The enemy and Pakistan Army

[Ticker]

No what I said isnt strange. Its strange that just because there isnt any other country with territorial disputes as much as India (debatable), that India is wrong. It is actually the reverse. India has bad neighbors and despite our best efforts in not pursuing territory, handing over territory etc for the sake of peace, we still get accused of being hegemonic.

BTW out of the 6 countries that have disputed borders with India, 5 out of them including China, want peace in the region. Only one out of those 6 is too loud and has an entirely distorted and untrue view of history. This doesnt affect India as much as it affects said country.

BTW the reason that India has so many divisions against Pakistan, is because of Pakistani aggression. In all the four wars that India has fought with Pakistan, it has ALWAYS been Pakistan that has thrown the first punch. Hence the deployments. You have only yourself to blame.

Please, get over this frivolity that India is always correct because India says so. India is not even a regional power that it probably espouses to be and has repeatedly lied to all its neighbours and the world at large. And this is historically proven fact.

India has always been the aggressor in all wars it fought against Pakistan. And I have proved it many times before with historical facts. Again - it is not going to change because India says so.

 

[illusion8]

Hahaha

well said,
its Pakistanis who only aim for minimum deterrence and our military structure reflects that in the kind of manpower and hardware. just enough to keep the South Asian bully away from the Western corner and only take the frustration at the smaller and minor states around it.

no matter how Indians want to spin it. Pakistan refused to accept the Indian hegemony even in the current times we are not letting Indians have a free ride in Afghanistan & their covert activities viz-a-viz Baloch insurgencies are going to fail once again

I don't get how Pakistan is stopping India from exercising it's influence in Afghanistan, we have a security treaty with Afghanistan secondly the US wants increased Indian influence in Afghanistan - it's India who is backing out from it owing to past and present status of other countries bad experiences with involvement in Afghanistan,

 

[Ticker]

India should have one-subcontinent doctrine/policy to swat all disputes under one big hammer stroke.

India doesn't have that big a hammer to squash others.

I don't want to repeat here, how I normally responds to such statements. ha ha ha

 

[Wickerman]

That's what you think - the facts I highlight state the reality. The sooner you guys wake up to the reality, the sooner South Asia will have peace - but for your rhetoric.

What you state is distorted history. I can agree that you have a distorted picture of history, and that effectively defines your identity as a Pakistani, but nothing more than that.

It doesnt really concern us much. We have relative peace in our borders, even the disputed ones compared to the border with Pakistan. We have a strong political set up. Putting aside the India Pakistan issue, generally speaking, the one who is politically correct is the one that will have political credibility. And we are the ones that are not only politically correct but factually as well. So if any country wants to disturb the peace in South Asia, then that would be Pakistan. Good luck with that. Because it will only end up being detrimental for you.

This is the crux of the matter.

With the nuclear standoff, actual military combat has become unthinkable and the conflict has moved to the covert and diplomatic levels. The huge deployments along the border are merely insurance.

Moreover, India (and the US) will engage third parties as proxies to do their fighting. Besides the TTP and BLA, I expect the new Afghan government and Northern Alliance-stocked military will be increasingly hostile towards Pakistan, egged on by India and the US.

The crux of the matter is not that. The crux of the matter is the falsity on which Pakistani identity is based. What I mean is, India is united based on the ideals of "Unity in diversity", "United we stand, divided we fall" etc., Pakistan is united based on their collective hatred for India and their collective fear of the non existent boogeman. Can you give me any solid evidence that India is using TTP and BLA etc etc to destabilize Pakistan? None. There is none. On the other hand it has been proven time and time again, even with your president accepting that there are anti-India forces at work in Pakistan.

Please, get over this frivolity that India is always correct because India says so. India is not even a regional power that it probably espouses to be and has repeatedly lied to all its neighbours and the world at large. And this is historically proven fact.

India has always been the aggressor in all wars it fought against Pakistan. And I have proved it many times before with historical facts. Again - it is not going to change because India says so.

No it is not because India says so. It is because, it is fact. The only one that needs to get over any frivolity is you. And what you said is historically proven fact only in Pakistan. For the rest of the world believes in actual facts, as we do, not delusions and paranoia.

 

[illusion8]

Please, get over this frivolity that India is always correct because India says so. India is not even a regional power that it probably espouses to be and has repeatedly lied to all its neighbours and the world at large. And this is historically proven fact.

India has always been the aggressor in all wars it fought against Pakistan. And I have proved it many times before with historical facts. Again - it is not going to change because India says so.

Any amount of twisting the facts by you will not change the truth, and we are way beyond a regional power so it doesn't matter what you say.

 

[Ticker]

The Afghans don't and that makes it disputed. The Durand line and the McMahon Line are both drawn up on similar principles. As for what the world agrees, don't make me laugh. What they think about Pakistan wouldn't make you laugh anyways.

What makes these things disputed is the overall world consensus and not a government which is lead by the Mayor of Kabul.

 

[Developereo]

but it was the usa which took out the baitullah mehsud......and many other TTP commanders.

US ignored Pak intel on him and others for the longest time. US only takes out TTP assets when they get compromised and go past their use-by date.

 

[Ticker]

The Afghans don't and that makes it disputed. The Durand line and the McMahon Line are both drawn up on similar principles. As for what the world agrees, don't make me laugh. What they think about Pakistan wouldn't make you laugh anyways.

The difference is that while McMohan Line is agreed as a dispute in the world fora, Durand Line has since long been accepted as the international border by the whole world - Mayor of Kabul's rhetoric notwithstanding.

 

[vsdoc]

OT: Develeper there is an Islamophobe thread I have started in Member's section.

Could you please come there and contribute?

It would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Ticker]

What you state is distorted history. I can agree that you have a distorted picture of history, and that effectively defines your identity as a Pakistani, but nothing more than that.

You can not challenge my identity as Pakistani, because it is engraved in the history since thousands of years. The cradle of IVC is held by Pakistan and therefore Pakistan is the scion of IVC.

Just because you Indians relate it with your Hindu religion does not make it your identity - because the religion and language of IVC has still not been deciphered.

Whereas, your identity is essentially your religion based ideology or mythology, Pakistan's identity is based on its land as well as its religion.

Which essentially raises the mother of all questions - what is Indian identity.

 

[Developereo]

The crux of the matter is not that. The crux of the matter is the falsity on which Pakistani identity is based. What I mean is, India is united based on the ideals of "Unity in diversity", "United we stand, divided we fall" etc., Pakistan is united based on their collective hatred for India and their collective fear of the non existent boogeman.

There are alternative interpretations of everything. The Indian "unity in diversity" has been maintained by the spectre of a Pakistani bogeyman. Of course Indians will deny it, but the Indian media has been obsessed by Pakistan phobia, which has now been spiced up with the flavor of the decade, viz. terrorism.

India is replete with ethnic, linguistic, religious and cultural fault lines, any and all of which can be exploited. Just because Pakistan has failed to do so does not mean it cannot be done. Any group of people can be conditioned into a conflict-oriented mindset, be it ethnic, religious or cultural. Any group.

Can you give me any solid evidence that India is using TTP and BLA etc etc to destabilize Pakistan? None. There is none.

What matters is that we know what we are dealing with. Convincing anyone else is futile, given the West's current love affair with India.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

NE:- It is all wrong, We want Status-quo, Pakistan has an 'unfinished core issue with us. Lets make LOC as IB and finish the problems once for all. No trade ..no middling at all. How many takers will be there ion Pakistan?

beg to disagree there mate, your own nationalist murdered your founder for the "crime" of giving away the land of Bharat Mata, now that killer is touted as a true heart & a hero, your extremists dont want status que on the contrary they want the rule from Landi Kotal to Ras Kumari and this attitude is quickly getting support and strength in your military.
whereas Pakistan Army is curbing the Islamists influence and keeping checks at Hizb Tahrir, your terrorist officer who was involved in the bombing of Samjhota express is seen as a hero by your fellow Indians.

 

[Ticker]

I don't get how Pakistan is stopping India from exercising it's influence in Afghanistan, we have a security treaty with Afghanistan secondly the US wants increased Indian influence in Afghanistan - it's India who is backing out from it owing to past and present status of other countries bad experiences with involvement in Afghanistan,

No. It is because the Americans have realized that any settlement in Afghanistan can not be attained with Pakistan' support.

I had stated earlier as well that India has been able to generate a limited diversionary effort using Afghan territory against Pakistan by supporting the terrorists. However, their effort beyond a certain level may intrusively confront the American interests.

Though Americans have also utilized such Indian sponsoring to achieve some of their objectives, such Indians actions and efforts would tend to lose support whence the Americans may initiate stability enhancing measures in Afghanistan.

Therefore, Indian efforts by default are restricted due to time and space limitations. Beyond these time and space limitations, Indian sponsoring would hurt the American efforts and would then become counter productive.

The Americans will retain 4-6 bases in Afghanistan as their next objective is full spectrum domination of Eurasian Hinterland and is therefore beyond Afghanistan. For such objective attainment, it is important for Afghanistan to attain a measure of stability. Indian use of Afghanistan as a proxy base for sponsoring terrorism in Pakistan will have to stop at a particular stage.

When the center of gravity shifts to Iran and Central Asia Pakistan would certainly become less prone to attacks from Indian sponsored terrorism. We as Pakistan must therefore remain steadfast in our efforts to maintain and sustain our strategic interests.

 

[somebozo]

There are alternative interpretations of everything. The Indian "unity in diversity" has been maintained by the spectre of a Pakistani bogeyman. Of course Indians will deny it, but the Indian media has been obsessed by Pakistan phobia, which has now been spiced up with the flavor of the decade, viz. terrorism.

India is replete with ethnic, linguistic, religious and cultural fault lines, any and all of which can be exploited. Just because Pakistan has failed to do so does not mean it cannot be done. Any group of people can be conditioned into a conflict-oriented mindset, be it ethnic, religious or cultural. Any group.



What matters is that we know what we are dealing with. Convincing anyone else is futile, given the West's current love affair with India.

While India has its fault lines it has been doing an end to end work to make these fault lines insignificant while Pakistan as a country started off with much better cohesion only to end up identity confused and ethnic groups in alliance with religious zealots waging an unholy war of terrorism on innocent civilians and soldiers.

 

[Ticker]

I don't get how Pakistan is stopping India from exercising it's influence in Afghanistan, we have a security treaty with Afghanistan secondly the US wants increased Indian influence in Afghanistan - it's India who is backing out from it owing to past and present status of other countries bad experiences with involvement in Afghanistan,

No. It is because the Americans have realized that any settlement in Afghanistan can not be attained with Pakistan' support.

I had stated earlier as well that India has been able to generate a limited diversionary effort using Afghan territory against Pakistan by supporting the terrorists. However, their effort beyond a certain level may intrusively confront the American interests.

Though Americans have also utilized such Indian sponsoring to achieve some of their objectives, such Indians actions and efforts would tend to lose support whence the Americans may initiate stability enhancing measures in Afghanistan.

Therefore, Indian efforts by default are restricted due to time and space limitations. Beyond these time and space limitations, Indian sponsoring would hurt the American efforts and would then become counter productive.

The Americans will retain 4-6 bases in Afghanistan as their next objective is full spectrum domination of Eurasian Hinterland and is therefore beyond Afghanistan. For such objective attainment, it is important for Afghanistan to attain a measure of stability. Indian use of Afghanistan as a proxy base for sponsoring terrorism in Pakistan will have to stop at a particular stage.

When the center of gravity shifts to Iran and Central Asia Pakistan would certainly become less prone to attacks from Indian sponsored terrorism. We as Pakistan must therefore remain steadfast in our efforts to maintain and sustain our strategic interests.