The apostates of Pakistan

[Thor]

I wonder how many times a thread about Ahmadiyya must be opened by ignorant people who have no knowledge of this cult and this cult members who cannot answer any claims of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as in the document in my post above #44 and other arguments I have raised........... when they are able to do so then maybe my position will change.....

Can you put up a paper on why Deobandis do not call their own founder Qasim Nanutwi a kafir/non-Muslim for his Ahmadi like beliefs? Why do Deobandis not feel ashamed to be associated with that man's madrassa, Darulaloom Deoband? What do Deobandis think of their elders who were students of this denier of finality of prophethood and did not disassociate themselves from him and some probably shared his beliefs too being his students?

There is clear discrepancy in how Deobandis are acting here.

A typical Ahmadi response, not raise anything about the writings of MGA but go into something which will take the argument elsewhere, read the document I have attached and please explain the position of MGA against Jesus and the insults against him........ which is oneo f the many reasons of hostilities against you

 

[Thor]

Why do Muslims show unhappiness with Ahmadis in general........

Well its abit like this..........

We Muslims believe Jesus to be a Messenger of Allah and highly regarded, with much love and respect..... However Mirza Ghulam Ahmad wanted to take this position of the Promised Messiah and the poison he tried to spill in his writings which Ahmadis to date have no answers and refuse to answer is as follows, lets see what your MGA says that makes Muslims so angry:

"It should be remembered that he (Jesus) had also to some extent the habit of lying." (Zamima Anjam Atham, Roohani Khazain Vol 11 p. 289)

"(Jesus) had the habit of uttering obscenities and frequently using foul language." (Zamima Anjam-e-Atham, Roohani Khazain , Vol 11 p.289)

"What is your opinion about the character of the Messiah? (it is that Jesus ) was an Alcoholic and Gluttonous person, neither Abstinent nor a Pious Worshipper, nor a Truth seeker. He was a Proud and a Self- conceited Claimant of Divinity." (Nur-ul-Quran, Roohani Khazain Vol 9 p.387)

"The root cause of all the damage that alcohol consumption has had on the Europeans was that Jesus used to drink alcohol, perhaps because of some disease or an old habit." (Kashti-e-Nooh, Roohani Khazain vol 19 p.71)

"(while on the cross) Jesus could not portray himself as pious man because people knew he was gluttonous alcoholic and these bad habits were not ever since claiming divinity but it seems from early age he had (these habits). Therefore to claim divinity is one of the bad after effects of alcoholism." (Satt bachan, Roohani Khazain vol 10 p 296)

"Jesus had an inclination for prostitutes, perhaps due to his ancestral relationship with them, otherwise no pious man could allow a young prostitute to touch his head with her f1lthy hands, and massage his head with the unclean perfume purchased with the earnings of adultery and rub his feet with her hair. Let the intelligent judge what sort of character such a person must possess." (Zamimah Anjam Atham, Roohani Khazain Vol 11 p.291)

"The Christians have written about many miracles of (Jesus) but the fact is that he did not perform any miracle." (Zamima Anjam-e-Atham, Roohani Khazain vol 11 p.290)

"The family of Jesus was perfectly holy and immaculate. Jesus' three paternal and maternal grandmothers were fornicators and pr0stitutes, from whose blood the body of Jesus came into existence." (Zamima Anjam-e-Atham, Roohani Khazain vol 11 p.291)

Many more can be added, but please download the document for full details


https://hotfile.com/dl/150394683/835419c/File_1.pdf.html

 

[Meesna]

I wonder how many times a thread about Ahmadiyya must be opened by ignorant people who have no knowledge of this cult and this cult members who cannot answer any claims of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as in the document in my post above #44 and other arguments I have raised........... when they are able to do so then maybe my position will change.....



A typical Ahmadi response, not raise anything about the writings of MGA but go into something which will take the argument elsewhere, read the document I have attached and please explain the position of MGA against Jesus and the insults against him........ which is oneo f the many reasons of hostilities against you

Are you saying Ahmadis get hostility for raising genuine questions? Even I am embarrassed for you.

I take it you do not have a response to Deobandi discrepancy issue on Khatm-e-Nabuwat. Funny, I would have thought you would have declared at least their founder kafir for the same reason that you declare Ahmadis. Why this double standard?

 

[Thor]

Are you saying Ahmadis get hostility for raising genuine questions? Even I am embarrassed for you.

I take it you do not have a response to Deobandi discrepancy issue on Khatm-e-Nabuwat. Funny, I would have thought you would have declared at least their founder kafir for the same reason that you do declare Ahmadis. Why this double standard?

I do not know deobandis and do not refer myself to any "sect" and this is an age old tactic by Ahmadis to divert the topics away from MGA's writings........ if you do not have any answers for his claims them just say so and declare him false, as deep down you too know that his claims are wrong, yet wish to beat around the bush and avoid it altogether in the hope that the other side will also move away thus avoiding tough questions altogether.........

I could not care less about questions on Deobandis, Ahle Haddith, Sunni, Shia etc etc etc, it means nothing and as such I have not raised them hence PLEASE ANSWER THE POINTS RAISED ABOVE ABOUT THE CLAIMS OF MGA

 

[Thor]

As usual, no answers from Ahmadis about the claims of MGA. For Muslims and non Muslims alike, I request you download the hot file link and read through it and use it for future reference, so that Ahmadis cannot try and fool people into believing that Muslims just show hostilities as they are slightly different.

Like the Christians did when Jesus arrived and called their faith christianity rather then judaism, like Muslims did by calling themselves Muslims, Ahmadis need to do the same and move away from their stubbornness of insisting themselves on being Muslims and all those who do not agree with them are "5wines" and their women "b1tches". Just quoting again your promised messiah, Mira Ghulam Ahmed. Like the Baha'i faith, move away and stop associating yourselves with Islam

 

[Thor]

Just in case someone does decide to get the hotfile deleted.......... I have listed each page in order separately

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide1.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide2.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide3.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide4.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide5.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide6.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide7.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide8.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide9.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide10.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide11.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide12.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide13.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide14.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide15.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide16.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide17.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide18.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i421/rab_zuk1/Ahmadiyya 1/Slide19.jpg

This is only one set of claims made by the Promised Messiah of Ahmadis, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad,, alot more to follow as to why Muslims dislike Ahmadis.........ITS BECAUSE OF THE WRITINGS ABOVE BY AHMADIS

 

[Thor]

For all Ahmadis and Muslims, this website is of a sister who left Ahmadiyyat and began to speak up against the crimes committed by this group against their own kind...........

I invite all Ahmadi Brothers and Sisters into the fold of Islam, if you cannot answer to the claims of MGA as above, then question the wisdom of following him altogether.

Ahmadiyya: The Cult - Discussions on Islam vs Ahmadiyya

 

[Jackdaws]

You know the most ironic part about the Ahmadis - it is well - Gurdaspur. For years Pakistan argued that Gurdaspur should have been awarded to Pakistan because it was majority Muslim. Well, it was majority Muslim ONLY IF Ahmadis are considered a Muslims. So, it was a matter of convenience. The Hindus and Sikhs probably drove them out of Gurdaspur in 1947 because they were apparently Muslim and Pakistan. And a few years down the line the Pakistanis say - "Oh well, you are not Muslims". Talk about being bajaoed from both sides

 

[Thor]

You know the most ironic part about the Ahmadis - it is well - Gurdaspur. For years Pakistan argued that Gurdaspur should have been awarded to Pakistan because it was majority Muslim. Well, it was majority Muslim ONLY IF Ahmadis are considered a Muslims. So, it was a matter of convenience. The Hindus and Sikhs probably drove them out of Gurdaspur in 1947 because they were apparently Muslim and Pakistan. And a few years down the line the Pakistanis say - "Oh well, you are not Muslims". Talk about being bajaoed from both sides

Many Pakistanis themselves did not and yet do not know of Ahmadis and their beliefs......... It was only in 1972 that the rulers in Pakistan became actually aware of them and their beliefs which led to them being declared non-Muslim.... hence, I wouldn't be surprised by that stand at the time.......although Allama Iqbal, did warn about Ahmadis in his writings long before.......

Hence my need to highlight the above and make the position of Muslims very clear as to what exactly the Ahmadi claims are which do not want bought out.....

 

[Awesome]

Thought I leave this with you.

Funny that Deobandis have not been able to declare their own founder Qasim Nanutwi non-Muslim for the same reason so far, yet Deobandis are the ones most fanatic about persecuting just about everyone including Ahmadis.

We should fight logic with logic. Logic belongs to no one - not Deobandi, not Ahmedi, it belongs to provable facts. Such people in the video you posted are more interested in putting the other side down rather than proving their own side right.

I really don't care about the Deobandi logic - I'm sticking with my own research and study. "Khatamun" to me would mean last. In our own urdu, what does Khatam mean? Quran saying he is last makes sense. I repeat, this is for me, linguistically. I think a more clearer word would have been used in the Quran if it was meant, "Good quality prophet".

 

[Awesome]

Are you saying Ahmadis get hostility for raising genuine questions? Even I am embarrassed for you.

I take it you do not have a response to Deobandi discrepancy issue on Khatm-e-Nabuwat. Funny, I would have thought you would have declared at least their founder kafir for the same reason that you declare Ahmadis. Why this double standard?

I can understand Ahmedis being upset with them DECLARED kafir by our government, but the approach to fight this is to undeclare yourself, rather than pursue other sects to be declared Kafir as well. You will only pile up resistance to yourself.

The issue is not whether Pakistanis accept Ahmedis as true Muslim - I don't. But I still truly believe our government has no right to declare people as Muslim or Kafir, it is a shady behavior of the government and legislation needs to change.

 

[pakistanitarzan]

If someone was really a prophet, do you guys think that God will really make him die while he is taking a crap and throwin up at the same time?

 

[Awesome]

If someone was really a prophet, do you guys think that God will really make him die while he is taking a crap and throwin up at the same time?

Please don't make childish remarks... People die of cancer, floods, famine, hunger they all must be really evil too. If this is the argument then its no argument at all.

 

[Hutchroy]

Prosecution of Ahmadis in India ... Wikipedia

If you are so worried about them then I am sorry to inform you that hands of Indians are not clean either

This prosecution of Ahmedis is BY THE INDIAN MUSLIMS BELONGING TO THE MAJORITY SECTS.

India its Government or its People, other than Indian Muslims of the Majority sects, are blameless.

 

[Thor]

I can understand Ahmedis being upset with them DECLARED kafir by our government, but the approach to fight this is to undeclare yourself, rather than pursue other sects to be declared Kafir as well. You will only pile up resistance to yourself.

The issue is not whether Pakistanis accept Ahmedis as true Muslim - I don't. But I still truly believe our government has no right to declare people as Muslim or Kafir, it is a shady behavior of the government and legislation needs to change.

Asim, firstly, it is the Ahmadis that declared Muslims Kafir, not us..........it was when the Khalifa of Ahmadis went to the Parliament house and when he declared Muslims as Kafir that the decision was taken to declare the Ahmadiyya Kaffir, not just on that one issue alone, but the very fact that the basic tenets of Ahmadiyyat involving Mirza Ghulam Ahmad were not just against Islam, but absolute treachery where on one hand they claimed to be Muslim and on the other they held beliefs which caused further division and spread poison within the teachings of Islam for those who were not familiar with Ahmadiyyat and its teachings, as I have highlighted above, that above is just one part, a small fraction of what Ahmadi claims are, I have not even touched upon the other portions of Ahmadiyyat which is shown to Non-Muslims in the form that it is Islam, again misguiding people..........

All they had to do was like the Christians, who did not call themselves true Jews, like Muslims who did not call themselves true Christian they too need to call themselves something else and stop brandishing their teachings under the banner of Islam spreading their message as I have highlighted above as that which Muslims believe.............