Taliban apologists: Imran Khan and Shariffs

[Secur]

Yeh jahilon waali soch hai meray bhai, koi faydah nahi hota.

You are not clear at all. You say 'Sharia'. What Sharia? Everyone says Sharia. ISIS says Sharia. The Taliban say Sharia. JI says Sharia. The Qadiyanis say Sharia. The Shias say Sharia. Abbe konsi shariat? Islam ka bera gharak kar diya hai hum saaro ne.

You want to 'finish Israel'? How are you gonna do that? Nuke it? They'll nuke your arse right back. Invade it? The US is gonna storm up your sorry arse in a minute, if you get past the IDF and their American weapons. Proxy war it? Iran's been doing that for decades now, isn't working. Rockets? Not working. Boycott? Useless, they dominate every industry. What then?

Pakistan or any other Muslim country is in no position to do any of that. We need to sort ourselves out and beat the US and Israel in their own game, which is called international geopolitics. No other way to do it.

The second, we enforce a particular brand of the religion, these el bastardos will be fighting amongst themselves to get their own brand enforced as they wont agree with each other. I have seen the unity of Mullahs. Jis din yeh aik chand dekh len poore mulk mein (which happens to be a question of fact and is clear, visible and leaves none in doubt except those who want to), us din in ke liye aik Khalifa bhi dekh len ge.

 

[Zarvan]

Yeh jahilon waali soch hai meray bhai, koi faydah nahi hota.

You are not clear at all. You say 'Sharia'. What Sharia? Everyone says Sharia. ISIS says Sharia. The Taliban say Sharia. JI says Sharia. The Qadiyanis say Sharia. The Shias say Sharia. Abbe konsi shariat? Islam ka bera gharak kar diya hai hum saaro ne.

You want to 'finish Israel'? How are you gonna do that? Nuke it? They'll nuke your arse right back. Invade it? The US is gonna storm up your sorry arse in a minute, if you get past the IDF and their American weapons. Proxy war it? Iran's been doing that for decades now, isn't working. Rockets? Not working. Boycott? Useless, they dominate every industry. What then?

Pakistan or any other Muslim country is in no position to do any of that. We need to sort ourselves out and beat the US and Israel in their own game, which is called international geopolitics. No other way to do it.

Well if your countries want to remain under cover of impoten.. than militants will keep rising to and will try to take on Israel and USA on there own and you will be not able to stop them. And form 50 bigger Ulema council from all major sects and ask them to come up with as many common points they can and first implement those.

 

[TankMan]

@TankMan You are talking to a broken tape, so dont waste your time, as you will get a single reply everytime (in essence and well mostly in the same words also).

Yeah, sure feels like a waste of time but I intend to try a little, don't like giving up so fast. The issue is that those kinds of narratives appeal to the generally uneducated population more than logic and reason, which is clearly detrimental to our society and our country.

They should look at countries like China, how they developed. China didn't have to destroy Israel or India to advance - it just had to be reasonable, and now it has become capable enough to stand up against Israel, India and even the US. I believe that Pakistan has potential, it just needs the right mindset.

 

[Zarvan]

@TankMan You are talking to a broken tape, so dont waste your time, as you will get a single reply everytime (in essence and well mostly in the same words also).

Yes you are here to talk crap and waste time go ahead.

 

[TankMan]

than militants will keep rising to and will try to take on Israel and USA on there own and you will be not able to stop them.

They can take on Israel and US all they want in a legitimate resistance but we shouldn't have any par in it. And besides, they never do that. It's never legitimate. Rarely military targets. Groups like TTP always go for terror tactics and killing innocents.

Why are they attacking Pakistani children if they are just trying to take on Israel and USA? Doesn't make sense. Our responsibility is not to destroy Israel. Our responsibility is to protect our own children and ensure that no one else's children are killed by our people.

And form 50 bigger Ulema council from all major sects and ask them to come up with as many common points they can and first implement those.

We've seen how well that worked with the ''Council of Islamic Ideology''. The first and only thing they did was legalizing child marriages and stopping women from ''objecting'' to their husbands' polygamy. Pathetic.

 

[Zarvan]

They can take on Israel and US all they want in a legitimate resistance but we shouldn't have any par in it. And besides, they never do that. It's never legitimate. Rarely military targets. Groups like TTP always go for terror tactics and killing innocents.

Why are they attacking Pakistani children if they are just trying to take on Israel and USA? Doesn't make sense. Our responsibility is not to destroy Israel. Our responsibility is to protect our own children and ensure that no one else's children are killed by our people.


We've seen how well that worked with the ''Council of Islamic Ideology''. The first and only thing they did was legalizing child marriages. Pathetic.

Palestine and other issues are issues of Muslims and if Governments will not start Jehad through there Armed forces than you should not cry on birth of groups like TTP and when you will have Sifarshi head of of CII than don't cry and Ulema had to be brought in other wise people will rise and try there own version so better 50 major Ulemas come up with let say 50 common points to be enforced as a start.

 

[TankMan]

Palestine and other issues are issues of Muslims and if Governments will not start Jehad

You don't even know the meaning of 'Jehad'. Jihad is a struggle. The best Jihad we can do is develop our countries and challenge Israel politically - we can not do that militarily.
You want to see the results of the 'Jehad' you preach? Look at Syria. Look at Lebanon. Look at Egypt. That's what you get. Israel and the US can not be challenged like that - careful politics are required, along with unity. How will you challenge Israel when you're fighting among eachother?

than you should not cry on birth of groups like TTP

So we should sit and let them murder our children? Why don't we all jump off a mountain (K2 perhaps) instead?

Very relevant:

 

[Secur]

Yeah, sure feels like a waste of time but I intend to try a little, don't like giving up so fast. The issue is that those kinds of narratives appeal to the generally uneducated population more than logic and reason, which is clearly detrimental to our society and our country.

They should look at countries like China, how they developed. China didn't have to destroy Israel or India to advance - it just had to be reasonable, and now it has become capable enough to stand up against Israel, India and even the US. I believe that Pakistan has potential, it just needs the right mindset.

Well, I tried for half a year, the tape continues unhindered and undeterred even when confronted by superior logic and facts, its an exercise in futility, so why learn the hard way, bon ami? You want to get an idea of the lame and senseless narratives that the general populace believes, just go to the ARY page on facebook and check the comments section of the latest news (at the moment mostly concerning the Red Mosque's terrorist Abdul Aziz and terrorism in the country). Its my personal belief and believe me, I dont like it, that nothing can be done regarding these people. These radicalized people, extremists and terrorists sympathasizers/apologists will deny everything you throw at them which they cant tackle with their half backed logic and God-knows-from-where facts. If you tell them that the Taliban (they love their brief stunt in Afghanistan and term it as adl ka nizam and true Islam) themselves committed massacres and usurped human rights during their rule and went against the religion, they wont believe it. You tell them that extremism and radicalization is the country's biggest problem, they will say no its America/India/Israel/UK (sometimes Martians are blamed too) creating troubles in Pakistan and no such problem is there, despite the truth performing a one finger salute in front of their eyes. If you tell them, that its their own countrymen blowing up, killing innocents, shoving their interpretation down other's throats and fighting against the state, they will say no these are pious Mujahids of Allah who are striving for the religion and just a few infamous "deadly" attacks are carried by those, who wish to damage their reputation. You ask them to get their children (normally its a whole football team plus the supporting staff) vaccinized, they will say that you and the West are conspiring against them and the polio vaccine itself causes fatal diseases including sterilization. You give them a news from the media, soon you will be told of the Jews controlling the world media and hence it being not reliable and trustworthy, they rather only rely on the pamphlets given to them after prayers and a few Mullah mouthpieces. You ask them to work for their better future and get their children some freaking wordly education and suddenly you will be reminded of "O quam cito transit gloria mundi" (the glory of the world fleets me fast by), of the inevitable death, of the ending nature of the world, of eventual decline. There is no arguing with people who have stopped listening to the reason and who's answer to every question is either a foreign country or Jews or Liar or wrong it didn't happen. Why administer a medicine to the dead then, eh?

Look at a westernized, capitalist and developed country which strives for worldly glory, excuse me, they rather jump off the cliff. The aim of their lives isn't upward social mobility or better education for their children or a better future than they inherited, its simply destruction of U.S. and Israel and usually that involves killing their own Muslim countrymen to (as the bizarre logic? goes) avenge the Muslims that are dying in distant lands.

 

[A.M.]

Palestine and other issues are issues of Muslims and if Governments will not start Jehad through there Armed forces than you should not cry on birth of groups like TTP and when you will have Sifarshi head of of CII than don't cry and Ulema had to be brought in other wise people will rise and try there own version so better 50 major Ulemas come up with let say 50 common points to be enforced as a start.

Let me know when you arrive in the 21st century.

 

[Zarvan]

You don't even know the meaning of 'Jehad'. Jihad is a struggle. The best Jihad we can do is develop our countries and challenge Israel politically - we can not do that militarily.
You want to see the results of the 'Jehad' you preach? Look at Syria. Look at Lebanon. Look at Egypt. That's what you get. Israel and the US can not be challenged like that - careful politics are required, along with unity. How will you challenge Israel when you're fighting among eachother?

So we should sit and let them murder our children? Why don't we all jump off a mountain (K2 perhaps) instead?

Very relevant:
View attachment 178569

O for GOD sake I know meaning of Jehad one major Jehad is by weapons against enemies of Islam and Pakistan and if Muslims lands are not liberated by our Armed Forces than militants will try it and that would create chaos so our governments start dong there official Islamic Job.

 

[TankMan]

Well, I tried for half a year, the tape continues unhindered and undeterred even when confronted by superior logic and facts, its an exercise in futility, so why learn the hard way, bon ami? You want to get an idea of the lame and senseless narratives that the general populace believes, just go to the ARY page on facebook and check the comments section of the latest news (at the moment mostly concerning the Red Mosque's terrorist Abdul Aziz and terrorism in the country). Its my personal belief and believe me, I dont like it, that nothing can be done regarding these people. These radicalized people, extremists and terrorists sympathasizers/apologists will deny everything you throw at them which they cant tackle with their half backed logic and God-knows-from-where facts. If you tell them that the Taliban (they love their brief stunt in Afghanistan and term it as adl ka nizam and true Islam) themselves committed massacres and usurped human rights during their rule and went against the religion, they wont believe it. You tell them that extremism and radicalization is the country's biggest problem, they will say no its America/India/Israel/UK (sometimes Martians are blamed too) creating troubles in Pakistan and no such problem is there, despite the truth performing a one finger salute in front of their eyes. If you tell them, that its their own countrymen blowing up, killing innocents, shoving their interpretation down other's throats and fighting against the state, they will say no these are pious Mujahids of Allah who are striving for the religion and just a few infamous "deadly" attacks are carried by those, who wish to damage their reputation. You ask them to get their children (normally its a whole football team plus the supporting staff) vaccinized, they will say that you and the West are conspiring against them and the polio vaccine itself causes fatal diseases including sterilization. You give them a news from the media, soon you will be told of the Jews controlling the world media and hence it being not reliable and trustworthy, they rather only rely on the pamphlets given to them after prayers and a few Mullah mouthpieces. You ask them to work for their better future and get their children some freaking wordly education and suddenly you will be reminded of "O quam cito transit gloria mundi" (the glory of the world fleets me fast by), of the inevitable death, of the ending nature of the world, of eventual decline. There is no arguing with people who have stopped listening to the reason and who's answer to every question is either a foreign country or Jews or Liar or wrong it didn't happen. Why administer a medicine to the dead then, eh?

Look at a westernized, capitalist and developed country which strives for worldly glory, excuse me, they rather jump off the cliff. The aim of their lives isn't upward social mobility or better education for their children or a better future than they inherited, its simply destruction of U.S. and Israel and usually that involves killing their own Muslim countrymen to (as the bizarre logic? goes) avenge the Muslims that are dying in distant lands.

Very true, all of it. Its a sad state of affairs.
We could try to eliminate the source somehow, government regulations against extremist mullahs and strict regulations on education (especially religious). But then, the government is made up of these people - its all intertwined in an abysmal manner.

Perhaps we can hope that someday, Pakistan would undergo a transformation similar to what Turkey went through.
I generally disagree with a lot of Ataturk's ideals, but it undoubtedly worked pretty well for Turkey. He managed to direct his country towards the right path, which is exactly whats needed here in Pakistan. But I don't see any Ataturk in Pakistan, not for a long time.

God help us all

 

[Zarvan]

Let me know when you arrive in the 21st century.

I am in 21st century you want live the life which Arabs used to live before Islam was hard to make a difference between humans and Animals

 

[Zarvan]

Well, I tried for half a year, the tape continues unhindered and undeterred even when confronted by superior logic and facts, its an exercise in futility, so why learn the hard way, bon ami? You want to get an idea of the lame and senseless narratives that the general populace believes, just go to the ARY page on facebook and check the comments section of the latest news (at the moment mostly concerning the Red Mosque's terrorist Abdul Aziz and terrorism in the country). Its my personal belief and believe me, I dont like it, that nothing can be done regarding these people. These radicalized people, extremists and terrorists sympathasizers/apologists will deny everything you throw at them which they cant tackle with their half backed logic and God-knows-from-where facts. If you tell them that the Taliban (they love their brief stunt in Afghanistan and term it as adl ka nizam and true Islam) themselves committed massacres and usurped human rights during their rule and went against the religion, they wont believe it. You tell them that extremism and radicalization is the country's biggest problem, they will say no its America/India/Israel/UK (sometimes Martians are blamed too) creating troubles in Pakistan and no such problem is there, despite the truth performing a one finger salute in front of their eyes. If you tell them, that its their own countrymen blowing up, killing innocents, shoving their interpretation down other's throats and fighting against the state, they will say no these are pious Mujahids of Allah who are striving for the religion and just a few infamous "deadly" attacks are carried by those, who wish to damage their reputation. You ask them to get their children (normally its a whole football team plus the supporting staff) vaccinized, they will say that you and the West are conspiring against them and the polio vaccine itself causes fatal diseases including sterilization. You give them a news from the media, soon you will be told of the Jews controlling the world media and hence it being not reliable and trustworthy, they rather only rely on the pamphlets given to them after prayers and a few Mullah mouthpieces. You ask them to work for their better future and get their children some freaking wordly education and suddenly you will be reminded of "O quam cito transit gloria mundi" (the glory of the world fleets me fast by), of the inevitable death, of the ending nature of the world, of eventual decline. There is no arguing with people who have stopped listening to the reason and who's answer to every question is either a foreign country or Jews or Liar or wrong it didn't happen. Why administer a medicine to the dead then, eh?

Look at a westernized, capitalist and developed country which strives for worldly glory, excuse me, they rather jump off the cliff. The aim of their lives isn't upward social mobility or better education for their children or a better future than they inherited, its simply destruction of U.S. and Israel and usually that involves killing their own Muslim countrymen to (as the bizarre logic? goes) avenge the Muslims that are dying in distant lands.

The so called solution you have told here would be implemented on secular traitors.

 

[TankMan]

O for GOD sake I know meaning of Jehad one major Jehad is by weapons against enemies of Islam and Pakistan and if Muslims lands are not liberated by our Armed Forces than militants will try it and that would create chaos so our governments start dong there official Islamic Job.

There is a specific word for that 'Islamic Job' and its called Qital. And I've already shown you how flawed that idea of 'Muslim lands' is. Hum ne aawain theka liya huwa hai Muslamano ka, khud maazoor hain wo log? Kabhi Arabiyon ki shakkal dekhi hai? Woh kyun nahi karte Jihad o qital? Hum kyoon bewakoofon ki tarah apne bachon ka khoon bahaen?

I agree that we should have responsibility towards Muslims and that we should be working for them, but Muslims aren't united at all. The only viable option for us to help Muslims around the world is by developing ourselves and setting a precedent for other Muslim countries to follow.

The so called solution you have told here would be implemented on secular traitors.

Yeah right, 'secular traitors' like Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, Quaid-e-Azm Muhammad Ali Jinnah and Allama Muhammad Iqbal?
There's nothing wrong with being moderate - what if I don't want to be a Barelvi or a Deobandi? What If I don't want to do taqleed? What if I don't want to join a sect and spew hatred towards fellow Muslims? What If I want to be just a Muslim, a neutral Muslim, a logical Muslim, the way Allah has commanded us to be? That makes me either a Wahabi/Salafi or a Secular Traitor, and people have called me both - a lot.

You know you're saying something right and logical when people call you both secular and religious extremist, at the same time. Logic burns extremists, they just have to resort to name-calling.

 

[Screambowl]

Imran Khan is.

He used to (maybe still) loves taliban and he also declined to ever offer post of finance ministry to a well known economist, who is Ahmadi. He first said he'll offer him the post, but bowed down to pressure.

Impressing the pathans, which is vote bank politics as Miya ji has strong support in Punjab, I heard he is called as Sher e Punjab. Miya sahab had soft corner for taliban during early 90's by establishing Nifaz-e-Shariat Committee , but that was temporary, during Soviet era. There is no much clue what Miya ji really see Taliban as( TTP)

Yeah right, 'secular traitors' like Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, Quaid-e-Azm Muhammad Ali Jinnah and Allama Muhammad Iqbal?
There's nothing wrong with being moderate - what if I don't want to be a Barelvi or a Deobandi? What If I don't want to do taqleed? What if I don't want to join a sect and spew hatred towards fellow Muslims? What If I want to be just a Muslim, a neutral Muslim, a logical Muslim, the way Allah has commanded us to be? That makes me either a Wahabi/Salafi or a Secular Traitor, and people have called me both - a lot.

You know you're saying something right and logical when people call you both secular and religious extremist, at the same time. Logic burns extremists, they just have to resort to name-calling.

Exactly, but in the mean time people do not wish to accept the larger dimension of facts. People are still not aware what Deobandi, Salafist, and Secular is. And rise of need of all these in their time period, more of a political than a religious thought. Implementing the similar model of sect in 21st century when there are no Britishers, or no Mongols, would be hitting one's feet on axe.