The fate of minorities in Pakistan

[krash]

How many Pakistanis have been denied economic opportunities because of a lack of political connections or ability to pay bribes?

Nobody has ever been refused employment because they are of the wrong caste or are muhajir?

The same nonsensical argument again.

I'll simplify it. The minorities in Pakistan face oppression, subjugation, and injustice far more and in far more different ways than the common Pakistani does, i.e. A Muslim. While they face all of the issues that you and I do, there's a plethora more which you and I do not (examples already given). They face these issues exactly because they are non-Muslim. They face most of them primarily from and due to the apathy and bigotry of the Majority, i.e. you and I. It is not about the system not providing them justice, it is about you and I not only not given two-bits about them but also exploiting and subjugating them every chance we get. This is only then exacerbated by the defunct system. You and I cannot be thrown in a kiln and then have our murderer released and supported by thousands on baseless claims that you and I committed blasphemy. It is exactly these issues that I am raising, and exactly these issues which you are trying to brush aside because of the other issues which you and I share with them. It does not work that way. If the minorities faced the exact same issues and only the exact same issues in the exact same amount as the majority, I would not be calling out discrimination. If them being non-Muslim did not drastically add to their daily misery, I would not be calling out discrimination.

I take it the TTP suicide bombings on sunni masjids don't count? The attacks on Data dardar or the darbar of lal shabaz calandar? You realise the biggest victims of terrorism in this countrt were pukhtuns living in KPK where Funnily enough they are the ethnic and religious majority.

How can you possibly present that as an argument? The minorities get their temples/churches burned by regular Pakistani civilians without any retribution and you claim it to be the same as a fringe militant element committing terrorism while being fought a war against?

I take it you've never heard of women being kidnapped or raped in Pakistan? The motorway incident earlier this year doesn't count for example?

I take it you don't read posts carefully before responding to them. This has been answered in the very post you quoted.

How many shias felt nervous going into masjids during the last 20 years?

How many of them were nervous about it from their neighbors? How many of them were given the excuse; "Hey man, Sunni masjids burn too"?

ps: The Shia minority has faced their own gross discrimination due to the exact same processes that non-Muslims have. Just relatively less because they are still Muslim. It is ironic that you presented them as an example for the opposite.

Your last point is utterly farcical. Nobody who is a sunni Muslim in Pakistan has struggled to get justice from the criminal justice system?!

Explained above.

It's beyond ridiculous. Nobody is denying minorities face discrimination because of thier religion, but nearly everyone in Pakistan has faced discrimination for one reason or another.

Explained above.

A couple of years ago a sunni boy cut off his own hand fearing he'd be lynched for blasphemy. How different was his fear than anything a religious minority might face? Such acts happen because of the general lawless of the state.

No. That happened because you and I have forced that un-Islamic law on our minorities and refuse to even review it. You just gave an example of what minorities face every other day and wrote it off because one Sunni boy had to face it as well. If anything, it should have made it easier for you to realize your mistake.

I live a safe life in Britain not because British people are lovely tolerant hippy liberals, but because the writ of the state is enforced, the law is enforced.

The state and law in Britain did not descend from the heavens. It was made and enforced by its people. It was made for you, an outsider (not meant as an insult), by them before you even got there. And I don't know which cup of tea you've been drinking, but the religious intolerance in Britain cannot be compared to what pervades throughout Pakistan.

Similar issues (thankfully to a much lesser degree) happen in India too and we need to be vigilant as well.

I'm sorry but animals in both Pakistan and India, let alone Pakistani minorities, have it better than Indian minorities in India. What they have to face there every day is unimaginable in Pakistan. Furthermore, Pakistan passed the maxima on its religious intolerance more than a decade ago and has since been on a steady decline. I bark here to expedite that decline. India, OTOH, doesn't seem to be hitting its apex anytime soon.

Just because I am mad at my people does not mean I will let your back-handed comments slip in.

 

[Kabira]

No they're not. The majority of people in Pakistan aren't forcing themselves upon children. The majority of people don't take to the streets for whatever reason, the majority of people suffer the same way the religious minorities do. Just look at Kasur, it seems to be a hotspot for peado's.

You realise this happen on behalf of Pakistani state? LIke laws like allowed to convert to Islam but not to other religion with in Pakistan? And when PPP wanted to change that in Sindh, mullahs were up in arms so they had to give away to extremists.

Only when sikh girl was abducted last year did state/establishment toke notice because we all know why establishment love sikhs.

Exactly. Any one of us can go to the police without fear and expect justice from the courts. It is standard procedure. In Pakistan getting justice is an exception.

You don't know jack shit about Pakistan. Its not a secular country like UK where everyone is equal before the law. Here hindu can convert to Islam but not vice versa. So what do these extremists horney mullahs do? Abducts hindu girls and convert them to Islam to marry them. Must of girls are underage. State turn blind eye and cannot introduce law banning this practice because of fear from mullahs.

No offence but privileged majority have to deal with different kind of justice, their girls are not being abducted and converted to another religion. 80% of cases in courts are about land disputed.

 

[Sheikh Rauf]

Black life matters we see its a problem everywhere not only Pakistan, we are not the good people when it comes to racism but we definatily are not one of those wrost.

 

[Bil]

I condemn any such acts in Pakistan, without reservations, but, the fact is for any such act,
There are dozens if not hundreds of such acts in India, under far worse circumstances. In Pakistan, it is not organized,
In India,
it is organised terror of minorities.

If you are a decent man/woman, let's see you condemn the following, use your own words, but unashamed condemnation.

https://inspire99.com/ghar-wapsi-forced-mass-conversion-hinduism/

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ed-to-renounce-hubby/articleshow/60835201.cms

https://gems-usa.org/index.php/miss...performed-on-christian-believers-in-jharkhand

You do it to women and men, no-one is safe in India.

India does force conversion at another level.
bribes and threats everything goes.

Let's see the condemnations now.

@Del @PakistaniAtBahrain @GHALIB @Uguduwa

I literally, I mean literally laugh when I see Indian's advocate about minorities discrimination based on religious beliefs in Pakistan. This has been topic of discussion nth times in past, mirror has been shown to them, yet they've guts to talk on this topic, bravo !!!

Minorities face challenges in every corner in the world, however, the violent victimization and religious or visual discrimination which minorities have to face in India is at different level. Muslims are attacked due to their religion by mobs in India, they are forced to eat pork.

Accused Of Selling Beef, Assam Muslim Man Allegedly Forced To Eat Pork

A Muslim man was abused and heckled for allegedly selling beef in Assam's Biswanath district on Sunday. Police detained one person after a video of the the man on his knees in deep slush, begging to let him go, was widely shared on social media.

www.ndtv.com

Muslims are attacked and blamed for spreading COVID-19 in the country.

Blamed For Coronavirus Outbreak, Muslims In India Come Under Attack

In India, Muslims have been accused of deliberately spreading the virus. Many say they have faced increased discrimination, harassment and attacks.

www.npr.org

Indian is the country wherein Muslims are beaten and burnt alive only because of their religious beliefs.

Inside Delhi: beaten, lynched and burnt alive

After riots left more than 40 dead in the Indian capital, we visit homes and hospitals to examine the consequences of the religious hatred stoked by a nationalist government

www.theguardian.com

In India Muslims are killed only because if they eat meat in dinner platter. Show me this level of violence, abuse and torture against any religious groups in Pakistan.

Last but not the least, as I said before, will reiterate myself again, minorities are crushed and abuse. They always have to face biased and discrimination everywhere. Even countries like USA and Canada such incidents occurs frequently.

ICE is forcing Muslim detainees to eat pork, immigrant advocates allege

Muslims are being forced to eat pork at a US Immigration and Customs enforcement detention center in Miami, Florida, advocates alleged Wednesday.

www.businessinsider.com

There are huge racial disparities in how US police use force

Black people are more likely to be shot and killed by police than their white peers.

www.vox.com

Black Americans killed by police twice as likely to be unarmed as white people

Guardian analysis finds 102 people killed by police so far this year were unarmed, and that agencies are killing people at twice the rate calculated by US government

www.theguardian.com

Prejudice and Discrimination in Canada

Prejudice refers to an unsubstantiated, negative pre-judgment of individuals or groups, usually because of ethnicity, religion or race. Discrimination is the ex...

www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca

 

[Invicta]

Bhai, it's a known fact what Christian missionaries do in Pakistan and that Christian of Pakistan have - let it put it mildly (I don't want to get a warning) - "identity issues". I worked with a Christian Indian with connections to missionaries in Pakistan and what he told me was just disgusting. Our country has no honor in this world but it's our own fault.

I have connections to Christians missions in Pakistan, in fact I sponsor them monthly, so what are these so called "identity issues" you are calling about? Christians, Sikhs and Parsis I have met in Pakistan are more nationalistic and are serving their country with pride. I don't know which deluded honor is concerning you so much.

In your justification you think that banning halal meat, or head scarf is akin to abducting a minor and force fully marrying them under the pretext of conversion. I don't follow the logic, all decent countries (prosperous) are known to provide basic protections to their minorities - that is why they are prosperous, you have basic protections against criminal behaviour in Germany hence why you probably reside there.

A wrong line of argument is a wrong line of argument, it's black and white - I just don't follow your thought process,

 

[magra]

I'm sorry but animals in both Pakistan and India, let alone Pakistani minorities, have it better than Indian minorities in India. What they have to face there every day is unimaginable in Pakistan. Furthermore, Pakistan passed the maxima on its religious intolerance more than a decade ago and has since been on a steady decline. I bark here to expedite that decline. India, OTOH, doesn't seem to be hitting its apex anytime soon.

Just because I am mad at my people does not mean I will let your back-handed comments slip in.

I am not sure what made you take offence.
I am not aware if the religious intolerance in Pakistan is going up, down or staying at level.
In India, I agree it is going up these days.
However, given the size of the minority (which is not as insignificant) in India, it is not that oppressed or fearful as in Pakistan (using your own logic to your compatriots).
Plus, constitutionally at least, minorities have equal rights in India. Whereas, Pakistani constitution, in many areas, discriminates minorities (eg. you cannot reach the pinnacle posts - PM, Prez, Army Chief). I understand that given only 2% or so, it is not likely to reach such posts, but even the mathematical possibility is taken away.
In India, a Parsi became Army Chief although Parsis are less than 0.1% of population.

Again, I am not saying that we should brush off the issues in India just because things are probably not as worse (yet) as compared to Pak.

 

[peagle]

I'm sorry but animals in both Pakistan and India, let alone Pakistani minorities, have it better than Indian minorities in India. What they have to face there every day is unimaginable in Pakistan. Furthermore, Pakistan passed the maxima on its religious intolerance more than a decade ago and has since been on a steady decline. I bark here to expedite that decline. India, OTOH, doesn't seem to be hitting its apex anytime soon.

Do you honestly believe the minorities in Pakistan are treated worse than in India?

 

[313ghazi]

The same nonsensical argument again.

I'll simplify it. The minorities in Pakistan face oppression, subjugation, and injustice far more and in far more different ways than the common Pakistani does, i.e. A Muslim. While they face all of the issues that you and I do, there's a plethora more which you and I do not (examples already given). They face these issues exactly because they are non-Muslim. They face most of them primarily from and due to the apathy and bigotry of the Majority, i.e. you and I. It is not about the system not providing them justice, it is about you and I not only not given two-bits about them but also exploiting and subjugating them every chance we get. This is only then exacerbated by the defunct system. You and I cannot be thrown in a kiln and then have our murderer released and supported by thousands on baseless claims that you and I committed blasphemy. It is exactly these issues that I am raising, and exactly these issues which you are trying to brush aside because of the other issues which you and I share with them. It does not work that way. If the minorities faced the exact same issues and only the exact same issues in the exact same amount as the majority, I would not be calling out discrimination. If them being non-Muslim did not drastically add to their daily misery, I would not be calling out discrimination.



How can you possibly present that as an argument? The minorities get their temples/churches burned by regular Pakistani civilians without any retribution and you claim it to be the same as a fringe militant element committing terrorism while being fought a war against?



I take it you don't read posts carefully before responding to them. This has been answered in the very post you quoted.



How many of them were nervous about it from their neighbors? How many of them were given the excuse; "Hey man, Sunni masjids burn too"?

ps: The Shia minority has faced their own gross discrimination due to the exact same processes that non-Muslims have. Just relatively less because they are still Muslim. It is ironic that you presented them as an example for the opposite.



Explained above.



Explained above.



No. That happened because you and I have forced that un-Islamic law on our minorities and refuse to even review it. You just gave an example of what minorities face every other day and wrote it off because one Sunni boy had to face it as well. If anything, it should have made it easier for you to realize your mistake.



The state and law in Britain did not descend from the heavens. It was made and enforced by its people. It was made for you, an outsider (not meant as an insult), by them before you even got there. And I don't know which cup of tea you've been drinking, but the religious intolerance in Britain cannot be compared to what pervades throughout Pakistan.



I'm sorry but animals in both Pakistan and India, let alone Pakistani minorities, have it better than Indian minorities in India. What they have to face there every day is unimaginable in Pakistan. Furthermore, Pakistan passed the maxima on its religious intolerance more than a decade ago and has since been on a steady decline. I bark here to expedite that decline. India, OTOH, doesn't seem to be hitting its apex anytime soon.

Just because I am mad at my people does not mean I will let your back-handed comments slip in.

You realise this happen on behalf of Pakistani state? LIke laws like allowed to convert to Islam but not to other religion with in Pakistan? And when PPP wanted to change that in Sindh, mullahs were up in arms so they had to give away to extremists.

Only when sikh girl was abducted last year did state/establishment toke notice because we all know why establishment love sikhs.


You don't know jack shit about Pakistan. Its not a secular country like UK where everyone is equal before the law. Here hindu can convert to Islam but not vice versa. So what do these extremists horney mullahs do? Abducts hindu girls and convert them to Islam to marry them. Must of girls are underage. State turn blind eye and cannot introduce law banning this practice because of fear from mullahs.

No offence but privileged majority have to deal with different kind of justice, their girls are not being abducted and converted to another religion. 80% of cases in courts are about land disputed.

I don't know why you people suffer from such intense self loathing. Is it a mental illness? You're willing to do and say anything other than accept that the state of Pakistan and all the institutes associated with the law in Pakistan are to blame for persecution of minorities. The people of Pakistan are not to blame. Individuals who support bigotry and commit excesses against people, exist in all societies.

People like me have no responsibility in this. If you two as individuals are responsible for either the direct persecution of religious minorities, or through negligence of duties on behalf of the state of Pakistan, then you should clarify your point. Otherwise you should both shut up and stop blaming common people for the failures of the state.

@krash

I whole heartedly agree with this statement;

The minorities in Pakistan face oppression, subjugation, and injustice far more and in far more different ways than the common Pakistani does, i.e. A Muslim. While they face all of the issues that you and I do, there's a plethora more which you and I do not (examples already given).

I completely disagree with this one;

They face most of them primarily from and due to the apathy and bigotry of the Majority, i.e. you and I. It is not about the system not providing them justice, it is about you and I not only not given two-bits about them but also exploiting and subjugating them every chance we get.

I have never exploited anyone or subjugated them, regardless of race, religious or any other identity. If you have - that's on you. I lay the failure purely at the feet of the state of Pakistan, at it's lawmakers, it's judicary and it's law enforcement officials.

They as individuals and as institutions have failed to provide justice and legal protection to all Pakistani's, including religious minorities.

Lets take the famous case of Asia Bibi. The SCP actually wrote a detailed public judgement about it. The police registered a case against her than wouldn't withstand criticism in a village panjayat of pendu's. Two courts in Pakistan (or was it three) failed to throw the case out, despite the forced statements and the mismatches in accounts (all of which were on record). The SCP finally did the right thing, likely under pressure from the government - but ultimately failed to hold anyone to account for the farce that took away that womans life for over a decade.

What's your local chaiwalla got to do with that? Even if he is a foaming at the mouth rabid extremist? Who has the responsbility to enforce the writ of the state? The local mochi and darzi? The hate-filled fat aunties in their drawing rooms, or the police, judges and politicians?

 

[My-Analogous]

That is a garbage excuse.

The atrocities being committed on these minorities are by the "majority". You do not get to sit back, raise your hands and go "hey man, I don't get no justice either". The society itself is the culprit and your attitudes are the reason.

Nothing stops the "majority" from going rabid, taking to the streets, burning every thing down, and asking for the death of the same minorities for a law which is un-Islamic and inhumane. But "hey man, what can we do?"

This is not garbage think. In Pakistan we definitely need to upgrade our Justice system. Even our PM failed to get desire Justice in Senate election. All cases which having hard evidence, out Justice system give them clean chit. For Example, Ayyan Ali, Uzair Baloch, Talha case, Shahzab Khan, Naqeebullah Case and many more. This is the problem of our system and we need to correct it. Please undo negative ratting.
@The Eagle and all other PDF Moderator please review this.

 

[peagle]

I am not sure what made you take offence.
I am not aware if the religious intolerance in Pakistan is going up, down or staying at level.
In India, I agree it is going up these days.
However, given the size of the minority (which is not as insignificant) in India, it is not that oppressed or fearful as in Pakistan (using your own logic to your compatriots).
Plus, constitutionally at least, minorities have equal rights in India. Whereas, Pakistani constitution, in many areas, discriminates minorities (eg. you cannot reach the pinnacle posts - PM, Prez, Army Chief). I understand that given only 2% or so, it is not likely to reach such posts, but even the mathematical possibility is taken away.
In India, a Parsi became Army Chief although Parsis are less than 0.1% of population.

Again, I am not saying that we should brush off the issues in India just because things are probably not as worse (yet) as compared to Pak.

You Indians seriously live in your fantasies, all I hear is statements about minorities in Pakistan,
nothing but stupid empty statements, no facts, no valid arguments,
nothing but stupid empty irrelevant statements.
discrimination exists, but it is not persecution nor is it oppression.

In India, it is persecution and oppression.

In Pakistan, a minority woman has 3 votes and a minority man has 2 votes.
The minorities have exactly the same and equal rights as any other citizen, except for being the Prime Minister and President, no other barrier. That comes from having a state religion. I personally disagree with that, but it cannot be used to signify a complete lack of rights that's ridiculous.

In India, there is no much legislation that prohibits their freedom of religion and restricts their human rights. cow protection laws affect them, the new citizenship laws discriminate against them. And so many other laws. Such laws do not exist in Pakistan

India has reservations for different things for many groups, but not for Muslims, they make up nearly 15% of the population but only make up a mere 4 % of the members in all legislative assemblies, never more. Their level of employment in government jobs hovers around 1-5%, that's is shameful.

In Pakistan, the government has a policy to work towards a 5% employment share for minorities, which's more than their share of the population.

The size has nothing to do with it, the amount of persecution and oppression in India is insane even comparative to their size.
The fact is there is a difference between discrimination and persecution, in India, they is mass persecution of minorities. There is no doubt unless you live in coockkoo land.
I find it shocking you Indians even defend such a stark reality. Most do not even condemn acts of persecution, just shameful.

 

[Mujahid Memon]

The minorities get their temples/churches burned by regular Pakistani civilians without any retribution

If that is the case then I would assume that majority of the people I have known or interacted from my childhood till date are not "Regular Pakistani Civilians"

 

[magra]

In Pakistan, a minority woman has 3 votes and a minority man has 2 votes.
The minorities have exactly the same and equal rights as any other citizen, except for being the Prime Minister and President, no other barrier. That comes from having a state religion. I personally disagree with that, but it cannot be used to signify a complete lack of rights that's ridiculous.

It is good if minorities are allowed more votes compared to majority. Given the very low percentage of minorites, this will likely help them get some representation.
Good that you are saying that you do not agree with the policy of constitutional discrimination on PM, Prez post.

In India, there is no much legislation that prohibits their freedom of religion and restricts their human rights. cow protection laws affect them, the new citizenship laws discriminate against them. And so many other laws. Such laws do not exist in Pakistan

Which law restricts freedom of religion or human rights?
There are certain cow protection laws and that apply to all Indians, not just to muslims.
I dont agree with the new citizenship laws, although they do not directly affect Indian citizens, but only those who come into India as refugees. Anyways, these laws are currently on hold.

India has reservations for different things for many groups, but not for Muslims,

Historically, reservation was meant only for backward castes who were subjugated for hundreds of years. This reservation was supposed to be for 10 years and then reviewed and removed. But political considerations never allowed a review of these reservation laws. Upper caste poor Hindus are also aggrieved by these reservation policies.

they make up nearly 15% of the population but only make up a mere 4 % of the members in all legislative assemblies, never more.

This is because of first past the post system style of elections (which we inherited from British). I think having 15% reservation for minorities in assemblies would help.

Their level of employment in government jobs hovers around 1-5%, that's is shameful.

Jobs should remain merit based. Muslims in general have not invested that much in education, due to which they have lagged behind in job sector.

In India, they is mass persecution of minorities. There is no doubt unless you live in coockkoo land.
I find it shocking you Indians even defend such a stark reality. Most do not even condemn acts of persecution, just shameful.

I would say that there is a certain intolerance and apathy from govt and some suspicion from general population. There are individual cases of persecution too, but I would not say there is a mass persecution.
But I would let @jamahir talk about that and correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Gilljutt]

Has the Karak Temple been rebuilt yet? I've heard no new about it since January.

 

[peagle]

First, I want to genuinely thank you for a decent proper reply.

Which law restricts freedom of religion or human rights?
There are certain cow protection laws and that apply to all Indians, not just to muslims.
I dont agree with the new citizenship laws, although they do not directly affect Indian citizens, but only those who come into India as refugees. Anyways, these laws are currently on hold.

You see if a law is passed to cater to the religious belief of the majority, but those sentiments are not held by the minority then it is very discriminatory. Because the minority is being forced to observed the belief system of the majority. It would be wrong under any system, but it is especially wrong in a secular country.
If a law takes into account a person's religion to award citizenship or a special right to anyone, that is highly discriminatory. These laws do affect the Indian citizens because the citizen is being classed as a second-class citizen if he/she is not a Hindu because a Hindu immigrant is afforded a special position, therefore being a Hindu is held as higher status. So as a Muslim or Christian, you hold less value. To add to that, a Hindu citizen will not have to worry about proving their right to be an Indian citizen because even if they cant provide documentary evidence, they by virtue of being a Hindu are protected, but a minority member is under threat because they must prove if required that they are Indian citizens with documentary evidence. That's not right, because it creates two classes of citizens, Hindus, Sikh, others as higher status vs Muslims as lower legal status.

Historically, reservation was meant only for backward castes who were subjugated for hundreds of years. This reservation was supposed to be for 10 years and then reviewed and removed. But political considerations never allowed a review of these reservation laws. Upper caste poor Hindus are also aggrieved by these reservation policies.

I do understand the reasons behind the system, and in all honesty, I agree because it is a good system, for India and for society. But, that's not at discussion here. We are discussing whether it is discriminatory or not. If the reservation system caters to one community because of their backwardness, but it ignores other community's backwardness then it is a very unfair system. That's the issue, either something is fair or unfair, no matter what the noble thinking behind it. in this case, it is unfair and discriminatory.

This is because of first past the post system style of elections (which we inherited from British). I think having 15% reservation for minorities in assemblies would help.

Again, first past the post could be part of the problem, but it is not the major problem. and, if the issue is already known, and it is, then it should have been remedied long ago. Just like the reservation system was introduced to cater to some communities, something should have been done for Muslims too. But it goes much deeper, the lack of Muslim representation in legislative assemblies stems from deep root prejudice that refuses to view Muslims as equals. Even in the Rajya Sabha, where the choice is essentially made by the political parties so the first past the post system plays no role, the Muslim representation on average is around 4-5% mark, same as other assemblies for 70 years. The problem is a lot deeper.

In the Lok Sabha, which's the lower house of the Indian parliament, there is 23% representation for backward classes, so they have been accommodated there too, so should the Muslims, because clearly, they need help.
To make matter worse the reservations for the backward classes negatively affects Muslims, because the seats allocated under this system tend to have a higher percentage of Muslim voters, but because of this system, it limits the voice of a Muslim voter. In a seat with a higher percentage of Muslim voters, a Muslim candidate would have a higher chance of winning. So providing extra rights to one backward community negatively affects the Muslims of India.

There was an in-depth article on this topic, but, I'm unable to find it right now, I will try to find it and post it later.

Jobs should remain merit based. Muslims in general have not invested that much in education, due to which they have lagged behind in job sector.

This goes back to the reservation issue, it is unfair to look after the interest of one community and ignore the backwardness of another, and adding insult to injury by blaming them. It would be fair if India had no positive action programs, the fact they exist only for some and not for others, and the others always seem to be Muslims, is very discriminatory.
There have been at least two reports that I know of, who have looked into the backwardness of Muslims, but nothing has been done over the decades.

I would say that there is a certain intolerance and apathy from govt and some suspicion from general population. There are individual cases of persecution too, but I would not say there is a mass persecution.
But I would let @jamahir talk about that and correct me if I am wrong.

In days gone by, before social media and mass media, the above statement would hold water because very little got out, right now, so much is known and publicly available, combined with the above issues, the treatment of minorities in India, especially Muslims is so far worse than discrimination that it is naked oppression and persecution.

I honestly get shocked why it is not been recognized by the majority, Hindu community, some do, but most don't. I have seen the arguments in front of my face, with my friends, I do not get involved because sitting with them, I see it as it is for them to sort out and I do not wish to dirty our friendships. But it is wrong. I hope India finds a way before it is too late.
Pakistan has been there, and it was never as bad as made out, but Pakistan has been coming out of minority issues, there are still some issues left, but they are on the right path, although, still some way to go. For me, my Pakistaniat is not complete unless we have an ideal society for our minorities, it cannot put it simpler than that.

India has gone so far down the path I fear it might already be too late, but I am hopeful.

 

[peagle]

I wanted to share this here for few reasons.

1. What a woman, dedicated, loyal and strong.
2. The system is weak but not broken, under the 1995 disability act she was able to get her husband's salary reinstated due to disability, we don't have such a right in the UK, they have to get on benefits. It took time, but the system delivered > we have to fight for things in the UK as well. My English neighbour died of cancer-related illness just 2 months ago, the system let him down badly, because I know how much effort we had to make to help him, over past few years and the weeks leading up to his death.
Proper fair evaluation is important.
3. They are a Hindu family, obviously going through tough times, I do not see persecution or discrimination, I see confident people, whom the system delivered their due rights as citizens of Pakistan. I have other examples from personal knowledge, but this is visual.

I am only tagging you guys so more people should hear positive stories.
@PakistaniandProud @Del @masterchief_mirza @313ghazi @TheSnakeEatingMarkhur @PakPrinciples @PAKISTANFOREVER @Iltutmish @Goritoes @TNT @iLION12345_1 @arjunk @Vortex @Vapnope @jamahir @khansaheeb @Enigma SIG @Mujahid @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Baibars_1260