TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[hyperman]

And if you discuss these issues in a more appropriate thread, I would like to contribute. This thread is dedicated to MMU related developments and I would be grateful if we can keep it as clean as we can.

You are right, last comment from me on this matter, let me not distract from what has been a very significant day in seeing a bunch of these platforms unveiled.

Any news on when the first flight of the TB3 is?

 

[dBSPL]

You are right, last comment from me on this matter, let me not distract from what has been a very significant day in seeing a bunch of these platforms unveiled.

Any news on when the first flight of the TB3 is?

The Baykar side has been silent for a while, TAI is currently on the stage, but we know that Baykar will not be under this. lol In anyway, according to the planned schedule, the TB-3 system should be declassified within a few months. I think the Baykar side can start its show in Ramadan.

 

[hyperman]

The Baykar side has been silent for a while, TAI is currently on the stage, but we know that Baykar will not be under this. lol In anyway, according to the planned schedule, the TB-3 system should be declassified within a few months. I think the Baykar side can start its show in Ramadan.

Yeah the only thing I'm guessing thats taking so long are complications from the catapult launch system that they are trying to put on the TB3, which should be the hardest part. other than that its basically a TB2 with satnav and foldable wings, not too difficult from an engineering perspective.

I think that its one of the underrated Bayraktar platforms, no other platform like that exists in the world, which is rare. its going to be truly change capabilities being able to perform sea operations far far away from Turkey. Maybe Park it on the coast on Somalia and do testing there helping the Somali govt in fighting the insurgency or around the coast of Libya. lol

 

[Shams313]

My desktop....PIC of the day...Not gonna change this for few months...does any one have good pics from different angle...?

 

[TNT]

This looks amazing, very impressive. Congrats to our turk brothers. Why no DSI intakes? Im sure turks have the capability to design it. Maybe Tfx is designed for high speed.
Also can someone plz thread ban the greek shitting all over the thread n constantly derailing it, along with his sidekick.

 

[Yawm al-qiyāma]

Don't hit Egypt hard, man. Things will get better soon. lol. Turkish-Egyptian relations and national interests are becoming parallel again, mark my words.

And if you discuss these issues in a more appropriate thread, I would like to contribute. This thread is dedicated to MMU related developments and I would be grateful if we can keep it as clean as we can.


Wingman of MMU and secondary bomber penetrator. It is first variant and finally declasified.

Now we are waiting other surprise.

What is the next surprise are you talking about ATAK II?

 

[Trisolaran]

This looks amazing, very impressive. Congrats to our turk brothers. Why no DSI intakes? Im sure turks have the capability to design it. Maybe Tfx is designed for high speed.

First prototype will fly at subsonic speed so I guess thats why.

 

[LegionnairE]

Yes, for example, the under-fuselage weapon stations were revised in a tandem arrangement instead of a single main section. The side internal weapon stations has been enlarged. The nose radar radome has been almost doubled in size, which is an important clue to the targeted electronic capabilities. Peripheral radar antennas have also placed different points on the aircraft. The pilot seating position has been raised.

Personally, I think that the overall silhouette of the aircraft will not change much, but there may be some revisions, especially in the tail section. F110s are temporary engines and thrust vectoring may be targeted from B30 onwards along with better thermal management. In the current situation, the widening of the engine spacing as much as possible shows that there are some evaluations on asymmetric thrust.

In a few months, the CDR phase will be announced and the schedule for the first flight will begin. Target is end of 2023.

I don't understand why this position was chosen for the pilot, I don't really like this cockpit design. I hope it gets moved a bit back and the canopy is enlarged to give a little bit more rearward visibility.

I also want diverterless inlet design and hopefully a twin seater version, (because who's going to fly the KE?)

Because one of the most important evaluation errors in social media circles is that this aircraft is a consequence of being excluded from the F-35 project. In fact, we have never tried to create an equivalent of the F-35, our aim was to create an F-22 equivalent equipped with systems as up-to-date as the F-35.

The project started technically in the mid-2000s and officially in 2011. When the project was in the design phase, things happened with the F-35. In other words, the aim here was to achieve the capability to produce an air superiority aircraft at the very beginning, but when mainly air-to-ground type F-35 procurement, which would be the partner of this aircraft, did not procured as planned, the MMU project continued its development as a more multirole aircraft. SSB President Demir's statement on this subject is exactly as follows: "The MMU is an aircraft that incorporates the advantages of the F-35 and the F-22, and is positioned between the two."

In technical terms, there are many details reminiscent of the soviet style aviation school, from the IRST in front of the cockpit to the mini radome between the engines, which can almost be called a boom, while the main aerodynamics are very reminiscent of the F-22 platform, which has proven itself quite well in this field.

I think they forgot about the fact that this project started before we got kicked out of the F35 program. F35 was going to be the single engine deep-strike air-to-ground oriented fighter and TFX the twin-engine air superiority craft.

It's not just the need for an air-superiority fighter, we also just needed a twin engine platform period. Why do people think the ancient F4 is still operational? A twin engine aircraft is needed to carry some payloads and test them.

I think ANKA 3 can safely take over the deep strike role after the F35 ordeal, that leaves TFX and KE to win the air war. It's perfect.

 

[LegionnairE]

I also think that TB2s and TB3s can be moved to land forces and naval forces command respectively.

Since their scope will be limited to tactical level.

 

[hyperman]

What is the next surprise are you talking about ATAK II?

might eb a while, the engine was only recently delivered, and we haven't seen any leaks of the assembly, so prob not the atak2, maybe something like the TB3, or the TCG Anadolu.

 

[LegionnairE]

Reputable sources share the information that ANKA-3 is carrier capable from born. In a sense, we are watching the formation of a fixed wing air force of the Turkish naval forces.

Which carrier though? I highly doubt that it will take off from the short deck of TCG Anadolu that has no form of catapult.

Even if it did thanks to that big flying wing design, it wouldn't be able to carry much payload I don't think.

 

[dBSPL]

Which carrier though? I highly doubt that it will take off from the short deck of TCG Anadolu that has no form of catapult.

Even if it did thanks to that big flying wing design, it wouldn't be able to carry much payload I don't think.

The Navalized Hürjet is not a speculation, but a preliminary design study that has been confirmed by official sources. Question 1: Why is there an idea to develop a training jet for the navy? The most common argument is that this aircraft will be armed and turned into a light-armed navy aircraft to use in TCG Anadolu, but I think the scope of the work here is much broader than that. First and foremost, learning how to navalize a jet and use it on a naval platform.

The other thing is KE, this is being developed as a interceptor jet drone rather than a loyalwing. In other words, it is a high-speed jet, and there are very different and challenging parameters from propeller-driven tactical drones such as the TB-3, from the approach speed of this aircraft to the preparations on the runway. So question 2: Why is Navalized KE or even twin-engine combat jet drones(Ke-2), which have a much higher total take-off weight, currently one of the leading programs of the Turkish defense industry, despite the fact that the existing infrastructure of TCG Anadolu has very challenging limits in terms of sortie capacity of jet-powered aircraft?

Finally, the Anka-3 and the not yet declassified Anka-4. Drone platforms that will be used as bomber penetrators with high stealth characteristics in flyingwing form and perhaps as tanker drones in the future. It is speculated that these systems will develop as navalized. Another anecdote is that there are also targets for the navalized variant within the MMU program.

When we put these examples together, it is clear that there is an attempt to build up a backlog for the next 10 years. In this regard, TCG Anadolu will create a transition and learning process. Even with its limited sortie capacity, we will learn to operate a combined force structure and task groups. In this regard, both armed force sources and political will have repeatedly declared their intentions. We cannot reach that point in an instant. Because the area we are now transitioning to in defense policies is opening up towards technical capabilities and operational capabilities that you cannot buy even with your money. We can only reach these steps by learning and producing them ourselves.

Maybe it will never be a supercarrier, but I see that there is an intention to follow a path similar to the French' past or South Korea's roadmap, and there are many concrete situations that support this. The necessity of such a platform and whether the Turkish economy can carry such an additional burden within the timeframe set are separate discussions. What I want to say is that there is such a will and the infrastructure is being created.

 

[LegionnairE]

The Navalized Hürjet is not a speculation, but a preliminary design study that has been confirmed by official sources. Question 1: Why is there an idea to develop a training jet for the navy? The most common argument is that this aircraft will be armed and turned into a light-armed navy aircraft to use in TCG Anadolu, but I think the scope of the work here is much broader than that. First and foremost, learning how to navalize a jet and use it on a naval platform.

The other thing is KE, this is being developed as a interceptor jet drone rather than a loyalwing. In other words, it is a high-speed jet, and there are very different and challenging parameters from propeller-driven tactical drones such as the TB-3, from the approach speed of this aircraft to the preparations on the runway. So question 2: Why is Navalized KE or even twin-engine combat jet drones(Ke-2), which have a much higher total take-off weight, currently one of the leading programs of the Turkish defense industry, despite the fact that the existing infrastructure of TCG Anadolu has very challenging limits in terms of sortie capacity of jet-powered aircraft?

Finally, the Anka-3 and the not yet declassified Anka-4. Drone platforms that will be used as bomber penetrators with high stealth characteristics in flyingwing form and perhaps as tanker drones in the future. It is speculated that these systems will develop as navalized. Another anecdote is that there are also targets for the navalized variant within the MMU program.

When we put these examples together, it is clear that there is an attempt to build up a backlog for the next 10 years. In this regard, TCG Anadolu will create a transition and learning process. Even with its limited sortie capacity, we will learn to operate a combined force structure and task groups. In this regard, both armed force sources and political will have repeatedly declared their intentions. We cannot reach that point in an instant. Because the area we are now transitioning to in defense policies is opening up towards technical capabilities and operational capabilities that you cannot buy even with your money. We can only reach these steps by learning and producing them ourselves.

Maybe it will never be a supercarrier, but I see that there is an intention to follow a path similar to the French' past or UK example (or South Korea's roadmap), and there are many concrete situations that support this. The necessity of such a platform and whether the Turkish economy can carry such an additional burden within the timeframe set are separate discussions. What I want to say is that there is such a will and the infrastructure is being created.

There has to be a dedicated aircraft carrier in the works,

I would discard plans for Hürjet and make it specially designed for maximum 3-4 ton drones. Therefore a much smaller ship with a much simpler catapult, sort of like a miniature Nimitz class.

It would make sense economically, and it would make sense operationally. And poor TCG Anadolu can finally go back to being an LHD

 

[dBSPL]

There has to be a dedicated aircraft carrier in the works,

I would discard plans for Hürjet and make it specially designed for maximum 3-4 ton drones. Therefore a much smaller ship with a much simpler catapult, sort of like a miniature Nimitz class.

It would make sense economically, and it would make sense operationally. And poor TCG Anadolu can finally go back to being an LHD

The Navantia Athlas-26000 infrastructure (base model of TCG ANadolu) is essentially a platform designed from scratch as a multi-role ship. In other words, it really includes the LCA concept, and in fact they won the tender because they agreed to open this design in its entirety.

One of the reasons why Navantia has embarked on such a flexible design is probably because of NATO's concept works in the early 2000s on pocket carriers for NATO's peripheral naval elements and other Atlantic allies in the oceans. Indeed, they have sold this platform to both Australia and Turkiye. In addition, countries such as Korea and Japan are moving forward with different platforms but based on the same logic.

However, there is a very important detail here, the complementary element of the pocket carrier concept included the use of the STOVL version of the joint strike fighter as a main combatant platform. When the Turkish navy awarded the tender to Navantia, it was actually planning to acquire these aircrafts, but things went in a different direction, planning mistakes were made, political mistakes were made.

This has pushed the Turkish navy to be more flexible in building its fixed-wing air force and to instrumentate its advantages. But if you don't have a STOVL supersonic jet equivalent to the F35B, you have to rebuild the equation again, and you have to go one step further to reach a deterrent sortie capacity.

 

[LegionnairE]

The Navantia Athlas-26000 infrastructure (base model of TCG ANadolu) is essentially a platform designed from scratch as a multi-role ship. In other words, it really includes the LCA concept, and in fact they won the tender because they agreed to open this design in its entirety.

One of the reasons why Navantia has embarked on such a flexible design is probably because of NATO's concept works in the early 2000s on pocket carriers for NATO's peripheral naval elements and other Atlantic allies in the oceans. Indeed, they have sold this platform to both Australia and Turkiye. In addition, countries such as Korea and Japan are moving forward with different platforms but based on the same logic.

However, there is a very important detail here, the complementary element of the pocket carrier concept included the use of the STOVL version of the joint strike fighter as a main combatant platform. When the Turkish navy awarded the tender to Navantia, it was actually planning to acquire these aircrafts, but things went in a different direction, planning mistakes were made, political mistakes were made.

This has pushed the Turkish navy to be more flexible in building its fixed-wing air force and to instrumentate its advantages. But if you don't have a STOVL supersonic jet equivalent to the F35B, you have to rebuild the equation again, and you have to go one step further to reach a deterrent sortie capacity.

I like flexibility but I like Japan's approach much better which is to have dedicated ships for everything, that way personnel trained in LHD operations don't have to also learn how to operate a carrier etc. Everybody knows their job and it's not different bullshit every week. Much more efficient, much more professional.

They have helicopter carriers that ONLY specialize in ASW for example.