Support for Nato membership soars to 76% in Finland

[jhungary]

But if Russians do not cross the border, what Finns could do?

They can bomb the site where the rocket is being fired.

They can even send troop into Ukraine and take care of Russia from there.

They can do a lot of stuff if Russia initiate hostilities. Something Russian do not have real mean to counter seeing how they perform in Ukraine.

An equally important question is what is the percent support in Germany, France, Italy, Spain for adding Finland and Sweden to NATO?

How many Parisians or Neapolitans want to die for Helsinki or Stockholm? Do we have numbers on that? Surely these things matter in a democracy.

Most European are okay with Finland and Sweden joining, that's boosted their own defence. That is the reason why Stoltenberg openly invite Sweden and Finland to join, which was not done in many case of NATO membership before. The only one that would be a hold out is the country that with Parliament debate to support said action. Namely US, Canada and UK, and the majority of common are for it (from Johnson), the majority of Canadian Parliament are for it (from Trudeau) , probably the only potential holdout is US senate. But most republican senate already openly said they will support a motion for Sweden and Finland to join NATO.

 

[jhungary]

The western media has certainly come together, as has public opinion in the US which is safely tucked away an ocean away.

If popular opinion is so strong and certain in France and Germany, why not conduct polls and release results? Normally in such matters, we get poll results like hotcakes every week.

Because there are no need for a Parliamentary debate for France and Germany to allow anyone into NATO, their vote come from their own head of government, not from any of the house or common. As i said, there are only 3 countries that public opinion count. You need to do your research into NATO membership.

A simple question: If Cuba becomes Russia's military ally and deploys weapons, will US invade Cuba?

You do know Cuba IS a allied with Russia, right?

Did US invaded Cuba??

That because as someone said, it's illogical to threaten someone of invasion from joining a pack that would prevent you to be invaded with. If US invaded Cuba, that give more Russo-phone Latin American country deep into Russian pocket. For them, the US is going to invade anyway, I may as well as for Russian or Chinese assistance.

Dude, this is what exactly happened to Ukraine. You attack Ukraine because they want to join an alliance to spare them from being attacked in the first place, that will no doubt push other "Neutral" country into other camp, seeing that YOU DID INVADE.

 

[kankan326]

They can bomb the site where the rocket is being fired.

They can even send troop into Ukraine and take care of Russia from there.

They can do a lot of stuff if Russia initiate hostilities. Something Russian do not have real mean to counter seeing how they perform in Ukraine.

Fair enough. Rocket launchers are not fixed targets. Finland can do whatever it wants. A small country can not change anything if the war doesn't happen in its territory.

Russia is not countering Ukraine but the whole west. That why I support China to offer aid to Russia if it can't handle the situation.

By the way, it is Finland that wants to break the status quo, not Russia. So you should say "Russians can do a lot of stuff if Finland initiates hostilities."

 

[jhungary]

Fair enough. Rocket launchers are not fixed targets. Finland can do whatever it wants. A small country can not change anything if the war doesn't happen in its territory.

Russia is not countering Ukraine but the whole west. That why I support China to offer aid to Russia if it can't handle the situation.

By the way, it is Finland that wants to break the status quo, not Russia. So you should say "Russians can do a lot of stuff if Finland initiates hostilities."

lol, Spare me your detail.

Finland NEVER wanted to join NATO until one thing and one thing happened. That's Russian invading Ukraine.

And again, I don't know how much you think it's possible but if China support Russia openly, they will be punished collectively by the west as much as Russia did. That's why China knows it place and shut up about helping Russia in the open. Sure, some under the table deal where the Chinese can take advantage of.

There are nothing Russia can do even with Chinese Aid, I mean, how much do you think China can support militarily will not hurt Chinese own preparedness of their own war against the West? Do you have a thousand of spare fighter to send to Russia, how about Tank? How about Artillery?? US have 1000+ F-16 and 500+ F/A-18, hundred of ship in the reserve fleet all ready to go, along with thousand of tanks sitting in reserve to send over, And that's only US, what happened if we talk about UK, France, and other collective country?

This is the dilemma, if China help Russia, they will take away a big chunk of their own fighting power. Would China want to do that? But if they don't, Russia WILL fall and they are coming after China next, can China afford that?

 

[WotTen]

First you write

Most European are okay with Finland and Sweden joining

Then you write

Because there are no need for a Parliamentary debate for France and Germany to allow anyone into NATO, their vote come from their own head of government, not from any of the house or common.

Since the topic of this thread is a popular opinion poll in Finland, then the obvious question still remains what are the numbers in existing NATO members.

My question is not about the process but the supposed overwhelming popular support to expand NATO to Finland and Sweden. I ask again, what percentage of French want Parisians to die for Helsinki? How about Berliners? Milanese?

If there is such overwhelming support and solidarity, the poll numbers should be shouted from rooftops.

 

[jhungary]

First you write



Then you write



Since the topic of this thread is a popular opinion poll in Finland, then the obvious question still remains what are the numbers in existing NATO members.

My question is not about the process but the supposed overwhelming popular support to expand NATO to Finland and Sweden. I ask again, what percentage of French want Parisians to die for Helsinki? How about Berliners? Milanese?

If there is such overwhelming support and solidarity, the poll numbers should be shouted from rooftops.

By European I mean European leader, because what normal everyday European said did not really matter as they have no say in whether or not their country would accept the Finns into NATO

Look, there are no poll in Paris, Berlin or Milan because all those "Opinion" does not really count, they don't need Popular support to allow someone to be part of NATO, those country only needed the head of state approval.

Similarly there are no poll in US, Canada or UK in public support because those are not related either, in the US, you need Senate approval, in the UK, you need the House of Common Approval, in Canada, you need the Lower House Approval.

The question now is, why would there be a poll if that did not alter anything, as the most important poll it matter is how Finnish thinking about joining NATO, that have to come with a Referendum, and that had to have majority to come thru, that you have a poll, why you need a poll to see if normal Londoner support the motion of Finland Joining NATO when they have no right to decide so and that was passed on by their local election where they elected said official on that issue?

 

[kankan326]

lol, Spare me your detail.

Finland NEVER wanted to join NATO until one thing and one thing happened. That's Russian invading Ukraine.

And again, I don't know how much you think it's possible but if China support Russia openly, they will be punished collectively by the west as much as Russia did. That's why China knows it place and shut up about helping Russia in the open. Sure, some under the table deal where the Chinese can take advantage of.

There are nothing Russia can do even with Chinese Aid, I mean, how much do you think China can support militarily will not hurt Chinese own preparedness of their own war against the West? Do you have a thousand of spare fighter to send to Russia, how about Tank? How about Artillery?? US have 1000+ F-16 and 500+ F/A-18, hundred of ship in the reserve fleet all ready to go, along with thousand of tanks sitting in reserve to send over, And that's only US, what happened if we talk about UK, France, and other collective country?

This is the dilemma, if China help Russia, they will take away a big chunk of their own fighting power. Would China want to do that? But if they don't, Russia WILL fall and they are coming after China next, can China afford that?

Another question then. Who broke the status quo in Ukraine? Definitely it's not Russia.

Regarding the sanction to China, 1) China is not Russia. Sanction to China is mutually destructive move. If the west doesn't care, why should China care? 2) After calculation, if US feels all the costs of sanctioning to China are affordable, it will saction China no matter China aids Russia or not. Just two days ago, US has deleted its One China policy. We all know what that means. US wants to copy Ukraine model to Taiwan. China will at least have Russia by then if we offer aids.

Don't boast US arms. China will soon have hundreds of J-20. And no country can compete with China in production capability if it enters war time

 

[jhungary]

Another question then. Who broke the status quo in Ukraine? Definitely it's not Russia.

Regarding the sanction to China, 1) China is not Russia. Sanction to China is mutually destructive move. If the west doesn't care, why should China care? 2) After calculation, if US feels all the costs of sanctioning to China are affordable, it will saction China no matter China aids Russia or not. Just two days ago, US has deleted its One China policy. We all know what that means. US wants to copy Ukraine model to Taiwan. China at least have Russia by then if we offer aids now.

Don't boast US arms. China will soon have hundreds of J-20. And no country can compete with China in production capability if it enters war time

What status quo? Is that a law a country close to Russia HAVE TO ALIGN their interest to Russia?

As I said, Ukraine did not have a elected Pro-Russian leader since 1999, since Kuchma was President, Yanukovych was NOT elected, he DID NOT have enough vote to be a elected President.

About Sanction on China, dude, you do realise Germany and most of the EU country are RISKING their life to impose sanction on Russia, you are not talking about no money coming from China or economy begin collapsed mutually, you are talking about they are risking people are going to DIE if Russian did cut off their gas supplies during Winter 2022. So you want to try the EU, whom risking THEIR OWN SURVIVAL to sanction Russia, you want to try that EU that will not sanction China for helping Russia? Well, you can try, but bear in mind 2 things.

1.) EU were doing fine without Chinese Trade before 2000, Chinese market is not that big that they depends on their survival
2.) Did I mentioned they are WILLING TO RISK THEIR CITIZEN LIFE to sanction Russia??

Lol, sure, China have hundred of J-20 (By the way, let me know when you do, not before) but how many of those you are willing to part way with China When US is about to hit 1000 marks on F-35? And Country close to China are almost all armed with F-35 by the time you have "Hundred" of J-20? Are you going to risk that to help Russia?

Again, everybody have a mouth, you can say whatever the hell you want, that does not mean your country is going to do it.

 

[kankan326]

What status quo? Is that a law a country close to Russia HAVE TO ALIGN their interest to Russia?

As I said, Ukraine did not have a elected Pro-Russian leader since 1999, since Kuchma was President, Yanukovych was NOT elected, he DID NOT have enough vote to be a elected President.

About Sanction on China, dude, you do realise Germany and most of the EU country are RISKING their life to impose sanction on Russia, you are not talking about no money coming from China or economy begin collapsed mutually, you are talking about they are risking people are going to DIE if Russian did cut off their gas supplies during Winter 2022. So you want to try the EU, whom risking THEIR OWN SURVIVAL to sanction Russia, you want to try that EU that will not sanction China for helping Russia? Well, you can try, but bear in mind 2 things.

1.) EU were doing fine without Chinese Trade before 2000, Chinese market is not that big that they depends on their survival
2.) Did I mentioned they are WILLING TO RISK THEIR CITIZEN LIFE to sanction Russia??

Lol, sure, China have hundred of J-20 (By the way, let me know when you do, not before) but how many of those you are willing to part way with China When US is about to hit 1000 marks on F-35? And Country close to China are almost all armed with F-35 by the time you have "Hundred" of J-20? Are you going to risk that to help Russia?

Again, everybody have a mouth, you can say whatever the hell you want, that does not mean your country is going to do it.

What status quo? The status quo like your mother land Australia threatened Solomon not to build Chinese military base. Solomon is thousands km away from your mother land while Ukraine border is only several hundreds km from Moscow. The status quo like how US reacted when found the missiles in Cuba.

So far EU has not suffered any serious consequence yet. Most Europeans are spoiled neoliberalists who have never experienced real tough living condition. You said "willing to risk their citizens lives" too early. You are wasting time talking something that hasn't happened. Let's wait till winter comes.

Don't talk the short leg F-35 to me. J-20's rival is F22. US has given up producing F22 long ago.

 

[Oldman1]

They will not.

So if Finland joins NATO, you still think Russia would invade it?

My suggestion for Russia is to use rocket launcher to bomb Helsinki in 24/7 model. No need to enter Finland territory. Just one rocket per hour. Enough to destory Finland economy.

View attachment 842973

You know Finland can shoot back from that distance? Can even hit St. Petersburg. I don't even have to tell you what's going to happen after Russia attacks Finland.

 

[kankan326]

You know Finland can shoot back from that distance? Can even hit St. Petersburg. I don't even have to tell you what's going to happen after Russia attacks Finland.

Of course I know. Russia have many big cities. Finland only has one. When Helsinki gets bombed, Finland economy will collapse. Good enough for Russia.

If Russia attacks Finland, what can US do about it? More sactions?

 

[Oldman1]

Of course I know. Russia have many big cities. Finland only has one. When Helsinki gets bombed, Finland economy will collapse. Good enough for Russia.

If Russia attacks Finland, what can US do about it? More sactions?

U.S. will definitely get involved. Destroy Russian military forces attacking Finland, even hit Kaliningrad. Not to mention Finland has a defense pact with Sweden as well which is practically next door, just like Poland/Ukraine. But that being said, pretty much every European country will get involved against Russia.

 

[kankan326]

U.S. will definitely get involved. Destroy Russian military forces attacking Finland, even hit Kaliningrad. Not to mention Finland has a defense pact with Sweden as well which is practically next door, just like Poland/Ukraine. But that being said, pretty much every European country will get involved against Russia.

LOL. I don't think US has the balls to shoot one bullet to Russia even if Russia attacks the present NATO member like Poland

 

[Oldman1]

LOL. I don't think US has the balls to shoot one bullet to Russia even if Russia attacks the present NATO member like Poland

LOL! Let Russia try. Could have done it months ago. Something must be holding them back.

 

[kankan326]

LOL! Let Russia try. Could have done it months ago. Something must be holding them back.

To be honest, I hope that could happen. One nuke is enough to end US hegemony. All money and talents will leave. It's a big favor for China.