The F-16: Then and Now

[Raider 21]

Hi,

And exactly for that reason those F16 pilots who went to test the JH7 aircraft rejected it because it could not do the G's that they get their hard ons on---.

It is the same problem here in the U S as well---all the pilots coming out of the academy wanted to be flying the F16's or going to the F15's or F18's---.

Well---someone had to fly those A10's and B52's as well---and after training and flying those aircraft---they get to love them and don't want to fly anything else---.

Show---strut pomp and preening like a peacock is PAF's pilot's nature---the only problem he has is that he cannot kiss himself other than on a mirror.

The USAF has a macro system where there are multiple platforms to pick on and it is based on preferences and requirements. PAF has the RAF style of training, where everything is predominately done in terms of training pilots to be in the fast-jet community, those who don't make the cut for various reasons are moved to transport aircraft, helicopters or if those have done their IP courses, then some end up as long term instructors at the Academy.

There are a lot of PAF pilots who hated the F-16 (dad still flying F-16s since 1986 and talks fondly of F-6s, and for me I found the F-16 to be the ultimate thing after I had my time on it), as they were in too much love with their F-6s and F-86s. Same case with USMC aviators, they loved their A-6s in the VMFA(AW) squadrons when they were replaced by F/A-18s in the all-weather role.

Show--strut pomp and preening like a peacock shit-like behaviour doesn't exist in PAF only---but in your USAF, USN, USMC, RAF, Armee de l'air....and other air arms as well.

forget every thing kids this in niether 1965 nor its 1980s and nor will PAF ever evr will get anything from USA with regards to Latest weapons or air fighting technology but same is opposite in Indias case and not just from USA but from France , Germany , Japan , Israel and russia also and there is nothing Pakistani Patriots can do about it

now the latest Blk is F17 70/72 which we have already made a deal with USA & TATA and getting some 8-12 full squads but still SAAB trying to sabotage it

as for the latest F16 Blk 70/72 it got latest gen turbofan with next gen low but wider landing gear with new gen digital controls and all avionics and minutrised and combined GaN AESA based EW+ECM+Internal Jamers suits & GaN AESA based radar all controlled by a 100-150 TERRABYTE DATABUS with a F-35 inspired next gen HOBS asisted by multiple ISRT's and JHMCS & HMD and internal sniper pod and a pair of composite CFT with inbuilt IFR probe

Indian government is still lost whether they want the F-16 or not......but well, I guess they must know what they're doing.....over 11 years in taking a decision to select a fighter jet against a country that they berate so easily but they lose their minds when they order 13 second hand F-16s.

 

[GURU DUTT]

well indiangovermnet has already made its mind its going for F16s only as single engine MRCA, Rafale as twin engine MRCA , FGFA as its Stealth heavy wieght and MKI/Super sukhoi as mainstay fighter while LCA MK1A is its light wieght (point defence /internal air policing /goal keeper-fighter)

 

[Raider 21]

There is no way to compare training. PAF did have an upper hand during '65 and '71 in terms of equipment.

Training was done in the RAF standards at the Academy followed by USAF standards training when converting jet pilots into fighter pilots. That was the case for PAF. For the IAF, their Academy standards and early stages of aviation cadet training was just as the same as the RAF system and standards.....but the influx of Russian training brought their standards down significantly. Check the pilot training standards for the Indian naval aviators and compare them with IAF pilots.....there's a remarkable difference between the two as the naval aviators are American trained and the IAF pilots are still in a restricted centralized zone of training ( which could have changed lately since the introduction of the Hawk 132, as that is a superb aircraft ).

 

[GURU DUTT]

They should add the Super Hornet, F-35, T-50 PAKFA, MiG-35, Eurofighter and Gripen as well. It will be a logistical dream of a nightmare. And not to mention the MiG-28s....

so now pakistani fanboys and arm chair generals will decide what shpould IAF buy and how they should perpair for a air war with PAF ... OK OK thanks i will surely send your inputs to MOD of india myself

 

[Windjammer]

There is no way to compare training. PAF did have an upper hand during '65 and '71 in terms of equipment.

The best thing PAF had in 1971 was a single squadron of assorted Mirage-III types compared to ten squadrons of MiG-21s fielded by the IAF.....majority of PAF fleet consisted of Korean era F-86 Sabres....

 

[Raider 21]

so now pakistani fanboys and arm chair generals will decide what shpould IAF buy and how they should perpair for a air war with PAF ... OK OK thanks i will surely send your inputs to MOD of india myself

I am glad to be of assistance.....and I strongly believe you will send your inputs to MOD of India yourself. Cheers bud...

 

[Windjammer]

@Knuckles , please don't waste your time with our esteemed Guru bahi, he copy pastes same page in every thread....that is when he returns after his breaks.

 

[Raider 21]

so what will i get in return of my services ... i guess gilgit & balistan would be OK for starting =D

A rating on this forum....

 

[Alphacharlie]

Lets me ---throw some light for fan boys---

9 SQNs of mig21 were in east, Only 1 mig 21 sqn was based in west adampur...

Compare sortie rate of IAF VS PAF...then make a statement on attrition ratio. How much support PAF gave to PN ?

Pakistan gave access for U2 Missions and Yanks Flooded AID, Military AID.

Yanks gave Best of Missiles & Radars to Pakistan, Siderwinder had no challenge from Ruski till R27 Arrived that too in 80s.

IAF in 65 war had only 1 P40 Radar that too in Amritsar which any under principle of Radio waves was vector guided in One direction that too at a Max for 6-8 hours at Peak capacity --- You run a radar on peak capacity Burns its Cathode Ray Tube(s) & It needed Heavy Servicing...making it inoperable for Days.

1971 Saw better status 7 radars in West for , that too inferior P Series from Russia. PAF Had best of Macroini North America & GE Radars Systems AN/FPS series. Excluding Pechora Series for SAM roles.

and the Jordanins gives 1/2SQN of F104 to Aid their Friend. This Bird was smashed by Mig21. Only 1sqn Mig21 did this Damage---

K13 Missile used by IAF was a Fluke as compared to AIM 9 sidewinder, most of confirmed kills by IAF were based on Cannon shots....

Yanks were doing air recee by P2s Neptunes/ P3 A Orions & giving all Electronic & Radar Intel to PAF, PN.

People who gloat in Glory Never Speak of above or imitations of IAF....
Today there are 4 Sats doing 24 hrs monitoring -- You cant even touch

Lets not repeat Zia`s statement, we are stronger because we eat Meat and they Daal---- Hiding Real History Under Carpet is not Appreciated ?!!

 

[CHACHA"G"]

@MastanKhan , I had enough of fan boys ............. JF-17 is a blessing but no matter what goodies we load on (in) this bird , It is still a Light (L.....I....G....H....T) bird.
People having hard time to understand that simple fact, If we look at early reports about this bird that suggests that it is here to replace F-6 , A-5 and F-7s with better and advance tech and that also made in Pakistan and very cost effective.
JF-17 is here to bring down the number (gap) difference and to deal with IAF's MIGs , Jigs , M2K, that's it............
Our Mirages are getting older and older , F-16s we have already have many different life cycle upgrades (for how long we can keep doing that?) and they are Sanction prone.
Now we have 2 great Issues in our hand , IAF's Number advantage and TECH advantage and both are growing every decade.
And if you look at PAF , We not only need Heavy Bird but we also need Medium Bird too. We are already 15+ years late on both birds .
5th Gen bird is not a joke , its not a "Gider-Singi" against all problems PAF face , And we can not have 200+ 5th Gen birds , We need decent seize Medium and Heavy fleet too.............
I m honestly waiting for to see F16s , F-18s in IAF, that will be a turning point for Pakistan , but after wasting 4 decades......

 

[GURU DUTT]

Lets throw some light for fan boys---

9 SQNs of mig21 were in east
Only 1 mig 21 sqn was based in west adampur...

Compare sortie rate of IAF VS PAF...then make a statement on attrition ratio.

Yanks gave Best of Missiles and Radars to Pakistan, Siderwinder had no challenge from Ruski till R27 Arrived that too in 80s

IAF in 65 war had only 1 L-Band Radar that too in Amritsar which any under principle of Radio waves was vector guided in One direction that too at a Max for 6-8 hours. It needed Heavy Servicing...

1971 Saw better status 7 radars in West, that too P Series from Russia. PAF Had best of Macroini North America & GE Radars Systems AN/FPS series

and the Jordanins gives 1/2SQN of F104 to Aid their Friend. This Bird was smashed by Mig21. Only 1sqn GAVE Damage....

K13 Missile used by IAF was a Fluke as compared to AIM 9 sidewinder, most of confirmed kills by IAF were based on Cannon shots....

Yanks were doing air recee by P2s Neptunes/ P3 A Orions & giving all Electronic & Radar Intel to PAF, PN.

People who gloat in Glory Never Speak of aboveor imitations of IAF....

Lets not repeat Zia`s statement we are stronger because we eat Meat and they Daal.

exactly my point what all pakistani internet patriot fanboys feel so proud about 1965 air war

but forget to add or aknowledge the fact is they were able to put up that massive surprise all

due to US recce teams helping them

and with US made weapons

and US made Sabre jets

with US training with help of US experts

but now since US policy is shifted to India as its main ally in asia and india getting the latest F16 Blk 70/72 and F35 in future and maybe the 6th gen stealth fighter from USA i wonder what will PAF do about it

 

[CriticalThought]

exactly my point what all pakistani internet patriot fanboys feel so proud about 1965 air war

but forget to add or aknowledge the fact is they were able to put up that massive surprise all

due to US recce teams helping them

and with US made weapons

and US made Sabre jets

with US training with help of US experts

but now since US policy is shifted to India as its main ally in asia and india getting the latest F16 Blk 70/72 and F35 in future and maybe the 6th gen stealth fighter from USA i wonder what will PAF do about it

First of all, thank you for acknowledging the superiority of PAF against many times larger enemy. If you weren't prepared, its because of your useless rulers. Too bad for you.

Now you think having Americans at your side will help your cause. This is where you are seriously mistaken my friend. Put a rookie on an F-16 and he is a flying hazard. Your pilots aren't going to transform into expert F-16 topguns overnight.

What the PAF will do? Why it will show you exactly how the Americans do it, but with a Pakistani flavour to it. In other words, they will thrash you out of the skies like houseflies.

 

[GURU DUTT]

First of all, thank you for acknowledging the superiority of PAF against many times larger enemy. If you weren't prepared, its because of your useless rulers. Too bad for you.

Now you think having Americans at your side will help your cause. This is where you are seriously mistaken my friend. Put a rookie on an F-16 and he is a flying hazard. Your pilots aren't going to transform into expert F-16 topguns overnight.

What the PAF will do? Why it will show you exactly how the Americans do it, but with a Pakistani flavour to it. In other words, they will thrash you out of the skies like houseflies.

for get everything did your PAF get air superioty for rest of the air war after the initial surprose attack in 1965 ... anser is no and both ayub khan and ZAB had to run to tashkent for a shame ful uncondition withdrawl of pakistani forces and surrender to india and give back kargil , drass and batalick sectors(pakistan won in 1948) & rann of katch to india

now indians have been training in and against both israeli SUFA and singaporean Blk52 F16s in india and israel for last 10+ years so we know F16s in and out dont worry about us we already have made a complete road map and this is a air war bsed on Sattelite + ground support + DATALINK+ other AIR/AWACS backup support and some other extra awareness whose technical names i cant remmeber right now

and the pilot alo has many other technical suports like 5th gen avionics and EW suites and smart weapons systems which find and hunt down there targets o their own so pilot is just flying the fighter most of the job is done by the weapons and the ground teams in tandem ... correct your facts kiddo

 

[Windjammer]

Some history lessons for the weekend warriors....In December 1971, Five of the 25 Squadrons deployed by the IAF in west were MiG-21s while another three were operational in the Eastern sector....The IAF completed some 4000 sorties in the Western sector compared to 2840 for the PAF.... an airforce some three time size of the PAF....only did marginally better in the sortie rate.....the Jordanian F-104s arrived in the closing days of the war and played little or no part in the conflict.....despite making tall claims about shooting down 9 F-104s, the IAF could only show wrecks of one or two Starfighters in natural metal finish, where as Jordanian machines were in dessert camouflage.

 

[CriticalThought]

for get everything did your PAF get air superioty for rest of the air war after the initial surprose attack in 1965 ... anser is no and both ayub khan and ZAB had to run to tashkent for a shame ful uncondition withdrawl of pakistani forces and surrender to india and give back kargil , drass and batalick sectors(pakistan won in 1948) & rann of katch to india

now indians have been training in and against both israeli SUFA and singaporean Blk52 F16s in india and israel for last 10+ years so we know F16s in and out dont worry about us we already have made a complete road map and this is a air war bsed on Sattelite + ground support + DATALINK+ other AIR/AWACS backup support and some other extra awareness whose technical names i cant remmeber right now

and the pilot alo has many other technical suports like 5th gen avionics and EW suites and smart weapons systems which find and hunt down there targets o their own so pilot is just flying the fighter most of the job is done by the weapons and the ground teams in tandem ... correct your facts kiddo

Look, I don't intend to demean you in any way, but you have displayed an utter lack of understanding regarding aerial warfare. So you are not impressing anyone about IAF's prowess. What I am trying to say is there are better people to talk about IAF's capabilities and maybe you should leave this matter up to them.