The future of the Pakistani Diaspora and cultural and political links with the motherland

[TSA321]

If being Muslim is the template then there are over 40 Muslim states. Nothing remotely Pakistani about that. The OP asks "future of Pakistani diaspora". Not "Muslim diaspora". If the religious template was applied then a gora Angrez converting to Muslim is more Pakistani then a first gen Pakistani Sikh or Ahmedi.

British Pakistanis (along with Bangladeshis) have the lowest rate of marrying out side of their own group, and the major reason for that is that both groups are mostly practising Muslims. This means marrying a native White Brit is out of the question for most of them. Most stick to marrying their own ethnicity or a Muslim from another ethnicity.
That's all I was saying.

 

[Yankee-stani]

There are I would say two extremes of Pakistanis living in the UK.

The ones who came in the 60s to work in the Northern mill towns. Yet now the majority of these industries have closed. My family are included in this group.

The other group are the more recent Pakistani migrants many who work in higher paying jobs, mainly medicine, engineering etc.

Yet even if we take into account the later group, Pakistanis are still on average some of the lowest earners in the country:

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...nefits/pay-and-income/household-income/latest

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures...its/pay-and-income/income-distribution/latest

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentan.../articles/ethnicitypaygapsingreatbritain/2018

Immigration to the States did not became massive for us until the early 70s because prior to 1965 the US had racial quotas from like the 1920s-1965 however during the British Raj there was stream of immigration from Punjab to California,and Texas sort of most intermarried with Hispanics from 1965 onwards it was mainly college students and professionals but around the 1980s and 1990s when diversity lottery came about more of the low class came so its been mix bag for us here

 

[TSA321]

And you believe these figures? Pakistani's are as adept at avoiding paying tax, running a paralel economy as they do in Pakistan as in UK. Many, many moons ago I remember having this very discussion at university. Finally not getting anywhere I asked the students many rented from private landlords. Then asked them how many were Pakistani's? That settled that question.

That beared lala wearing a nondescript creased shalwar kameez will be playing with 100k as pocket change when he sends it throught the hawal transfers going as 'money exchange' or 'travel agents'.

I agree with this. If Pakistanis were earning the least money, the below simply couldn't be possible:

 

[Yankee-stani]

British Pakistanis (along with Bangladeshis) have the lowest rate of marrying out side of their own group, and the major reason for that is that both groups are mostly practising Muslims. This means marrying a native White Brit is out of the question for most of them. Most stick to marrying their own ethnicity or a Muslim from another ethnicity.
That's all I was saying.

I think most Brit Pakistanis dont even marry folks from other Muslim groups as other Muslims are probably much more Liberal than Pakistanis but in the US its sorta same but we are more scatter only big cities like NYC,LA,Houston and Chicago

Brown qualifies you as belonging to huge portion of the globe including India. Is Pakistan being reductive to 'brown'. And if that template is applied there are only Black, White, Brown, Yellow identities in the world. "Pakistan" does not even figure in it.
If being Muslim is the template then there are over 40 Muslim states. Nothing remotely Pakistani about that. The OP asks "future of Pakistani diaspora". Not "Muslim diaspora". If the religious template was applied then a gora Angrez converting to Muslim is more Pakistani then a first gen Pakistani Sikh or Ahmedi.

I actually hate when "Diaspora" folks use to term brown not all of us are f..reaking brown like pajeets granted we are not white either

 

[TSA321]

I think most Brit Pakistanis dont even marry folks from other Muslim groups as other Muslims are probably much more Liberal than Pakistanis but in the US its sorta same but we are more scatter only big cities like NYC,LA,Houston and Chicago

Not all British Pakistanis are super conservative or backwards, many increasingly are marrying Muslims from other ethnicities. But yes most still marry other Pakistanis.

Random case in point: the below girl I believe has a Pakistani father and North African mother:

 

[Longhorn]

My post is realistic

There is a old racist joke

Q- What do you call a black heart surgeon who has just been knighted by the queen

A- N*gger

Replace with P*ki it still stands


You will NEVER be them, the better you understand this, the better it will be for you

We may or we may not be.
The more salient and relevant point is that we cannot expect our children to be born, brought up and educated in Britain yet expect them to be culturally and nationalisticslly, Pakistani.
It isn't going to happen.
The choice is stark. You can choose to continue to bring forth generations in this country and know that they will be transformed into integrated and assimilated Brits, or if this is unacceptable then the only route you have is to take them to Pakistan and settle them there now.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Not all British Pakistanis are super conservative or backwards, many increasingly are marrying Muslims from other ethnicities. But yes most still marry other Pakistanis.

Random case in point: the below girl has a Pakistani father and North African mother:

She looks more white than P..ki or some light skin Middle Easterner nevertheless I think marrying out is still new and taboo even in the Brit Pak community, and of course not a broad brush but we gotta look from the dynamics most came from the villages

We may or we may not be.
The more salient and relevant point is that we cannot expect our children to be born, brought up and educated in Britain yet expect them to be culturally and nationalisticslly, Pakistani.
It isn't going to happen.
The choice is stark. You can choose to continue to bring forth generations in this country and know that they will be transformed into integrated and assimilated Brits, or if this is unacceptable then the only route you have is to take them to Pakistan and settle them there now.

Even then it has to be when they are super young like at least 2 years old if you want to send them back I would not advise after 5-6 years old thats when identity somehwhat develops of surroundings

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

We may or we may not be.
The more salient and relevant point is that we cannot expect our children to be born, brought up and educated in Britain yet expect them to be culturally and nationalisticslly, Pakistani.
It isn't going to happen.
The choice is stark. You can choose to continue to bring forth generations in this country and know that they will be transformed into integrated and assimilated Brits, or if this is unacceptable then the only route you have is to take them to Pakistan and settle them there now.

If right wing politics amongst the White English continues to increase then young Pakistanis will psychologically be forced to become nationalistic Pakistanis whether they want to or not.

 

[Yankee-stani]

If right wing politics amongst the White English continues to increase then young Pakistanis will psychologically be forced to become nationalistic Pakistanis whether they want to or not.

Hopefully it will lead to improve the country from pure stagnation and bring skills back but its just wishful thinking

 

[Longhorn]

Hopefully it will lead to improve the country from pure stagnation and bring skills back but its just wishful thinking

I was going to post a reply but you beat me to it.
You are correct. It is wishful thinking linked to a doomsday scenario.
The immigrants ( not just Pakistanis) who have settled and raised families in western countries are lost to the home countries for ever. Even now the younger generation would rather go to holiday in Spain and Turkey rather than Pakistan.
Britain is home, Pakistan is the country where their fathers and grandfathers came from.

 

[El Sidd]

If right wing politics amongst the White English continues to increase then young Pakistanis will psychologically be forced to become nationalistic Pakistanis whether they want to or not.

 

[Yankee-stani]

I was going to post a reply but you beat me to it.
You are correct. It is wishful thinking linked to a doomsday scenario.
The immigrants ( not just Pakistanis) who have settled and raised families in western countries are lost to the home countries for ever. Even now the younger generation would rather go to holiday in Spain and Turkey rather than Pakistan.
Britain is home, Pakistan is the country where their fathers and grandfathers came from.

I look at this way I will never really be an "American" in a true sense nor am I proud or like where its going either ,even though I was born in raised in the outer bourughs of NYC and in the northeast I would argue I am just of Pakistani extraction with a American Passport the problem I have with Pakistanis in Pakistan and Pakistanis abroad is they are confused bunch it does not help that Pakistan is stagnating thankfully its not a failed state but being stagnant does not make you proud what makes me proud is the what will it be in the future I want to tell my kids when I have them or grand kids that their country of their fore fathers isnt some backwards craphole but a respected nation on the global stage

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/from...stani-nationalism.668613/page-3#post-12377146

@Indus Pakistan @Longhorn you see I posted a thread about the stagnation of Pakistani identity yet no one seems to understand where I am going at I am not saying the show is bad or what but looking up to any foreigners does not do any good for us even if they are Muslim

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

a native White Bri

White Blue eyed Blondes

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I agree with this. If Pakistanis were earning the least money, the below simply couldn't be possible:

Go to any council estate. Not a Pakistani in sight. Go to Housing Assiciation homes. Very few Pakistani's. But full of Groids, Banglas and other riff raff. As your table show we Pakistani's have the highest house buying % in UK. Higher than British Whites even. We all know houses are the most expensive thing you will buy in your life. Our people buy houses. Groids buy trainers. Banglas buy fish.

Yet we are supposed to be the poorest? Wtf !

 

[Longhorn]

I look at this way I will never really be an "American" in a true sense nor am I proud or like where its going either ,even though I was born in raised in the outer bourughs of NYC and in the northeast I would argue I am just of Pakistani extraction with a American Passport the problem I have with Pakistanis in Pakistan and Pakistanis abroad is they are confused bunch it does not help that Pakistan is stagnating thankfully its not a failed state but being stagnant does not make you proud what makes me proud is the what will it be in the future I want to tell my kids when I have them or grand kids that their country of their fore fathers isnt some backwards craphole but a respected nation on the global stage

It's good to hear your perspective.
I think as a community, steeped as we are in village tradition and culture, we are afraid of what the future holds for our coming generations as regards culture and values.
What we are not willing to contemplate is that values and culture changes with time, geography, education, environmental influences.
I often think about when my father and his generation decided to emigrate to the UK what would have been crossing their mind?
All they were thinking of was £s. They never even considered the possibility of cultural change. They weren't equipped mentally or educationally to consider it. It never crossed their minds.
To be fair to a lot of them, most only wanted to come over here, earn enough money to set themselves up in Pakistan and live their lives out there. Basically how the Saudi Arabia model works. However, once here, the lure of a better living environment caused them to forget this and they started to send to Pakistan for wives and children to join them. As their children started to grow up they began to feel the challenges of bringing up children in a Western society while trying to preserve Eastern culture.
They battled the best they could but it was always going to be a losing battle.
To combat this they started to import spouses for their children from Pakistan, this worked for a while but gradually it started to cause unhappy marriages and downright rejection of the parents wishes as the culture gap became wider. I have seen the culture of our young people change to where they are marrying partners of their choice, albeit other Muslims but I can see a change coming here as well where young people are wanting to marry other nationalities. It can only be a matter of time. Realistically, it's to be expected.
In the past many first generation parents decided to relocate their families back to Pakistan. The result of which was that they went back, spent their money, couldn't adjust to the culture/ got fleeced by relatives, came back, still here.
We need to accept the reality of our situation. The more we force our children to live culturally schizophrenic lives the harder for them it'll be before the inevitable happens