T-50's Canopy

[TLCBonaparte]

Hi, I am new and don't know much about Aviation, I am just curious about something, hopefully this doesn't sound foolish.

I am curious about T-50's Canopy, as it has metal frame, how come it is a stealth plane? Won't the frame ruin detection?

 

[ptldM3]

No explanation needed.

 

[Luftwaffe]

No explanation needed.

Why no explanation is needed, what do you want to prove by posting a pic instead of not answering to a direct question with a direct answer.

 

[kaykay]

Metal frame canopy on prototypes is a minor issue. They can change it whenever they want on production fighters. But afaik, FGFA(Indian variant of Pak-Fa) will not come with metal frame canopy as it's one of the improvement out of total 46 improvements on Pak-Fa for FGFA.
PS: I am no expert on this. I might be wrong too.

 

[gambit]

Hi, I am new and don't know much about Aviation, I am just curious about something, hopefully this doesn't sound foolish.

I am curious about T-50's Canopy, as it has metal frame, how come it is a stealth plane? Won't the frame ruin detection?

A metal frame does not mean 'un-stealthy'. Yes, it is true that metals, including alloys and other composites that have high metallic contents, do reflect more than other materials such as wood or cloth, but all 'stealth' designs have shaping as dominant method for 'stealth' rather than materials.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

A metal frame does not mean 'un-stealthy'. Yes, it is true that metals, including alloys and other composites that have high metallic contents, do reflect more than other materials such as wood or cloth, but all 'stealth' designs have shaping as dominant method for 'stealth' rather than materials.

That is a perfect explanation.
If materials were the sole component, then wooden or GRP craft would have been invisible on Marine Radars. They are not.

 

[gambit]

That is a perfect explanation.
If materials were the sole component, then wooden or GRP craft would have been invisible on Marine Radars. They are not.

A bird's feathering layers are nature's radar absorbers.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

A bird's feathering layers are nature's radar absorbers.

Did'nt specifically know that.
But then, where are Nature's Radars?

 

[UKBengali]

A metal frame does not mean 'un-stealthy'. Yes, it is true that metals, including alloys and other composites that have high metallic contents, do reflect more than other materials such as wood or cloth, but all 'stealth' designs have shaping as dominant method for 'stealth' rather than materials.

Which means that US dominance in stealth cannot be that much more than others.

All countries know what shape US stealth aircraft are and can just copy the basic shape.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Which means that US dominance in stealth cannot be that much more than others.

All countries know what shape US stealth aircraft are and can just copy the basic shape.

As I understand it; its the measurement of the RCS precisely (and its consequent relationship to design) that is important and the USA is probably far ahead in this respect.
Materials are not immaterial though.
Finally even RAM coatings is also important; are all countries equally advanced in this respect?

All said; @gambit will be able to explain all of those aspects better.

 

[gambit]

Which means that US dominance in stealth cannot be that much more than others.

All countries know what shape US stealth aircraft are and can just copy the basic shape.

You are dreaming. Read this...

Fundamentals of Stealth Design & Concepts of RCS Reduction | Page 2

If it was that easy to shape to match even the F-117, the world would be awash in 'stealth' fighters by now. But why not?

 

[UKBengali]

You are dreaming. Read this...

Fundamentals of Stealth Design & Concepts of RCS Reduction | Page 2

If it was that easy to shape to match even the F-117, the world would be awash in 'stealth' fighters by now. But why not?

It is hard enough to make non-stealth aircraft and that is why the world is not awash in "stealth" fighters.

Only 5 countries in the world can design and produce complete 4th generation fighters - US, Russia, China, France and the UK.

China seems to have basically copied the F-22 and F-35 shapes in the J-20/J-31 thanks to the US.

 

[ptldM3]

Why no explanation is needed, what do you want to prove by posting a pic instead of not answering to a direct question with a direct answer.

I have spoke about it many times over, but since you are trying to act like a smarty with your passive aggressive attitude I will explain it again because apparently you think I can not answer.

Over and over we hear the metal frame argument brought up again; however, both the f-117 as well as the B-2 have the framed canopy and they do just fine. Metal or no metal the purpose of a canopy on the mentioned aircraft is to prevent electro magnetic energy from penetrating inside. So why would it matter if there is some alloy or composite frame? Is the rest of the aircraft not made up of alloy or composites?

So material composition means little, the other argument against the metal framed canopy is the fact that it creates a seem, yet all aircraft have seems weather it be in a canopy or a refueling probe, an air brake or a slat, aileron or a weapons bay. Someone can argue the T-50 has an extra seem in the canopy but I can argue that the T-50 doesn't have an air brake, and so fourth.

 

[DrSomnath999]

pak-fa is going to have gold coated canopy

i quote

Golden skies

The PAK-FA pilot is going to be surrounded by gold at all times as NPP Technologia enterprise in Russia’s Obninsk has developed a gold coating for the cockpit which reduces radar’s ability to detect the equipment by 250 times. The coating also protects pilot from high-energy radar pulses and solar radiation.The coating consists not only of gold, but a combination of various metals, including stanum and indium, applied on the cockpit with a specially developed magnetron installation.The NPP Technologia enterprise, which also produces the majority of composite elements for the Pak-FA hull, says all systems will are go to supply all future 5G jets with golden cockpits once industrial production of the aircraft starts in 2015.

Rarefied air: Russian 5G fighters boast cutting-edge life support systems — RT News


I hope this ends the story here for everyome

CHEERS

 

[TLCBonaparte]

It is hard enough to make non-stealth aircraft and that is why the world is not awash in "stealth" fighters.

Only 5 countries in the world can design and produce complete 4th generation fighters - US, Russia, China, France and the UK.

China seems to have basically copied the F-22 and F-35 shapes in the J-20/J-31 thanks to the US.

I don't think J-20 is a copy, check this video, it seems to be an improvement over F-22 frame.