The dragon gets a bear hug

[ChineseTiger1986]

Something that is better than anything you have right now can be outdated, but I can understand your interest in the Yasen class, would love to see it for IN too.

PESA and the improved AL-31F engine, who needs those craps?

If Russia really wants to sell us something, then sell us the Yasen class SSN.

 

[sancho]

PESA and the improved AL-31F engine, who needs those craps?

If Russia really wants to sell us something, then sell us the Yasen class SSN.

Any countries that doesn't have a radar with up to 400Km detection range and Supercruise capable engines.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Any countries that doesn't have a radar with up to 400Km detection range and Supercruise capable engines.

No matter how much they keep bragging about their weapons, it is still a PESA radar and an improved version of the AL-31F engine.

Russia has the difficulty to commission their Yasen class sub, if they share its crucial technology with us, then we could use our stronger manufacturing capability to help to them to mass produce those subs.

This is the real win-win partnership, while selling the outdated stuffs to your partner isn't.

 

[sancho]

No matter how much they keep bragging about their weapons, it is still a PESA radar and an improved version of the AL-31F engine.

As I said, which remains better than anything you have, so it's not outdated for China, only because it's outdated for Russia, which are developing AESAs based on BARS and IRBIS E and the successor of the AL 31 engines.

This is the real win-win partnership, while selling the outdated stuffs to your partner isn't.

Totally agree with that, that's why I am happy that they offer us partnerships on their NG developments and techs.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

As I said, which remains better than anything you have, so it's not outdated for China, only because it's outdated for Russia, which are developing AESAs based on BARS and IRBIS E and the successor of the AL 31 engines.

The first prototype of J-20 uses the AL-31FM engine, a further advanced variant of the AL-31 series with 150kn of thrust.

We are the shareholder and co-developer of this type of variant, why would we need the inferior 117S engine?

Even our Aegis DDG is using AESA radars, selling PESA aircraft to us is nothing but a disrespect.

Russia is too sneaky in doing business with others, no wonder they are starting to lose India to US as their largest client.

 

[Zabaniyah]

Well, Russia's sale of military equipment have been going down over the years. And probably set to go down even further with what is going on in Syria.

India appears to be increasingly ordering big toys from the Western nations.

So this deal with China is not surprising. They'll undoubtedly try to secure more orders from other nations as well.

It's business as usual.

Stop looking at everything from the Cold War-era perspective people!

 

[UKBengali]

Well, Russia's sale of military equipment have been going down over the years. And probably set to go down even further with what is going on in Syria.

India appears to be increasingly ordering big toys from the Western nations.

So this deal with China is not surprising. They'll undoubtedly try to secure more orders from other nations as well.

It's business as usual.

Stop looking at everything from the Cold War-era perspective people!

Putin touts record Russian arms sales of $14 billion in 2012 | Reuters

Actually Russian arms sales are increasing - they are no 2 in the world now.

Russia lost a decade at least with the collapse of the Soviet Union but they are now spending large sums on both weapons development and procurement.

China will probably overtake them by 2020 but they are still a force to reckon with in the global arms market.

 

[Sergi]

Mental masturbation... isn't it

God knows man. You can find a couple of false flagers everyday.

 

[sancho]

The first prototype of J-20 uses the AL-31FM engine, a further advanced variant of the AL-31 series with 150kn of thrust.

We are the shareholder and co-developer of this type of variant, why would we need the inferior 117S engine?

Even our Aegis DDG is using AESA radars, selling PESA aircraft to us is nothing but a disrespect.

Russia is too sneaky in doing business with others, no wonder they are starting to lose India to US as their largest client.

You have the F and the FN and both don't provide J11 nor J10 Supercurise capability right? But the Su 35 does have this capability and you need it for J20 to reach the performance of a 5th fighter, just like you need such an advanced PESA radar, since your fighters still only use puls doppler radars, although there are some rumors about own PESA or AESA development, but till now there wasn't any confirmation about AESA in J11B or J10B right? Infact the reports about J10 are not even clear if it's a PESA radar it might get. So no matter how long you deny the fact, Russia is still ahead of you in engine and radar developments, while your own engine development suffer from less maturity, partially overweight or even not offering more thrust than the Russian engines they should replace. These are parts of the reasons why PAF is still waiting for an Chinese engine, that might be good enough to be used in JF 17 and to not be dependent on Russian engine supplies, which is funny, since China itself is highly dependent on Russian engine supplies for nearly every aircraft you have in development isn't it?
But you are right, for Russia selling Su 35 to China would be usual business for them, since they sell stuff to others, that they consider as not high end anymore, especially when they offer us more advanced things.
Btw, Russia loosing India as it's biggest client, really?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...lose-indian-defense-market-3.html#post3544698


I can understand that you and some others would like to see that, but that's not going to happen, because the industries are now linked with eachother on a much deeper level than ever before.

Well, Russia's sale of military equipment have been going down over the years. And probably set to go down even further with what is going on in Syria.

Russia sold $12.9 billion to about 60 nations last year, with total orders amounting to $37.3 billion, state-run Rosoboronexport arms trader said.

Businessweek - Business News, Stock market & Financial Advice

Russia, the world's second-largest weapons exporter, has granted a $1 billion loan to Bangladesh for arms purchases

Russia grants Bangladesh $1 billion loan for weapons: Putin | Reuters

Russia announced on Tuesday it has signed $4.2 billion in arms deals with Iraq, making it the largest weapons supplier to the Middle East country after the United States.

Iraq buys $4.2 billion in Russian weapons-document | Reuters

Russia, India sign weapons deals worth billions

Russia, India sign weapons deals worth billions - Yahoo! News


Russia is not the Soviet Union anymore and they have changed their policies because of that. They seareched for new partners and safe markets for the coming decades, with India getting their preference in both.
They are selling their products today even to US / NATO partners and what is even more interesting, they now even buy from US / NATO partners and form JVs and joint development.
So they are doing the same we do, by getting more advantages out of a wider access to the market, instead of limiting themselfs by indigenous developments only and defence developments for the own forces only. It's a globalised world and that fits to the defence markets as well!

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

You have the F and the FN and both don't provide J11 nor J10 Supercurise capability right? But the Su 35 does have this capability and you need it for J20 to reach the performance of a 5th fighter, just like you need such an advanced PESA radar, since your fighters still only use puls doppler radars, although there are some rumors about own PESA or AESA development, but till now there wasn't any confirmation about AESA in J11B or J10B right? Infact the reports about J10 are not even clear if it's a PESA radar it might get. So no matter how long you deny the fact, Russia is still ahead of you in engine and radar developments, while your own engine development suffer from less maturity, partially overweight or even not offering more thrust than the Russian engines they should replace. These are parts of the reasons why PAF is still waiting for an Chinese engine, that might be good enough to be used in JF 17 and to not be dependent on Russian engine supplies, which is funny, since China itself is highly dependent on Russian engine supplies for nearly every aircraft you have in development isn't it?
But you are right, for Russia selling Su 35 to China would be usual business for them, since they sell stuff to others, that they consider as not high end anymore, especially when they offer us more advanced things.
Btw, Russia loosing India as it's biggest client, really?

Yeah, J-11B uses the AESA radar so far, we had already showed many times before, only you Indian trolls keep ignoring it and keep repeating the same verbal diarrhea.

Russia more advanced in the radar development? Maybe on the paper, but they should develop an indigenous AESA radar DDG first and conduct some proper midcourse anti-missile tests.

 

[danger007]

Yeah, J-11B uses the AESA radar so far, we had already showed many times before, only you Indian trolls keep ignoring it and keep repeating the same verbal diarrhea.

Russia more advanced in the radar development? Maybe on the paper, but they should develop an indigenous AESA radar DDG first and conduct some proper midcourse anti-missile tests.

ON paper itself, you are inferior to Russian tech.... Fact is most of chinese 5th gen Project is underdevelopment... until few days ago every one keep saying We are not going to buy SU-35 , Russian sources are not crdeible... but the myth is cleared now.... J-20/j-16/j-31 or any j-2X may be end like test bed.... Until unless you achieve to develop single 5th gen... You can't run parallel project for serial production...

 

[conworldus]

ON paper itself, you are inferior to Russian tech.... Fact is most of chinese 5th gen Project is underdevelopment... until few days ago every one keep saying We are not going to buy SU-35 , Russian sources are not crdeible... but the myth is cleared now.... J-20/j-16/j-31 or any j-2X may be end like test bed.... Until unless you achieve to develop single 5th gen... You can't run parallel project for serial production...

Yet all the Su 35 buying info comes from the Russian media. Again, there is NO confirmation from China.

 

[scarcry]

On the anvil: 5th generation Super Sukhois - Rediff.com India News

These upgraded Super Sukhois will have a better lifecycle engine (117s as these last 2.3 as much times as al 31fp)

these russian rascala are playing both games. Idhar su 35 chinio ko becho udhar su 35 + lagakar hame chuti&a banao!

 

[siegecrossbow]

If Chinese military fans heard about the Su-35 deal a decade ago, they would probably rejoice. Now, they will merely act disgruntled.

 

[Beast]

ON paper itself, you are inferior to Russian tech.... Fact is most of chinese 5th gen Project is underdevelopment... until few days ago every one keep saying We are not going to buy SU-35 , Russian sources are not crdeible... but the myth is cleared now.... J-20/j-16/j-31 or any j-2X may be end like test bed.... Until unless you achieve to develop single 5th gen... You can't run parallel project for serial production...

What Myth is clear? Do you Indian feel inferior that Indian cant make a 5tth gen fighter at all? The Russian is even started to lack behind in China in every field. China is able to even export and sell armed UAV while Russian even need to swallow its pride and buy UAV from Israel. HAHAHA..

The only way that can make them feel better is to start the nonsense new and rumour about China interested in Su-35. Show me a source from China xinhua news or official CCP source about China going to sign deal with Su-35. I eat back my words!

Yet all the Su 35 buying info comes from the Russian media. Again, there is NO confirmation from China.

Precisely, the Russian are feeling inferior to China that they start to lack behind in everything like needing to buy LHD from from France and getting UAV from Israel is hurting them when compare to China who basically needs no help from these new hardware. That they need to start this kind of smearing campaign of WZ-10 is designed by Russian and China getting Su-35 to ease their pain of losing out to China in advancement.