The enemy and Pakistan Army

[Developereo]

The feudals survive at the whim of a state with tactics understanding of the army much like how the Taliban were mushroomed up. Four periods of military dictatorships and none has been able to depose the feudal and hang the corrupt..enough of an evidence.

I agree there has been complicity by the generals but, as I explained in the other thread, there are extenuating circumstances which restrict what the army can do. I know we disagree as to how much freedom the army has to depose the feudals, given the latter's power, short of plunging the country into a full-fledged civil war. But the status quo is also harming the country.

Like I wrote, no easy answers.

 

[Developereo]

Not suggesting that it won't but we were talking about upping the ante. As I have already said, the dams have & are still being built. It gives us unprecedented control over Pakistan's waters which should make anyone in Pakistan advocating a super belligerent position against India, to take a deep breadth & pause. The fact remains that the IWT continues to function because India allows it, an abrogation can always happen. Reducing your water will not necessarily cause rationing but the economic impact will be substantial. Just another advantage in the chess game proposed to be played. Whether used or not, it still has tremendous blood pressure raising ability.

The game is not just between India and Pakistan, but in front of the whole world. The PR battle is just as important as the actual actions. With covert operations supporting various troublemakers within Pakistan, India can keep the pressure on Pakistan, all the while claiming to be the bereaved victim of terrorism.

With overt actions like water restriction, which are designed to have a direct economic impact on the civilian population, India would lose the moral high ground. It wouldn't matter if India had video recordings of ISI planning whatever, it still would not justify widespread economic retaliation on the civilian masses.

 

[Ticker]

India has not arrayed around 80% of its forces against Pakistan because it faces a major threat from Pakistan. Indian forces are deployed against Pakistan in such large numbers pose a major threat to Pakistan. After all where can the Indians use its strike forces consisting of three armoured divisions – certainly not in the Himalayas.

Precepts of Indian military strategy clearly indicate that these forces would be permanently poised against Pakistan, irrespective of the kind of threat that emerges from China.

Pakistan Army is very right in stating that the major military threat emanates from India. Let’s see Indian Armed Forces deployment against Pakistan to assess the factual environment.

And as the Indians are not going to shift and redeploy these forces from Pakistani front to the Chinese front which they call as their number one enemy, the threat from India is existential and won’t go away.

 

[fatman17]

India has not arrayed around 80% of its forces against Pakistan because it faces a major threat from Pakistan. Indian forces are deployed against Pakistan in such large numbers pose a major threat to Pakistan. After all where can the Indians use its strike forces consisting of three armoured divisions – certainly not in the Himalayas.

Precepts of Indian military strategy clearly indicate that these forces would be permanently poised against Pakistan, irrespective of the kind of threat that emerges from China.

Pakistan Army is very right in stating that the major military threat emanates from India. Let’s see Indian Armed Forces deployment against Pakistan to assess the factual environment.

And as the Indians are not going to shift and redeploy these forces from Pakistani front to the Chinese front which they call as their number one enemy, the threat from India is existential and won’t go away.

and how many IAF airfields/airbases are based along the IN/PK border - 19.
the 1st Rafale Sqn will be based at ambala.

 

[ajtr]

India has not arrayed around 80% of its forces against Pakistan because it faces a major threat from Pakistan. Indian forces are deployed against Pakistan in such large numbers pose a major threat to Pakistan. After all where can the Indians use its strike forces consisting of three armoured divisions – certainly not in the Himalayas.

Precepts of Indian military strategy clearly indicate that these forces would be permanently poised against Pakistan, irrespective of the kind of threat that emerges from China.

Pakistan Army is very right in stating that the major military threat emanates from India. Let’s see Indian Armed Forces deployment against Pakistan to assess the factual environment.

And as the Indians are not going to shift and redeploy these forces from Pakistani front to the Chinese front which they call as their number one enemy, the threat from India is existential and won’t go away.

Doesnt trrain to define the deployment of forces.for example pakistan will get the whole mechnanised Armoured brigades/divisions as its all plain and china getting most of mountain divisions.

 

[Ticker]

Mostly the Indian posters have talked rhetoric filled muck over here. Their mental grid-lock is very much evident and they seem to live in their make-believe dreams that India represents a peaceful entity and not a country which practices its own hegemonic attitude.

India is the most disliked country in this part of the world. And a clear reflection of such an attitude and behaviour is displayed by her territorial ambitions – contrary to their claims about them being status quo entity, which it is not.

India has territorial disputes with all its neighbors and they know that they are just being ridiculous with their claims. This can also be ascertained by its territorial disputes with her neighbours. This was posted earlier as well.


- Aksai Chin - India, China

- Arunachal Pradesh - India, China

- Azad Kashmir - India, Pakistan

- Boraibari - India, Bangladesh

- Daikhata-Dumabari - India, Bangladesh

- Demchok, Chumar, Kaurik, Shipki Pass, Jadh, and Lapthal - India, China

- Gilgit-Baltistan - India, Pakistan

- Indo-Bangladesh enclaves - India, Bangladesh

- Kachatheevu Island - India, Sri Lanka

- Jammu and Kashmir - India, Pakistan

- Kalapani region, the smaller Susta River dispute and the smaller still Antudanda and Nawalparasi disputes - India, Nepal

- Lathitila - India, Bangladesh

- Muhurichar river island - India, Bangladesh

- Pyrdiwah - India, Bangladesh

- Shaksgam Valley - India, China

- Siachen Glacier and Saltoro Ridge area - India, Pakistan

- Sir Creek - India, Pakistan

- South Talpatti/New Moore/Purbasha Island - India, Bangladesh

- Trans-Karakoram Tract - India, China


If India shared a border with US they would claim half of America.

 

[Developereo]

Mostly the Indian posters [...] seem to live in their make-believe dreams that India represents a peaceful entity

I am sure many of the Indians honestly believe that, and I find that quite amazing.

Frankly, I have met corn-fed Iowa farm boys who had a more mature attitude about their country's covert operations than some Indians here.

 

[Ticker]

and how many IAF airfields/airbases are based along the IN/PK border - 19.
the 1st Rafale Sqn will be based at ambala.

Indian Air Force consists of 5 operational commands. It has around 44 Operational Squadrons and 12 Transport Squadrons. 29 Indian Air Bases are deployed against Pakistan as compared to 6 against China, which India calls it enemy number one.

The Indian Navy is equipped with over 140 surface ships, 17 submarines and 119 aircraft/helicopters, divided in 4 Naval Commands with bulk deployed against Pakistan. Out of 16-17 Indian Navy bases, only 4-5 are on its eastern coast against purported Chinese intrusion whereas 12 naval bases are on its western coast against Pakistan.

 

[fatman17]

IND/PK

disputes;

kashmir/siachen
sir-creek
waters dispute

wars

1947 - kashmir
1965 - rann of kutch
1965 - kashmir
1971 - BD
1987 - brasstracks - saner minds prevailed.
1984 - now - siachen. numerous conflicts
1999 - kargil conflict

nuclear challenge

1974 - pakoran in rajestan
1992(?) - IN 5 nuke blasts
1993 - PK 6 nuke blasts

so there is a lot of bilateral 'bad history' between both countries. indian military build-up cannot be ignored. that is all the good brig.(r) was trying to say.

now all this can be changed. it required 'leadership' from both sides which is not forthcoming.

 

[Ticker]

Doesnt trrain to define the deployment of forces.for example pakistan will get the whole mechnanised Armoured brigades/divisions as its all plain and china getting most of mountain divisions.

Yet in all previous wars and Indian aggression against Pakistan, most of the forces deployed against the Chinese, including the mountain divisions have been re-deployed and used against Pakistan.

 

[Srinivas]

Mostly the Indian posters have talked rhetoric filled muck over here. Their mental grid-lock is very much evident and they seem to live in their make-believe dreams that India represents a peaceful entity and not a country which practices its own hegemonic attitude.

India is the most disliked country in this part of the world. And a clear reflection of such an attitude and behaviour is displayed by her territorial ambitions – contrary to their claims about them being status quo entity, which it is not.

India has territorial disputes with all its neighbors and they know that they are just being ridiculous with their claims. This can also be ascertained by its territorial disputes with her neighbours. This was posted earlier as well.


- Aksai Chin - India, China

- Arunachal Pradesh - India, China

- Azad Kashmir - India, Pakistan

- Boraibari - India, Bangladesh

- Daikhata-Dumabari - India, Bangladesh

- Demchok, Chumar, Kaurik, Shipki Pass, Jadh, and Lapthal - India, China

- Gilgit-Baltistan - India, Pakistan

- Indo-Bangladesh enclaves - India, Bangladesh

- Kachatheevu Island - India, Sri Lanka

- Jammu and Kashmir - India, Pakistan

- Kalapani region, the smaller Susta River dispute and the smaller still Antudanda and Nawalparasi disputes - India, Nepal

- Lathitila - India, Bangladesh

- Muhurichar river island - India, Bangladesh

- Pyrdiwah - India, Bangladesh

- Shaksgam Valley - India, China

- Siachen Glacier and Saltoro Ridge area - India, Pakistan

- Sir Creek - India, Pakistan

- South Talpatti/New Moore/Purbasha Island - India, Bangladesh

- Trans-Karakoram Tract - India, China


If India shared a border with US they would claim half of America.

We are not chinese to do the highlighted part.

Border disputes are almost solvable with BD,Srilanka and even with China if trust building measures are put in place except Pakistan.

The list you are showing are the disputes which are in the process of resolving and India achieved good progress with BD,Srilanka and China except Pakistan.

India is not suffering because of the border disputes and if every thing goes well majority will be solved except with Pakistan.

You are not in the position of agreeing any peaceful deal because of various reasons and one of them is PA who is willing to play for external powers.

 

[Wickerman]

Mostly the Indian posters have talked rhetoric filled muck over here. Their mental grid-lock is very much evident and they seem to live in their make-believe dreams that India represents a peaceful entity and not a country which practices its own hegemonic attitude.

India is the most disliked country in this part of the world. And a clear reflection of such an attitude and behaviour is displayed by her territorial ambitions – contrary to their claims about them being status quo entity, which it is not.

India has territorial disputes with all its neighbors and they know that they are just being ridiculous with their claims. This can also be ascertained by its territorial disputes with her neighbours. This was posted earlier as well.


- Aksai Chin - India, China

- Arunachal Pradesh - India, China

- Azad Kashmir - India, Pakistan

- Boraibari - India, Bangladesh

- Daikhata-Dumabari - India, Bangladesh

- Demchok, Chumar, Kaurik, Shipki Pass, Jadh, and Lapthal - India, China

- Gilgit-Baltistan - India, Pakistan

- Indo-Bangladesh enclaves - India, Bangladesh

- Kachatheevu Island - India, Sri Lanka

- Jammu and Kashmir - India, Pakistan

- Kalapani region, the smaller Susta River dispute and the smaller still Antudanda and Nawalparasi disputes - India, Nepal

- Lathitila - India, Bangladesh

- Muhurichar river island - India, Bangladesh

- Pyrdiwah - India, Bangladesh

- Shaksgam Valley - India, China

- Siachen Glacier and Saltoro Ridge area - India, Pakistan

- Sir Creek - India, Pakistan

- South Talpatti/New Moore/Purbasha Island - India, Bangladesh

- Trans-Karakoram Tract - India, China


If India shared a border with US they would claim half of America.

Yeah so India has border disputes. This is nothing new. And how do you know ALL of those claims are valid? Its disputed. People will go around asking for land, because of THEIR hegemonic ambitions. However we cannot bend over backwards to entertain them. Infact in most of these disputes, India is right. Kashmir belongs to India, infact Aksai Chin too belongs to India. Oh and as for Kachatheevu, to the best of my knowledge, it was ceded to Sri Lanka by India. So much for India's "hegemonic" ambitions.

1992(?) - IN 5 nuke blasts
1993 - PK 6 nuke blasts

1998 I believe.

 

[Ticker]

We are not chinese to do the highlighted part.

Border disputes are almost solvable with BD,Srilanka and even with China if trust building measures are put in place except Pakistan.

The list you are showing are the disputes which are in the process of resolving and India achieved good progress with BD,Srilanka and China except Pakistan.

India is not suffering because of the border disputes and if every thing goes well majority will be solved except with Pakistan.

You are not in the position of agreeing any peaceful deal because of various reasons and one of them is PA which will play for external powers.

And nothing much to talk about except rhetoric. These would be solved and there would be peace. OOs.

If India wanted to solve these disputes, it would not followed Nehru's forward policy and get punched in the face by the Chinese, and the Bangladeshis and Nepalese and the Bhutanese would not have complained again and again about India's intransigent attitude since last over 65 years.

Talk about such things amongst your own mutual praise group. Other do understand India's doublespeak since long.

 

[Bang Galore]

Yawn...must be a real slow day to say the same stuff only breaking it down piece by individual piece.... Why don't you start listing all the individual mountains in Kashmir, you will have an even longer list by the end.

Regardless of your silly post, India has not actively pursued any territory it does not have, even against weaker neighbours. You prove nothing. We are still a status quo power though what we might claim with other countries should have little bearing on us being status quoist with respect to Pakistan.

 

[ajtr]

Yet in all previous wars and Indian aggression against Pakistan, most of the forces deployed against the Chinese, including the mountain divisions have been re-deployed and used against Pakistan.

war is the key word between the countries.How many indo-pak has fought and howmany indo-china has fought. When it takes normal express train to chug passenger 4 days from kanyakumari to jammu then why would india deploy the forces inland.where it will almost take at least 2 weeks to move forces from east to west or west to east in any emergency.And why would india not take into account the the advantage pakistan has wrt most of its cantonment east of indus if one sees from rajasthan border indus is just 150 km or so.