
  • a person who takes pride in that identity and owns it
  • a person who could within reason be be able to apply for NADRA card [see below]

note no mention of religion, skin colour is made. Maybe you can add extra caveats.

* If this caveat is not met but all others are then that person might not be legally a Pakistani but he/she can still be called "of Pakistani origin".
 
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To me a Pakistani is -

  • a person born within the borders of what is Pakistan
  • a person whose parents or their parents were born within the borders of Pakistan
  • a person who considers himself/herself as originating from within borders of Pakistan
  • a person who takes pride in that identity and owns it
  • a person who could within reason be be able to apply for NADRA card [see below]

note no mention of religion, skin colour is made. Maybe you can add extra caveats.

* If this caveat is not met but all others are then that person might not be legally a Pakistani but he/she can still be called "of Pakistani origin".




I fully agree with the above. Religion or skin colour is not important.
 
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There are I would say two extremes of Pakistanis living in the UK.

The ones who came in the 60s to work in the Northern mill towns. Yet now the majority of these industries have closed. My family are included in this group.

The other group are the more recent Pakistani migrants many who work in higher paying jobs, mainly medicine, engineering etc.

Yet even if we take into account the later group, Pakistanis are still on average some of the lowest earners in the country:

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...nefits/pay-and-income/household-income/latest

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...its/pay-and-income/income-distribution/latest

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentan.../articles/ethnicitypaygapsingreatbritain/2018
And you believe these figures? Pakistani's are as adept at avoiding paying tax, running a paralel economy as they do in Pakistan as in UK. Many, many moons ago I remember having this very discussion at university. Finally not getting anywhere I asked the students many rented from private landlords. Then asked them how many were Pakistani's? That settled that question.

That beared lala wearing a nondescript creased shalwar kameez will be playing with 100k as pocket change when he sends it throught the hawal transfers going as 'money exchange' or 'travel agents'.

There is poor and there is poor. In Pakistan the poor in our village live in mud huts or temporary shelters, have no transport, no access to healthcare, can't afford electricity, clothes, school.

In the UK, those who are really poor get free healthcare, free education, get enough money from the state to pay for rent and food. A very small percentage of the Pakistani diaspora are this kind of poor. Most are a different "poor".

Take the "poor" taxi driver. He makes £500-600 a week profit from his taxi, claims on his tax returns to have only made £200, claims state benefit to top up his wages, lives in a house in a deprived part of the city, but has completely rennovated it inside and out, has expensive furniture and fittings, goes on holidays paid for by cash, has zameen and a villa back home in Pakistan. The same is true for the poor takeaway owner, who or staff member who only works "part time". The takeaway owners by far have the most money in our community - the staff make minimum wage at best i reckon.

Times are changing though.The first generation here did not do this - they worked in factories and paid their way. Then when the rug was pulled out from under their feet and manufacturing finished in the UK, people did what they had to, to survive and to support those back home (that is why we are all here). The next generation continued it as it was quick cash and an opportunity to aquire wealth - money overtakes morals very often.

Now the incentive to do so is less.

1. Cost of living is higher, more of the economy is documented, so you're more likely to get caught.

2. People have mostly established themselves back home. The fresh migrants are still interested in supporting family, the rest of us are now interested in investing money back home.

3. People want more from life. People want expensive cars, they want homes in the suburbs - you can't but that with cash. People show their legitimate income to secure that (even if it is for a few years).

So whats my point?

1. The UK/West provides a safety net for the poor, a net which doesn't exist in PK.
2. People aren't as poor as they appear to be.
Great post.
 
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To me a Pakistani is -

  • a person born within the borders of what is Pakistan
  • a person whose parents or their parents were born within the borders of Pakistan
  • a person who considers himself/herself as originating from within borders of Pakistan
  • a person who takes pride in that identity and owns it
  • a person who could within reason be be able to apply for NADRA card [see below]
My Maternal and Paternal GrandParents were from Present day India but my Parents were born in Pakistan. Am I a Pakistani?
@PAKISTANFOREVER
 
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Those who lose their Pakistani heritage and connection to Pakistan will eventually face the same fate the Jews of Germany did

These words are Golden:coffee::pakistan:

I doubt that...

Hitler and the Nazis persecuted the Jews as they felt they had too much power and influence in their country. They claimed they controlled the banks, the media, the government etc.

Pakistanis have done none of this.

If your predicting some sort of race war in the future though, then I suppose we will all suffer the same fate and nobody would win...
 
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