The dragon gets a bear hug

[ChineseTiger1986]

What Myth is clear? Do you Indian feel inferior that Indian cant make a 5tth gen fighter at all? The Russian is even started to lack behind in China in every field. China is able to even export and sell armed UAV while Russian even need to swallow its pride and buy UAV from Israel. HAHAHA..

The only way that can make them feel better is to start the nonsense new and rumour about China interested in Su-35. Show me a source from China xinhua news or official CCP source about China going to sign deal with Su-35. I eat back my words!



Precisely, the Russian are feeling inferior to China that they start to lack behind in everything like needing to buy LHD from from France and getting UAV from Israel is hurting them when compare to China who basically needs no help from these new hardware. That they need to start this kind of smearing campaign of WZ-10 is designed by Russian and China getting Su-35 to ease their pain of losing out to China in advancement.

Russia still has the most advanced design of the nuclear sub, but they have the problem to achieve the mass production.

 

[Beast]

Russia still has the most advanced design of the nuclear sub, but they have the problem to achieve the mass production.

No, their sub noise level is still lacking behind US. China is slowing closing every gap and even surpass Russian in many areas like UAV,5th gen fighter, military ship building and missile defence like mid course ABM, anti satelite. In next five years, China wil surpass Russian in military hardware for anything.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

No, their sub noise level is still lacking behind US. China is slowing closing every gap and even surpass Russian in many areas like UAV, military ship building and missile defence like mid course ABM, anti satelite. In next five years, China wil surpass Russian in military hardware for anything.

Russia is now slightly ahead in nuclear sub, but China is far ahead in surface vessel.

But i do agree that China will surpass them in every fields by 2016-2018.

 

[ptldM3]

No, their sub noise level is still lacking behind US. China is slowing closing every gap and even surpass Russian in many areas like UAV,5th gen fighter, military ship building and missile defence like mid course ABM, anti satelite. In next five years, China wil surpass Russian in military hardware for anything.

A lot of nonsense, you have zero info on the acoustics of Russia submarines, you have zero information on both countries 5th generation aircraft to make such sensational statements, unless of course you somehow got your hand on highly sensitive information regarding both aircraft's radar systems, electronic warfare suits, weapons specifications, communication systems, data-links, mission computers, flight characteristics, ect. So you have this information?

Russia is now slightly ahead in nuclear sub, but China is far ahead in surface vessel.

But i do agree that China will surpass them in every fields by 2016-2018.

This could be possible if Russian engineers simply halted everything they were doing, which will not happen.

 

[Beast]

A lot of nonsense, you have zero info on the acoustics of Russia submarines, you have zero information on both countries 5th generation aircraft to make such sensational statements, unless of course you somehow got your hand on highly sensitive information regarding both aircraft's radar systems, electronic warfare suits, weapons specifications, communication systems, data-links, mission computers, flight characteristics, ect. So you have this information?

The fact Russian needs to buy a high tech precision cutting tools from Japan to make their sub propeller less acoustic signature more or less speaks of itself.

This could be possible if Russian engineers simply halted everything they were doing, which will not happen.

Russian research is almost stagnant. Despite the myth Russia economy is picking up, Russian amount of money pump into R&D is far behind China. Research and getting talent needs lots of money. China amount of research far surpass Russia one conducted.

World-class research on the rise in Brazil, Asia – Report - University World News

 

[ptldM3]

What Myth is clear? Do you Indian feel inferior that Indian cant make a 5tth gen fighter at all? The Russian is even started to lack behind in China in every field. China is able to even export and sell armed UAV while Russian even need to swallow its pride and buy UAV from Israel. HAHAHA..

The only way that can make them feel better is to start the nonsense new and rumour about China interested in Su-35. Show me a source from China xinhua news or official CCP source about China going to sign deal with Su-35. I eat back my words!



Precisely, the Russian are feeling inferior to China that they start to lack behind in everything like needing to buy LHD from from France and getting UAV from Israel is hurting them when compare to China who basically needs no help from these new hardware. That they need to start this kind of smearing campaign of WZ-10 is designed by Russian and China getting Su-35 to ease their pain of losing out to China in advancement.

The US also buys UAV's from Israel, so your argument is silly. The Mistral is an over glorified cargo ship, the reason it was purchased was because the design, logistics, construction, ect, ect would take far too long.

 

[Beast]

The US also buys UAV's from Israel, so your argument is silly. The Mistral is an over glorified cargo ship, the reason it was purchased was because the design, logistics, construction, ect, ect would take far too long.

LOLz.. Self comforting comment. Show me a Russian own made operational armed UAV?

MIstral is over glorified then may I know what equivalent is in Russian navy inventory?

So whose arguement is silly now?

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/08/russian-drones/

 

[ptldM3]

The fact Russian needs to buy a high tech precision cutting tools from Japan to make their sub propeller less acoustic signature more or less speaks of itself.

That means nothing, many countries use Japanese, German, or even American CNC machines and that news is from the 1980's. You do know what speaks for itself? The fact that China still uses AL-31's and and RD-33's in their '5th generation aircraft', the fact that China hired Russian engineers to work on the J-20' the fact that the PL-12 uses Russian designed components, and the fact that China copies Sukhoi's, that speaks for itself.

Russian research is almost stagnant. Despite the myth Russia economy is picking up, Russian amount of money pump into R&D is far behind China. Research and getting talent needs lots of money. China amount of research far surpass Russia one conducted.

Russian defense firms probably spend a lot more money on research and development then most Chinese companies, a great example would be engine development and the lack of creativity hence the need to copy sukhois, humvee trucks and many other foreign systems. I'm willing to bet that China spends more money on reverse engineering then on actual original concepts.

In any case Israel leads China and may other countries in many fields yet Israel's research and development is nothing compared to many other countries, what does that say about your argument? With all of the money and 'research' that China has done why are Chinese engines a disappointment?

 

[Beast]

That means nothing, many countries use Japanese, German, or even American CNC machines and that news is from the 1980's. You do know what speaks for itself? The fact that China still uses AL-31's and and RD-33's in their '5th generation aircraft', the fact that China hired Russian engineers to work on the J-20' the fact that the PL-12 uses Russian designed components, and the fact that China copies Sukhoi's, that speaks for itself.





Russian defense firms probably spend a lot more money on research and development then most Chinese companies, a great example would be engine development and the lack of creativity hence the need to copy sukhois, humvee trucks and many other foreign systems. I'm willing to bet that China spends more money on reverse engineering then on actual original concepts.

In any case Israel leads China and may other countries in many fields yet Israel's research and development is nothing compared to many other countries, what does that say about your argument? With all of the money and 'research' that China has done why are Chinese engines a disappointment?

You only pick on a single arguement and try paint all others as disappointment? Yes, our engine is still the bottleneck and I dare to say its the only one in China military hardware. Are you going to deny China advancement in UAV which is through our research? In terms of missile development. China and US are the both only reported countries to have develop workable ABM with mid course interception. Not to mention, our ever advancing Ship buidling. You claimed all this as money wasted? That is why I give another 5 years timeline for China to beat any of your Russian hardware in terms of advancement once WS-15 deput.

As for your PL-12 is just a internet myth like to pick up by anti China western basher. The fact, PL-12 aerodyanmic never even resemble the R-77 bought from Russian speaks on itself. Why would China pick and use an electronic component which she already deemd inferior?

As for your so called accusing of so much copying. I can sense the desperation and helpless of Russian being lag behind in China. Do you know Dongfeng humvee is joint venture with GM? The engine is US imported, design assist and so much of your accuse of copying. As for J-20, Mig already outright denied any assist to China. So may I know its copy from what?

By Accusing China as only know copying is a way to ease your pain of losing to mighty CHina in near future. I can understand your exasperation. So pain that your mother land fall from grace. Any rational being will also turn into a jealous and petty monster given in your case.

 

[Sanchez]

That means nothing, many countries use Japanese, German, or even American CNC machines and that news is from the 1980's. You do know what speaks for itself? The fact that China still uses AL-31's and and RD-33's in their '5th generation aircraft', the fact that China hired Russian engineers to work on the J-20' the fact that the PL-12 uses Russian designed components, and the fact that China copies Sukhoi's, that speaks for itself.





Russian defense firms probably spend a lot more money on research and development then most Chinese companies, a great example would be engine development and the lack of creativity hence the need to copy sukhois, humvee trucks and many other foreign systems. I'm willing to bet that China spends more money on reverse engineering then on actual original concepts.

In any case Israel leads China and may other countries in many fields yet Israel's research and development is nothing compared to many other countries, what does that say about your argument? With all of the money and 'research' that China has done why are Chinese engines a disappointment?

China did copy as well as bought lots of Soviet techs, not purely Russian. Pl-12 seeker? oh yes. We paid a full price but it's already discarded as garbage. Engines? We still need to buy some Russian stuff for some time, but days are numbered.

Tech tings are not equal to Russian dolls or Fabergé eggs that have a unique charm for ever.

 

[gpit]

... As Russia’s top business daily Kommersant noted recently, even today, Russian officials from top to bottom tend to look at India with “drowsy apathy,” while Mr. Putin’s visit to India last year was long on “meaningless protocol” and short on time and substance.

...

Looks like the Russian have learnt how to treat big mouth with big mouth.

China should also learn the trick...

 

[ptldM3]

You only pick on a single arguement and try paint all others as disappointment? Yes, our engine is still the bottleneck and I dare to say its the only one in China military hardware. Are you going to deny China advancement in UAV which is through our research? In terms of missile development. China and US are the both only reported countries to have develop workable ABM with mid course interception. Not to mention, our ever advancing Ship buidling. You claimed all this as money wasted?

This is where your argument hits a road block. On one hand you are pounding your chest claiming Chinese superiority in weapons and research/science yet now you are conceding the fact that China is behind in engine technology.

Engine technology is arguable the most difficult technology to master because of the various fields involved which includes metallurgy, advanced allows, crystal blade technology, electronic, engineering, manufacture, and many other fields which includes innovation. So if China is so much more advanced in technology and research as you claim then why after so many years is Chinese engine development lagging even though the Chinese have foreign engines to copy?

That is why I give another 5 years timeline for China to beat any of your Russian hardware in terms of advancement once WS-15 deput.

More chest thumping, for that to happen Russian engineers would have to Cease all development, which isn't happening since development has never stopped and in fact Russia is working on new generation technology such as a mid course missile with MIRV capability giving it an ability to engage 10 targets, sorry China has no equivalent.

As for your PL-12 is just a internet myth like to pick up by anti China western basher. The fact, PL-12 aerodyanmic never even resemble the R-77 bought from Russian speaks on itself. Why would China pick and use an electronic component which she already deemd inferior?

I have sources to back my claim, do you? Any Source or person that claims something that is not to your liking is automatically anti China and a lie, in any case prove that the PL-12 does not use those Russian electronics.

as for your so called accusing of so much copying. I can sense the desperation and helpless of Russian being lag behind in China.

No China does not copy at all the J-11, J-15, and J-11bs are totally original. The Russians are totally lagging behind with all the Russian input we still see in Chinese designs be it L-15, Phazatron and NIIP providing assistance to China to built their own radars, or the recent revilation about the WZ-10 helicopter which was disclosed not only by the chief designer of Kamov but years ago by a Kamov employee on a Chinese forum.

The list of Russian involvement in the Chinese defense industry goes on, of course People like you are in denial.

As for J-20, Mig already outright denied any assist to China. So may I know its copy from what?

Did I ever mention copying or Mig? The chief designer of the J-20 in an interview revealed that Russian engineers are working on the J-20 and before you go ape sh!t and accuse the Russian media of lying the article was posted on this forum and if I recall correctly a Chinese member posted it and it was in Chinese.

By Accusing China as only know copying is a way to ease your pain of losing to mighty CHina in near future. I can understand your exasperation. So pain that your mother land fall from grace. Any rational being will also turn into a jealous and petty monster given in your case.

Keep pounding your little feminine Chest at the end of the day you got nothing to support your claims. You, just like may others like you have an inferiority complex. Dragons are not real much like your claims, but bears are.

 

[帅的一匹]

we need to help Russian military industry alive by procuring some weapon from them. lots of Russian domestic politician strongly oppose selling SU35 to China, but President Putin made the decision in the end.

 

[Beast]

we need to help Russian military industry alive by procuring some weapon from them. lots of Russian domestic politician strongly oppose selling SU35 to China, but President Putin made the decision in the end.

Wrong, it's the Russian insist on shoving Su-35 to the Chinese side. All the while its sukhoi representives travelling to china that include their defence minister going to china to try hard sell of Su-35. If china is keen, it shall be the chinese travelling to moscow to try to seal the deal. But did it? Putin approved but its up to Chinese whether to buy anot?

Finally, china will not buy Su-35. It's only one side of Russian wishful thinking.

 

[Beast]

This is where your argument hits a road block. On one hand you are pounding your chest claiming Chinese superiority in weapons and research/science yet now you are conceding the fact that China is behind in engine technology.

Engine technology is arguable the most difficult technology to master because of the various fields involved which includes metallurgy, advanced allows, crystal blade technology, electronic, engineering, manufacture, and many other fields which includes innovation. So if China is so much more advanced in technology and research as you claim then why after so many years is Chinese engine development lagging even though the Chinese have foreign engines to copy?









More chest thumping, for that to happen Russian engineers would have to Cease all development, which isn't happening since development has never stopped and in fact Russia is working on new generation technology such as a mid course missile with MIRV capability giving it an ability to engage 10 targets, sorry China has no equivalent.






I have sources to back my claim, do you? Any Source or person that claims something that is not to your liking is automatically anti China and a lie, in any case prove that the PL-12 does not use those Russian electronics.




No China does not copy at all the J-11, J-15, and J-11bs are totally original. The Russians are totally lagging behind with all the Russian input we still see in Chinese designs be it L-15, Phazatron and NIIP providing assistance to China to built their own radars, or the recent revilation about the WZ-10 helicopter which was disclosed not only by the chief designer of Kamov but years ago by a Kamov employee on a Chinese forum.

The list of Russian involvement in the Chinese defense industry goes on, of course People like you are in denial.






Did I ever mention copying or Mig? The chief designer of the J-20 in an interview revealed that Russian engineers are working on the J-20 and before you go ape sh!t and accuse the Russian media of lying the article was posted on this forum and if I recall correctly a Chinese member posted it and it was in Chinese.






Keep pounding your little feminine Chest at the end of the day you got nothing to support your claims. You, just like may others like you have an inferiority complex. Dragons are not real much like your claims, but bears are.

Chest thumping is you. Engine technology is not everything. That is yr wishful view too. So by your theory, MIG-25 fitted with 2 AL-41 will turn invincible? HAHAHA...

You are ignoring other areas of critical technology like manufacturing tech and areas of electronic sector. Look at your PAFKA, which is totally unstealthy and like a crap. So this product is suppose to represent the best of Russian aviation design and manufacturing tech?

Look at Russian UAV. It almost non existent due to the backward of Russian electronic sector. The instant data relay and high flow of data is out of the grasp of Russian abilities. China is even selling a workable armed UAV and Russian has nothing to offer. UAV is suppose to represent the new warfare of the 21th century. If you are lacking behind, this shows you are backward and lackiń advance technology.