Taimur: Pakistan's ICBM?

[rastor]

I guess that's the point I'm trying to make. ICBMs are good only if you have enough of them. Otherwise the response will be overwhelming against you. Is Pakistan's economy bigger than the USSR's in it's heyday? If not, then it's a waste of time and money. Pakistan really has only one threat perception today - India.

Even in the future, I don't see Pakistan as having global reach - no offense, but very few nations have had that reach. UK and USSR both used to just like the US has today.

So when you start building ICBMs with that range you will draw attention and perhaps a pre-emptive response and it won't be India. You can already hit them now..

I would speculate that the whole ICBM by pak is nothing more than bluster. ICBMs are extremely expensive and they require entire industries to make almost akin to aircraft carriers. Pak has neither the kind of industry nor the money or maybe even the stomach for such. Also the there is the factor that pak missile capability is not completely indigenous in development.

ICBMs are different from the medium range missiles. Even the advanced ICBMs with the west have an accuracy of about 60%. Pak's planners know their priorities and its highly unlikely they would devout their limited resources to a doomed enterprise and even if they do its even more unlikely that they would get anywhere near a working ICBM given pak's techno-industrial infrastructure.

My 2 cents.

 

[Chanakyaa]

brave hindu will eat and then fight.. food will make u brave hmm... they will not fight if there is no food... i dont want to waste my time on ur stupid stuff ... you are right...

Firstly It will be Indian Army not The "Hindu" ( as u say ) as Indian Army has Hindus,Muslims,Sikhs and Christians ... all - Indians.

Secondly, Forex and Economy are the reasons why Paklistan has not be able to match up India in terms of the "Numbers".

On contrary China Beats India on the Same Front due to the same reason, They have More Money and Thus can Make Far more Better Defences.

USSR, had the Superb Massive Northern Fleet unmatched by even USA but after the split, it was Forex and Money that ceased it and Now it can just bark but not bite.. USA has gone Miles ahead.

US doesent have very great Tech ( in 1950s both started from V2s in the Missile Race ) in the First Place but with over $500 Billion Budget you can simply do anything.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I would agree with you up to a point. No we did not forsee a hostile Iran till 1979 ( 30 years ago), about the same time the "new act in the great game" - Afghanistan started playing itself out. The USSR collapsed under it's own weight. We never had to fight or defeat them. Our ICBMs were mostly for USSR and it's clients, which is now non-existent. That's why we still continue START talks with them. Even today both nations can destroy the world several times over.

I guess that's the point I'm trying to make. ICBMs are good only if you have enough of them. Otherwise the response will be overwhelming against you. Is Pakistan's economy bigger than the USSR's in it's heyday? If not, then it's a waste of time and money. Pakistan really has only one threat perception today - India.

Even in the future, I don't see Pakistan as having global reach - no offense, but very few nations have had that reach. UK and USSR both used to just like the US has today.

So when you start building ICBMs with that range you will draw attention and perhaps a pre-emptive response and it won't be India. You can already hit them now..

Sir, may I ask who is to be hit by Israel with their Jericho II & III ICBMs ??? All its enemies sit within a few hundred KMs from its borders, then why it is getting a capability which can hit Europe and even US tomorrow, even when it has sufficient capability to annihilate its Arab neighbors who are its enemies ?? Has US or Europe asked them or shown any worries why they are getting these ICBMs ??? Doesn't seems to have a single concern being raised, then why about us ?? We have threatened no one, then why we will have eye brows raised ???

To me Israeli ICBMs crossing the 10,000KM mark shows they are thinking Europe and US to be future enemies as there is no other reason/logic to make ICBMs which can potentially target countries which are friendly with Israel today, but Israel may be thinking something else.

Plus, i did not said we need to raise an Army of ICBMs right now, but keep working on it would be a good idea and mastering this technology would not be a bad. Now we may not be able sustain such kind of force, nor may be having an enemy that far away, but as i said no one knows about the future, who knows tomorrow both things become a reality.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I would speculate that the whole ICBM by pak is nothing more than bluster. ICBMs are extremely expensive and they require entire industries to make almost akin to aircraft carriers. Pak has neither the kind of industry nor the money or maybe even the stomach for such. Also the there is the factor that pak missile capability is not completely indigenous in development.

ICBMs are different from the medium range missiles. Even the advanced ICBMs with the west have an accuracy of about 60%. Pak's planners know their priorities and its highly unlikely they would devout their limited resources to a doomed enterprise and even if they do its even more unlikely that they would get anywhere near a working ICBM given pak's techno-industrial infrastructure.

My 2 cents.

Same old ignorant remarks and ignorance about Pakistan, its capabilities and intentions.

I do hope you google up and see how Indian analysts got surprised with the babur cruise missile launch.

I wonder, if we are so pathetic, how come we made the Babar CM, Ra'ad ALCM, the Hatf series missiles.

Don't give the technology transfer BS, we all know that.

Making all these stuff and improving them is itself something which speaks for itself.

 

[manglasiva]

but as i said no one knows about the future, who knows tomorrow both things become a reality.

If u plan for the future build the economy and law and order first...the think of ICBM and starwars later... NO OFFENCE !!!!

 

[Adios Amigo]

Well in fact i am not sure about the need for an ICBM right now, but future as TK and PAFace have pointed is unpredictable. And there is no doubt in my mind that such a program is underway if not already completed.Even if it is completed Pakistan will not go for Testing, rather wait for appropriate time. However some people are suggesting that Pakistan don't need an ICBM, and specially pointing out to wards Israel as an enemy against whom it might be used and the mighty Israel would vaporise us.
For them i would say our ICBM program is not Israel specific, and how the heck they would they vaporise use??? means they already
possess and ICBMs(Namrid, correct me if I'm wrong) and the big babies provided by uncle Sam. This further validates the need of such a program by Pakistan.
However having that said, i would like to remind my (young) countrymen, we need not to create animosity with any country Specially Israel, with out good reasons. I know some of you might point out the atrocities carried out by Israel against Palestine. The best and the only way to help Palistanies is moral support and raise our voice on every international forum for their rights. Other then that we cannot do much but only harm to ourselves.
Secondly Pan-Islamism is failed idea, which never worked out in the first place.Specially with corrupt, and morallyARAB leadership, who them-self enjoy cordial relationship with Israel and Uncle Sam, it stands no chance to be practically implemented. We should only protect and work for our Interests, as other wise countries do, rest is history.

TO Our Indian Fellows
I can understand your extreme desires and wishes that Pakistan should not/must not develop an ICBM. and the reasons given such as world pressures and bad economy etc, Let me me assure you, if we really need such a program we would not give s h i t about that and develop it. secondly regarding economy, i would like you to count our Ballistic and Cruse Missile programs, That would give you a fair idea of how much infrastructure is developed regarding this sector and the addition of one more platform wouldn't be a problem. And if we can develop all these plus a Nuclear program with even worse economy then now, it wont be much of a trouble building an ICBM.

secondly you guys suggesting Israel have nothing to do with us, so we shouldn't develop an ICBM as it would be direct threat to them. well let me correct you on this, plz go and check on history books, what were Israels fighters were doing on Indian airbases during kargil War, and secondly check out who they are calling their First enemy these days??? Is it Iran or Pakistan???
Thats why the need for an ICBM is more then ever now, this would ensure that in times of next Indo-Pak conflict, Israel stays back at home.

lastly don't be bothered about it, we are not gonna test it any soon, we are in no hurry and would wait for the appropriate time , as it was provided by you guys in 98 buy conducting nuclear tests.Thanks to you guys for that





adiós

 

[TaimiKhan]

If u plan for the future build the economy and law and order first...the think of ICBM and starwars later... NO OFFENCE !!!!

No offence, but would be better to give this Idea to your own govt too, who are making ICBMs with much funfair compared to us. Our ICBM program isn't even officially recognized, just rumors, while yours is recognized, so better ask your govt to invest in economy and poverty alleviation then making ICBMs.

No offence though.

 

[Zob]

I would speculate that the whole ICBM by pak is nothing more than bluster. ICBMs are extremely expensive and they require entire industries to make almost akin to aircraft carriers. Pak has neither the kind of industry nor the money or maybe even the stomach for such. Also the there is the factor that pak missile capability is not completely indigenous in development.

ICBMs are different from the medium range missiles. Even the advanced ICBMs with the west have an accuracy of about 60%. Pak's planners know their priorities and its highly unlikely they would devout their limited resources to a doomed enterprise and even if they do its even more unlikely that they would get anywhere near a working ICBM given pak's techno-industrial infrastructure.

My 2 cents.

this is EXACTLY what the indians said when we pakistan was made in 1947...pakistan doesn't have the infrastructure to survive long!

when we started our nuclear program indians thought the same! and yet we made our bomb!

ICBM might be made but the only valid reason you gave is that ICBMs are not really accurate & are more or less a power projection weapon that we don't need because clearly we don't have any intentions to be a "super power" our aim is defence of the FATHERLAND at all costs from all threats!

 

[grey boy 2]

If u plan for the future build the economy and law and order first...the think of ICBM and starwars later... NO OFFENCE !!!!

Pakistan have every right to develop ICBM for defence sake.

Look who is talking, do you remember how you Indians response

when Chinese criticize India for spending billions in weapons but

no money for the poor? Answer=Defence is the top priority.

BTW, telling everyone India is rich was a myth, let me give you a

little reality check;

My hometown "HongKong"

Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
$182.5 billion (31 December 2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 8


India Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
$254 billion (31 December 2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 5

When a tiny city of China with a population of 7 million could take on

a country with population of 1.2 billion, you ain't rich, but in contrast,

"extreme poor".
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

 

[rastor]

Same old ignorant remarks and ignorance about Pakistan, its capabilities and intentions.

I do hope you google up and see how Indian analysts got surprised with the babur cruise missile launch.

I wonder, if we are so pathetic, how come we made the Babar CM, Ra'ad ALCM, the Hatf series missiles.

Don't give the technology transfer BS, we all know that.
Making all these stuff and improving them is itself something which speaks for itself.

Out of all the points I raised the one about pak receiving help w.r.t missile tech seems to have touched a nerve here. I see India being pretty much the same place as pak in missile tech. Both are nowhere near ICBMs. I don't need to do any google search because I know pak has a decent missile program cruise or ballistic. My point is ICBMs are a whole different ball game. I was hoping for inputs from experts on the points I raised about ICBM. Maybe I should have worded it differently given the sentiments in this board.

 

[amarnath]

Out of all the points I raised the one about pak receiving help w.r.t missile tech seems to have touched a nerve here. I see India being pretty much the same place as pak in missile tech. Both are nowhere near ICBMs. I don't need to do any google search because I know pak has a decent missile program cruise or ballistic. My point is ICBMs are a whole different ball game. I was hoping for inputs from experts on the points I raised about ICBM. Maybe I should have worded it differently given the sentiments in this board.

When you research on missile programs, Teake air to air missiles ASTRA, Under water missiles like sagarika and ABM tech, do you think pakistan has these stuffs, Even in ballestic missiles, India have many varients Tested, We have the worlds fastest Cruise missile... And we have 3 ICBM programs running and AD-1 and AD-2 which can intercept an ICBM....

 

[Maddy2105]

Pakistan have every right to develop ICBM for defence sake.

Look who is talking, do you remember how you Indians response

when Chinese criticize India for spending billions in weapons but

no money for the poor? Answer=Defence is the top priority.

BTW, telling everyone India is rich was a myth, let me give you a

little reality check;

My hometown "HongKong"

Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
$182.5 billion (31 December 2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 8


India Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
$254 billion (31 December 2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 5

When a tiny city of China with a population of 7 million could take on

a country with population of 1.2 billion, you ain't rich, but in contrast,

"extreme poor".
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

You mind spending those 180 billion on the 700 million rural population in china..Sorry to burst your bubble..in comparison to HongKong all those 700 million rural population in china are extremely poor.

 

[amarnath]

Pakistan have every right to develop ICBM for defence sake.

Look who is talking, do you remember how you Indians response

when Chinese criticize India for spending billions in weapons but

no money for the poor? Answer=Defence is the top priority.

BTW, telling everyone India is rich was a myth, let me give you a

little reality check;

My hometown "HongKong"

Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
$182.5 billion (31 December 2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 8


India Reserves of foreign exchange and gold:
$254 billion (31 December 2008 est.)
country comparison to the world: 5

When a tiny city of China with a population of 7 million could take on

a country with population of 1.2 billion, you ain't rich, but in contrast,

"extreme poor".
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

These Facts which u just mentioned has nothing to do with the poverty of that country, This just decides the value of your nations currency, For a population like your, for the amount of currency running in your economy, You have to show the liquidity, We dont have much currency running thats why we are still 45.8rs behing US doller, We cannot maintain higher liquidity...

Even then India is ranked 5th in this and way too above USA and UK, but does that Mean that USA and UK are poorer than India?

China has 2,273,000
India has only 287,374
USA has 83,375

So according to your predictions USA must be way too poorer than India.

 

[grey boy 2]

No need to get too emotional, my dear Indian friends,

Lets the facts do the talking, OK ? I will only response those with

source. Check it out yourself, facts don't lie.
India on various Global ranking studies India Fact Book
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html

By the way, lets not derail the thread, why you Indians are so against

Pakistan developing ICBM ?

 

[amarnath]

No need to get too emotional, my dear Indian friends,

Lets the facts do the talking, OK ? I will only response those with

source. Check it out yourself, facts don't lie.
India on various Global ranking studies India Fact Book
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html

By the way, lets not derail the thread, why you Indians are so against

Pakistan developing ICBM ?

All right then Have this source if u want....
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2188rank.html