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Terrorist attack on Ahmadi mosques in Lahore

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It's time we indulge yet again in introspection and realize the reasons why people become militants and how we have tolerated the existence of his nuisance in out country rather than being in denial, which has been the activity of choice for our citizens for a long time.
SparklingWay : I could'nt agree more. The problem as i see it is "Where do you start". Its easier said then done. Rot, if not treated early tends to entrench deeply -- is what we are seeing now. Consider, India's naxal problem as a example of State's indifference to such a budding rot which has now grown into a full blown menace for us --- we are still trying to match it with bullet's without examining the underlying DNA.

I fear the same for Pakistan -- that the extremist have grown beyond manageable proportion. And that you are trying to match it with Bullet's -- assuming that this are some misguided idiots messed up in head. Yes they are messed up. But how do you contain the system that produces them. Yes, i firmly believe its not a simple case of madrasa's building such idiot's. I believe you will need to have a deep look in your society, your state and your policies, to get to the answer.

Some members suggested revamp in education. Yes, to some extent that will help -- in shaping your near future -- if not in addressing the current mess. This revamp should however should not be farcial but make a honest attempt to imbibe the religious tolerance thought as a core mandate of your society.
 
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First of all R.I.P.

Another catastrophic intelligence failure on the part of the police and intelligence community. Similarly the QRF was too sluggish IMHO. Cameramen from a variety of stations were recording attackers on rooftops for minutes on end, you would have thought someone would have a sniper rifle to hand? Also, seeing officers scurrying around with revolvers whilst facing attackers with AK's and RPG's seemed like a recipe for disaster.

Lastly, a lot of people in this thread have made complaints of calling it a mosque and I similarly side alongside them. Pakistan does not consider this sect as muslims and neither does the wider muslim world either. The only reason it has been called a mosque by other posters is because they are similarly part of the religious minority in Pakistan, not that there's any problem with being from an minority but that doesn't mean you have to water down conservative views that are held by the majority of Pakistani's. For example, Agnostic Muslim has said is from a Shi'ite family.
 
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Yeah and they say Ahemdi's are not patriotic.A officer would not reach position of Lt General in Pakistan Army if he was not patriotic!May god bless his soul.IIRC there was another ahmedi general Lieutenant General Akhtar Hussain Malik who served very well in 1965.He was removed from command at critical juncture otherwise Akhnoor would have been captured and Indian supplies to J&K would've been cuttoff.

That was one of the biggest travesties in the history of Pakistan, he was removed when he could have caused the Indian army major damage and was replaced by Yahya Khan, one of the biggest losers around.

This deserves it's own topic.
 
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First of all R.I.P.

Another catastrophic intelligence failure on the part of the police and intelligence community. Similarly the QRF was too sluggish IMHO. Cameramen from a variety of stations were recording attackers on rooftops for minutes on end, you would have thought someone would have a sniper rifle to hand? Also, seeing officers scurrying around with revolvers whilst facing attackers with AK's and RPG's seemed like a recipe for disaster.
Yeah even i was shocked to see police with shotguns which looked like little toys.They should be given good rifles and sniper guns.A TV report was also shot dead on the spot.
 
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Yeah and they say Ahemdi's are not patriotic.A officer would not reach position of Lt General in Pakistan Army if he was not patriotic!May god bless his soul.IIRC there was another ahmedi general Lieutenant General Akhtar Hussain Malik who served very well in 1965.He was removed from command at critical juncture otherwise Akhnoor would have been captured and Indian supplies to J&K would've been cuttoff.

He was removed from proceeding in Akhnoor in the Chamb-Jurian sector and Ayub had him replaced by his favourite, Yahya Khan.

The other two famous Ahmedi generals being Abdul Ali Malik (brother of Akhtar Hussain Malik) and Iftikhar Janjua. Zafar Chaudhry was a former Air Chief as well.
 
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Yeah even i was shocked to see police with shotguns which looked like little toys.They should be given good rifles and sniper guns.A TV report was also shot dead on the spot.
From the few snippets that I saw I can honestly say it was quite embarrassing. Whether this lack of equipment contributed to the mounting death toll, God only knows.
 
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General Akhtar Hussain Malik was a military juggernaut and the rightful Commander of the Pakistani army, he could have brought victory in 1965 but was removed.

He was killed in a 'car accident' after agreeing to work against Israel in Ankara.

Why are great military men overlooked in Pakistan and losers like Zia and Yayha made COAS over many senior officers. Boggles my mind to this day, even Rahimuddin Khan was not made COAS.
 
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He was killed in a 'car accident' after agreeing to work against Israel in Ankara.

General Akhtar Malik died in 1969 in a car crash in Turkey. It could have been a target-assassination. General Malik had met the Jordanian Ambassador a few days earlier in Ankara. The Ambassador had asked General Malik to help upgrade the Jordanian Army, a job that was accepted by the latter.

It could be Mossad for Israel didn’t want Jordan to acquire the services of a professional general (according to an ex-Army Officer who asked not to be revealed). Israel has been deeply involved in anything that affects its security, especially its neighbours. In 1980, Mossad had eliminated an Egyptian nuclear physicist, Dr Yahia El Meshad, in Paris who had been helping Iraq in setting up its nuclear plant. (Claire Hoy & Victor Ostrovsky By Way of Deception Stoddart Publishing Co.Ltd. Toronto 1990 p.23)

Operation Grand Slam -DAWN Magazine; November 27, 2005
 
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General Akhtar Hussain Malik was a military juggernaut and the rightful Commander of the Pakistani army, he could have brought victory in 1965 but was removed.

He was killed in a 'car accident' after agreeing to work against Israel in Ankara.

Why are great military men overlooked in Pakistan and losers like Zia and Yayha made COAS over many senior officers. Boggles my mind to this day, even Rahimuddin Khan was not made COAS.

Oh Zia was picked by ZA Bhutto and Mush by Sharif over other seniors for the same reason - they were thought to be subservient and hence eliminate the possibility of coups. And thereby hangs a tale...
 
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My first post on the forum..with a sad note I read of two tragic events in both Pakistan and India.
In both cases people of same country against their own folks, is this patriotism???
No sensible person can allow them to carry on, the first fight has to be against them.

Very nice perspective.. welcome to the forum..
 
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Saviours of the day recount tales of horror
By Abdul Manan

May 29, 2010

LAHORE: In a feat of unprecedented bravery, two young Ahmedi men overwhelmed and helped capture two armed terrorists from Baitul Noor in Model Town.

Nabee
l, just 25-years-old, told The Express Tribune that he entered the building at 1:30 pm before the Friday sermon had started. He recalled that the number of worshipers started to swell around 1:45 pm just before the first few gunshots were heard.

“Immediately after I heard gunfire, I saw the back of the head of one of the terrorists who was attempting to shoot Anwer, the security guard. I understood that he would try to enter the facility next and rushed to close the gate at the entrance. To buy us some time, I asked everyone inside the building to rush towards the basement. Most of the people who were killed were older men because they were not too quick on their feet,” said Nabeel.

“One terrorist who appeared to be in his mid-twenties entered the main hall and started firing indiscriminately at doors, windows and worshippers.

Then he hurled hand grenades and the resulting explosion injured almost everyone who had not made it to the basement.

We had a clear view of the injured people in the hall from where we were hiding. Immediately after the grenade explosion, the terrorist started shooting the injured people who were crying and screaming for help,” he added.

“I could see that the terrorist was injured and bleeding from the head.

He shot at least a dozen people before he fell to the ground. I used the opportunity to seize the man, still wearing his suicide vest. Two other men helped me remove his jacket and disarm him. I held him in that position for nearly 35 minutes waiting for police officials so I could hand him over to them,” said Nabeel.

“I had placed a foot just over the man’s neck to make sure he could not move. He kept telling me that he was in a lot of pain and wanted me to remove my foot.

I removed some pressure and asked him why he had killed so many innocent people. He replied that it was his mission to eradicate all infidels from Pakistan. I could not converse with him further after hearing him say that,” stated Nabeel.

Bilal, who is 21-years-old helped capture another terrorist. He was standing on the second floor of the building and had a clear view of the front entrance when he saw armed men walk into the facility.

“The terrorist looked like he was only seventeen. He threw the hand grenade that killed our patron Lt General (retd) Chaudhary Naasir Ahmad. Then he barged through the front door and made his way up the stairs to the second floor. I was hiding behind a couch. The young man was constantly firing. I had a clear view of everything that was happening. Luckily the terrorist did not see me,” said Bilal.

“I knew I had a brief window of opportunity to act. When the terrorist had his back to the place where I was hiding behind, I pounced and grabbed him and yelled to other people to help me overpower him.

The young man was talking in Seraiki, constantly pleading with us to give him a glass of water. I removed the suicide jacket from his torso with the help of a few people,” added Bilal.

“I understand a little Seraiki. I could tell that the boy was constantly abusing and cursing us for capturing him. I had to wait for half an hour before police officials arrived and arrested the young terrorist,” he said.

Published in the Express Tribune, May 29th, 2010.

wow, man. what brave lads.:pakistan: So the two arrested terrorists were subdued by these young men and not the police, huh. They deserve reward and medals for their bravery. Great job.
 
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India has a hand in these terrorist attacks. Make no mistake Pakistan will get its vengance.

YouTube - Musharraf exposing RAW activities infront of Indian

Dont be naive. In this Mushy is accepting that Pakistan does this to India and India does this to Pakistan. He is an ex President of Pakistan, so while his statement about Pakistan doing this to India can be taken as admission, India doing this to Pakistan is simply accusation.

On Vengence, be my guest..
 
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All those pointing fingers without any proof already:-

1. We know that the Punjabi Taliban have accepted responsibility.
2. We know that Punjabi Taliban exist.
3. Govt of Punjab is stating that militants were from RYK, went to Karachi for religious training and trained somewhere in Waziristan and stayed in Raiwind before the attack.
4. We know Karachi madrassas (won't name any) have produced anti-ahmedi violence more than once before. The '53 protests and the entire history is in front of us.
5. There is no reported foreign involvement. Don't bring BS into the thread. And please do not proclaim that the militant was uncircumcised, there was Indian currency in his pocket or that RAW was written on the back of his qameez.
6. Pakistan has been attacked again and we have lost 80 of out fellow countrymen. It's time we indulge yet again in introspection and realize the reasons why people become militants and how we have tolerated the existence of his nuisance in out country rather than being in denial, which has been the activity of choice for our citizens for a long time.

Such a refreshing voice of reason. I salute you sir.. On this day, when both our countries are reeling under the mass murders of our citizens, such sensibilities are most needed and least visible..
 
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Man this is so sick.

I wonder how many lives have been ruined by these assholes.

Pakistan must move toward North Waziristan NOW.

rip to the innocent.
 
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