The F-22 Mission in Afghanistan: Overkill or Realistic Training?

[MastanKhan]

Absolutely.......you were young as well...

Hi,

I was young once---a very long time ago---but I was never 'stupid'.

 

[Raider 21]

Hi,

I was young once---a very long time ago---but I was never 'stupid'.

Good to know. Cheers boss...

 

[CHI RULES]

If you cannot lock in track with insufficient aspect angle information, heading angle, airspeed & closure rate which is the case with most stealth jets, these can still be death-dotted 'from the top'. Heat seakers dont require a radar lock that's-why thermal suppression technology has been evolved. I am sure we can still nail the raptor. Passive RM are ineffective against raptor but active RM have a definite role. Highly active RM do not require a lock in track before launch but its risky without a FOF transponder.



Totally incorrect. It is the vice versa which is correct.

Madam thanks for clearance however Pakistan certainly have YLC-2 Chinese Radar with anti stealth capabilities and also perhaps Vera from past. However even Pak can detect NATO jets they are in no position to attack them. They have UN resolution for whole Afghan operation and also might is right phenomena also applies.

 

[Tps43]

Madam thanks for clearance however Pakistan certainly have YLC-2 Chinese Radar with anti stealth capabilities and also perhaps Vera from past. However even Pak can detect NATO jets they are in no position to attack them. They have UN resolution for whole Afghan operation and also might is right phenomena also applies.

I know YLC 2 system Inside out But I will reserve my words for now.

 

[CHI RULES]

I know YLC 2 system Inside out But I will reserve my words for now.

Perhaps u can explain what I have got from net about it's anti stealth capabilities, not the exact range.

 

[Tps43]

Perhaps u can explain what I have got from net about it's anti stealth capabilities, not the exact range.

There's difference of it's working and capabilities on paper and field.

 

[VCheng]

The F-22 will naturally allow its position to be visible to Pakistani radars.There’s a strict air corridor American and nato forces access in Pakistan. Announcing position is critical to keeping pact credible and trust to be maintained.

The F-22 can choose whether to make itself visible, and if so, at what range:


https://theaviationist.com/2013/09/19/f-22-f-4-intercept/

Earlier this year, Pentagon Press Secretary George Little, said that an IRIAF (Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force) F-4 Phantom combat plane attempted to intercept a U.S. MQ-1 drone flying in international airspace off Iran.

As we reported back then, one of the two F-4 Phantom jets came to about 16 miles from the UAV but broke off pursuit after they were broadcast a warning message by two American planes escorting the Predator.

The episode happened in March 2013, few months after a two Sukhoi Su-25 attack planes operated by the Pasdaran (informal name of the IRGC – the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution) attempted to shoot down an American MQ-1 flying a routine surveillance flight in international airspace some 16 miles off Iran, the interception of the unmanned aircraft failed. After this attempted interception the Pentagon decided to escort the drones involved in ISR (intelligence surveillance reconnaissance) missions with fighter jets (either F-18 Hornets with the CVW 9 embarked on the USS John C. Stennis whose Carrier Strike Group is currently in the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility or F-22 Raptors like those deployed to Al Dhafra in the UAE.

New details about the episode were recently disclosed by Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh who on Sept. 17 not only confirmed that the fighter jets providing HVAAE (High Value Air Asset Escort) were F-22 stealth fighters but also said that:

“He [the Raptor pilot] flew under their aircraft [the F-4s] to check out their weapons load without them knowing that he was there, and then pulled up on their left wing and then called them and said ‘you really ought to go home'”

If the episode went exactly as Welsh described it, it was something more similar to Maverick’s close encouter with Russian Mig-28s in Top Gun movie than a standard interception.

It would be interesting to know how the Raptor managed to remain stealth (did they use their radar? were they vectored by an AWACS? etc.) and why it was not the E-2 most probably providing Airborne Early Warning in the area to broadcast the message to persuade the F-4 to pursuit the drone before the Iranian Phantoms and the U.S. Raptors got too close in a potentially dangerous and tense situation?

Anyway the U.S. pilot achieved to scare the Iranian pilots off and save the drone. A happy ending worthy of an action movie.

 

[LeGenD]

@syed ali haider is absolutely correct.

While a stealthy aircraft is not completely invisible, it is virtually impossible to track, identify and shoot one down in real-time because the aircraft is designed in the manner that it absorbs and/or scatters radar beams. And this is just one aspect of stealth in F-22 Raptor.
Learn all about stealthy characteristics here: http://www.f22fighter.com/stealth.htm

If a radar system is picking up an F-22 Raptor, this detection is deliberate on the part of the F-22 Raptor in flight (defenses are lowered to a great extent). Behind-the-scenes agreement sort of thing.

 

[VCheng]

@syed ali haider is absolutely correct.

While a stealthy aircraft is not completely invisible, it is virtually impossible to track, identify and shoot one down in real-time because the aircraft is designed in the manner that it absorbs and/or scatters radar beams. And this is just one aspect of stealth in F-22 Raptor.
Learn all about stealthy characteristics here: http://www.f22fighter.com/stealth.htm

If a radar system is picking up an F-22 Raptor, this detection is deliberate on the part of the F-22 Raptor in flight (defenses are lowered to a great extent). Behind-the-scenes agreement sort of thing.

And as I said before, USAF will not reveal the degree of its stealth capability by using appropriate signal generators until it is necessary to be used. Let opposing forces think they can track the F-22 all they want, until it is hammer time.

 

[Trango Towers]

Attention Pakistanis
Take care of your nukes

They are not toys that we play with daily. Don't worry. Americans have lost nukes at least we haven't lost one have we

 

[Hellfire]

The F-22 can choose whether to make itself visible, and if so, at what range:


https://theaviationist.com/2013/09/19/f-22-f-4-intercept/

Earlier this year, Pentagon Press Secretary George Little, said that an IRIAF (Islamic Republic of Iran Air Force) F-4 Phantom combat plane attempted to intercept a U.S. MQ-1 drone flying in international airspace off Iran.

As we reported back then, one of the two F-4 Phantom jets came to about 16 miles from the UAV but broke off pursuit after they were broadcast a warning message by two American planes escorting the Predator.

The episode happened in March 2013, few months after a two Sukhoi Su-25 attack planes operated by the Pasdaran (informal name of the IRGC – the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution) attempted to shoot down an American MQ-1 flying a routine surveillance flight in international airspace some 16 miles off Iran, the interception of the unmanned aircraft failed. After this attempted interception the Pentagon decided to escort the drones involved in ISR (intelligence surveillance reconnaissance) missions with fighter jets (either F-18 Hornets with the CVW 9 embarked on the USS John C. Stennis whose Carrier Strike Group is currently in the U.S. 5th Fleet area of responsibility or F-22 Raptors like those deployed to Al Dhafra in the UAE.

New details about the episode were recently disclosed by Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh who on Sept. 17 not only confirmed that the fighter jets providing HVAAE (High Value Air Asset Escort) were F-22 stealth fighters but also said that:

“He [the Raptor pilot] flew under their aircraft [the F-4s] to check out their weapons load without them knowing that he was there, and then pulled up on their left wing and then called them and said ‘you really ought to go home'”

If the episode went exactly as Welsh described it, it was something more similar to Maverick’s close encouter with Russian Mig-28s in Top Gun movie than a standard interception.

It would be interesting to know how the Raptor managed to remain stealth (did they use their radar? were they vectored by an AWACS? etc.) and why it was not the E-2 most probably providing Airborne Early Warning in the area to broadcast the message to persuade the F-4 to pursuit the drone before the Iranian Phantoms and the U.S. Raptors got too close in a potentially dangerous and tense situation?

Anyway the U.S. pilot achieved to scare the Iranian pilots off and save the drone. A happy ending worthy of an action movie.

Now why would you presume to actually teach people something? Don't trouble our resident experts. They have an audience to play to.

Ride your bike safely ...

And as I said before, USAF will not reveal the degree of its stealth capability by using appropriate signal generators until it is necessary to be used. Let opposing forces think they can track the F-22 all they want, until it is hammer time.

You seriously need a head check .. ... don't you know China has directed they are ahead of US?

 

[VCheng]

Now why would you presume to actually teach people something? Don't trouble our resident experts. They have an audience to play to.

Ride your bike safely ...




You seriously need a head check .. ... don't you know China has directed they are ahead of US?

What can I say? A teacher can only try to teach, but it is up to the student to learn or not.

Just you wait until the first F-22/F-35/AWACS controlled drone swarm is declassified after some operation or the other.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Is it like all other options have failed so that the USA has to put F-22s in Afganistan, which is at the heart of OBOR, to counter China/Russia axis????!??!! What's a about containing China via India, QUAD .etc ????

 

[Hammad ur Rehman]

PAF has flown with / against F-22s in many exercises & should be fully aware of its capabilities.

This F-22 mission could be prelude to future operations in our area. BE PREPARED

 

[LeGenD]

PAF has flown with / against F-22s in many exercises & should be fully aware of its capabilities.

This F-22 mission could be prelude to future operations in our area. BE PREPARED

No country is [fully aware] of the capabilities of an F-22 Raptor and neither the full extent of its capabilities will be disclosed to the public anytime soon; exercises do not disclose much in this regard because the defenses of an F-22 Raptor are [deliberately] compromised in them and the pilots are instructed to perform a set of maneuvers in advance with the intent to learn and/or exchange information.

In a true combat situation, the role of an F-22 Raptor is not to engage in a dogfight and/or come within the striking range of an opponent but to execute "first-look, first-kill" mission protocol. To accomplish this mission protocol, F-22 Raptor is equipped with the most state-of-the-art sensor systems and avionics in American inventory.

Some eye-popping details for the naive and ignorant:

IAS Hierarchical Functional Design

Behind this first-look, first-kill capability is the F-22’s ability to establish superior situational awareness concerning target detection, location, identification, and lethality. The IAS provides the pilot situational awareness well Beyond Visual Range (BVR). Data fusion from multiple sensors is used to achieve longrange detection, high confidence BVR-Identification (BVRID) and highly accurate target tracking for BVR weapons employment and/or threat avoidance. The IAS directly contributes to increased survivability by providing threat warning and countermeasures against threat systems. This first-look, first-kill requirement depends on the ability to collect data from multiple onboard sensors, to develop a highly accurate track file on enemy targets, and to do so before the F-22 is detected by enemy sensors. Each target track file is continually and automatically updated without pilot intervention. Targets receive increasingly tighter tracking accuracies as they penetrate a series of tactical engagement boundaries surrounding the F-22 as shown in Figure 32.1. From outermost inward, these “globes” are called (1) Situation Awareness Initial Track/ID, (2) Engage/Avoid Decision, (3) BVRID Initial AMRAAM Launch, (4) Initial Threat Missile Launch, and (5) Threat Missile Lethal Envelope. The globe boundary concept, inherent in the tactical software design, supports both (1) efficient sensor usage and (2) automated sensor tasking. It provides the pilot adequate time to make tactical decisions (such as engage, avoid, commit weapons, or expend countermeasures) instead of controlling sensors.

Integrated Avionics Architecture

The F-22 avionics architecture is characterized as a common, modular, highly integrated system. These characteristics result in increased performance, reliability, availability, and affordability. It is the first fully integrated avionics system in U.S. military aircraft, supplanting the federated architectures of the past. The F-22 does not employ traditional, single-function “black boxes” to perform basic avionics functions such as navigation, communications, threat warning, and fire control. Instead, these functions are implemented with common, programmable modules which are software-configured to process many different functions. This architecture not only allows increased mission effectiveness, but also allows significant flexibility in basic avionics design through: robust, fault-tolerant reconfiguration capabilities, higher reliability, easier supportability, higher availability, lower weight, extended growth capability, and lower acquisition and life cycle cost.

APG-77 Radar

APG-77 Radar The F-22’s APG-77 radar is an advanced multimode, multitarget interleaved search/track, all-weather, fire control radar. Developed by Northrop Grumman, it incorporates the following design features: Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA), low observability (LO), electronic counter-countermeasures (ECCM), and low probability of intercept (LPI). These features give the F-22 radar a major leap in combat capability. The main array, mounted in the nose radome, is composed of hundreds of Transmit/Receive (T/R) modules. Beam switching is performed by controlling each T/R module’s phase characteristics, thus accomplishing a summed beam pattern of all T/R modules. These T/R modules are designed to operate for over 16,000 hours failure-free. The T/R module application features an extremely faulttolerant design, where the system can lose numerous T/R modules before minimum required performance is affected. The system can continue to effectively operate with loss of even more T/R modules, however at reduced transmit power levels.

Electronic Warfare (EW)

The EW subsystem provides Radar Warning (RW), Missile Launch Detection (MLD), and chaff and flare countermeasures. RW was developed jointly by Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control, Lockheed Sanders, and LMTAS. It provides airborne and ground-based radar emitter detection, tracking, identification, and location to the mission software system for integrated target tracking. The Missile Launch Detector also provides a passive IR capability to detect, declare, track, and report missile launches to mission software. The defensive countermeasures function is responsible for timing and deploying chaff and flares. Deployment of countermeasures is programmable for fully automatic, semiautomatic, or manual.

Learn more from here: http://www.davi.ws/avionics/TheAvionicsHandbook_Cap_32.pdf

Countering an F-22 Raptor in a combat situation seems to be an exciting prospect in theory but don't get your hopes too high.