Solution to TTP | Negotiations or Annihilation ??

[All-Green]

Eliminate what?

Having killed in excess of 12,000 people in FATA / Swat, great majority being non combatant civilians and putting more than 4 million to flight from their homes (Swat + Bajaur + South Waziristan + Khyber + Orakzai), the Army has only one option .... Kill More .... genocide proportions. It will never be termed as genocide because the US and the "free world press" is on your side.

The only option left is to move the remaining forces from the Eastern border and establish a permanent 10:1 footprint against the "insurgents". Lets see how long can such posture be sustained.

Pakistan Army killed 12000 people?
You know that Pakistan Army is also part of the casualty list, a very heavy part.
You know that our Army has men who are good Pakistanis and well motivated, do you think they are deliberately butchering innocents?

I am all ears to a solution which does not involve military operation and yet gives Pakistanis freedom from the TTP menace without any sort of freehand which was given to the militants in Swat and which only led to more bloodshed.

What is the 100% non military solution to getting rid of extremism and terrorism when being perpetrated by an organization like TTP which has a lot of military muscle?

 

[asq]

learn objectively who TTP are and what they want. The biggest problem is not negating their ideology but potraying their destructive aspects as works of some seretive intelligence agencies like RAW CIA e.t.c.

The Saudis have been able to tackle their extremist problem in this way. And although Pakistan might not have the same resources, it should try to follow their (Saudi's) solution and develop their own solution to the extremist problem. And it starts with accepting and taking ownership of the problem rather than deflecting it.

At the same time ofcourse there will be a small hardcore group that will only undestand the language of violence. and can't be reformed.

‘Saudi Terrorist Rehab Program Still Works’ | Crossroads Arabia

saudi program has not worked at all, the so called hi-jackers were saudis.

bin laden is saudi. Saudis have controled by force that not even a bird can fly over their country without being considered a intruder and shot.So saudis go to other countrie like Afghanistan and Pakistan to do what they believe is right which is Wahabi Islam.

The only way in my openion is to show those who are using violance in the name of Islam need to be shown real Isam by those who are experts of it, and these very experts who should know how to talk to these so called Islamic extremists are not saying much and the fact is that they do not care to get involved and let the poor down troden fight each other and die.

The core of the problem is the debate about who's Islam is right has not spelled it openly and only people who are experts of it can settle the matter and stop the killing, where are they and why are they not shouting at the top of their lungs to stop this madess.

by experts U know who i mean.

the Imams of all the holiest places of Islam and all the expert of islam in Al-Azhar university and the so called islamic expets I see on Pakistan TV.

An open hall meeting should be held in pakistan relayed on TV and the experts must decide once for all what islam is right Islam.

I know what is right Islam for Myself.

The Islam that believes in:-

The Islam that believes in Peace and in honesty and in human dignity.

If u kill one innocent person yu kill the whole humanity.

Thers is no force in Religion.

 

[Kompromat]

Group 2 seems to be dominant

 

[rameez ahmed]

Assalam u Alaikum brothers and sisters....

I believe that their should be negotiations between army in TTP... i don't have any personal reason for but i want to qoute following hadith as a reference for my choice ... the Holy Prophet (SA) said:

it as reported from Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) that Holy Prophet (SA) said "when a muslim picks up a weapon to kill his brother muslim, both of them are at the BORDER of Jahannum.. And if anyone of them kills the other, BOTH of them will go to Jahannum" . one of the companion asked Prophet (SA) that why will the one who was killed will go to hell? Prophet (SA) replied "that person also picked up the weapon to kill the other person. that's why"​

this hadith is in Sahih Muslim

Whether TTP is terrorist or not .. I am not indulging in such a debate.. But as they are muslim I think killing each other brothers is not at all justified from the EITHER side, the army or TTP.

This is my view .. anybody can differ with me.. but please consider this hadith as it carry great importance...

 

[EjazR]

saudi program has not worked at all, the so called hi-jackers were saudis.

bin laden is saudi. Saudis have controled by force that not even a bird can fly over their country without being considered a intruder and shot.So saudis go to other countrie like Afghanistan and Pakistan to do what they believe is right which is Wahabi Islam.

The only way in my openion is to show those who are using violance in the name of Islam need to be shown real Isam by those who are experts of it, and these very experts who should know how to talk to these so called Islamic extremists are not saying much and the fact is that they do not care to get involved and let the poor down troden fight each other and die.

The core of the problem is the debate about who's Islam is right has not spelled it openly and only people who are experts of it can settle the matter and stop the killing, where are they and why are they not shouting at the top of their lungs to stop this madess.

by experts U know who i mean.

the Imams of all the holiest places of Islam and all the expert of islam in Al-Azhar university and the so called islamic expets I see on Pakistan TV.

An open hall meeting should be held in pakistan relayed on TV and the experts must decide once for all what islam is right Islam.

I know what is right Islam for Myself.

The Islam that believes in:-

The Islam that believes in Peace and in honesty and in human dignity.

If u kill one innocent person yu kill the whole humanity.

Thers is no force in Religion.

You seem to be a little unsure of what is causing this terrorism in the name of Islam in the first place. Its not a particular school of thought as you seem to be implying. Have a go through this thread that addresses most of these issues and specfies what the ideology is behind this. http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...wered-questions-case-pakistan.html#post567385

The rehab program started in 2006. So bringing up OBL or the hijackers just has no relevance to this AT ALL. Do you know that the saudi rehab program has 80-85% success rate? Compare that with the Alcohol rehab programs that usually hover around the 50% mark. Check out this interview.
Saudi Detainee-Rehab Program Mostly Successful - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

And its not just in Saudi, even in Egypt the terrorist mentality has been put to rest by tackling the ideology head on. NOw these same "terrorists" who were causing mayhem in the 90s in Egypt are demolishing Al Qaeda's ideology in open letters. Even though they have been in prison most of the time. Don't know if you follow Arabic press but that's were all the action has been regarding this in the last 10 years. This article here is a good summary of this
A Reporter at Large: The Rebellion Within : The New Yorker

The issue with Pakistan is will it seize on the ideology and counter it head on instead of blaming the insurgents/militants/terrorists as being RAW/Mossad/CIA e.t.c. agents? This very important as the core ideology that is the fuel for them is not being undermined. This ideology can't be fought with bombs and guns. Its a war of words and minds.
Egypt, Saudi Arabia e.t.c. have done it, Pakistan can to it. Hopefully before its too late. It requires will power, more from the security establishment that from the civil Govt.

 

[F86 Saber]

Assalam u Alaikum brothers and sisters....

I believe that their should be negotiations between army in TTP... i don't have any personal reason for but i want to qoute following hadith as a reference for my choice ... the Holy Prophet (SA) said:

it as reported from Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) that Holy Prophet (SA) said "when a muslim picks up a weapon to kill his brother muslim, both of them are at the BORDER of Jahannum.. And if anyone of them kills the other, BOTH of them will go to Jahannum" . one of the companion asked Prophet (SA) that why will the one who was killed will go to hell? Prophet (SA) replied "that person also picked up the weapon to kill the other person. that's why"​

this hadith is in Sahih Muslim

Whether TTP is terrorist or not .. I am not indulging in such a debate.. But as they are muslim I think killing each other brothers is not at all justified from the EITHER side, the army or TTP.

This is my view .. anybody can differ with me.. but please consider this hadith as it carry great importance...

My knowledge of Islam may not be vast so maybe someone can supplement me. After the Death of Hazrat Muhammad (S.W), people of certain areas of the Islamic state refused to pay Zakat. Although they were Muslims, Hazrat Abu Bakar (R.A) had to send troops to counter them.
These elements were breaking rules of the state just like the Taliban and had to be dealt with by force. I don't think there is any other solution to this Taliban issue except eliminating them through to their roots.

 

[Fracker]

I am the first person here who believes negotiations is the way to go. The reasons are:

- TTP make a huge population and its not just an army, its an ideology and ideology can not be destroyed. The more you try to kill it, the more reasons you give them to justify their cause.

- Today thousands of people, lacs actually are ready to sacrifice themselves for these groups. They are doing so because they are unhappy, unsatisfied with something. The govt needs to change the reason why they take up arms.

- Education, jobs, social upliftment is what will eradicate the ideology behind the terrorism. Majority, infact more than 90% of the so called terrorists are just dummies doing what their masters command them to do. Killing them won't change the scenario. The masters need to be killed. Social and economic development would be more than enough to lure the rest 90% away to a greater cause.

- Killing all of them would strengthen them further. They might get weak but as soon as the army operations are over, they will come up like earthworms come up in rains.

Just my 2 cents.

Sorry mate, no negotiations with TTP any more. As they actually don't have ideology at all. They are using AT's Ideology as a tool to misguide the people around them. To defeat AT's Ideology i agree we can move with above steps, but to defeat TTP, we only need to vanish them from the face of the earth, and clean this mess by removing all known-unknown commanders who are taking care of their Stupid Mission in Pakistan.
Also i like to add another step, in the points that to make Pakistan's constitution shariah compliant will solve around 70% of the problems, as these people use Islam as a tool, and after making pakistani constitution shariah compliant will remove their basic ideology from its roots

 

[rameez ahmed]

My knowledge of Islam may not be vast so maybe someone can supplement me. After the Death of Hazrat Muhammad (S.W), people of certain areas of the Islamic state refused to pay Zakat. Although they were Muslims, Hazrat Abu Bakar (R.A) had to send troops to counter them.
These elements were breaking rules of the state just like the Taliban and had to be dealt with by force. I don't think there is any other solution to this Taliban issue except eliminating them through to their roots.

Brother thanks for giving this example. I don't Know anything about this event , but i will Insha Allah try to get authenticity of this event. If any one knows this event then please tell us about it..

 

[Slav Defence]

Full fledge selective operation will ultimately leads them towards annhilation.Full fledge media campaign against them to halt their attempt of penetration into our political infrastructure.Confuse them and destroy them.
-Regards

 

[Aamir Hussain]

IMHO it is time for an operation against the so called Talibs. Combined with a clean up of our jehadi mentality madrassas and our policy of using non state actors to further our foreign policy objectives.

 

[EagleEyes]

IMHO it is time for an operation against the so called Talibs. Combined with a clean up of our jehadi mentality madrassas and our policy of using non state actors to further our foreign policy objectives.

Welcome back sir!

This is the way to go forward, 1 month is ample time to analyze how to clean them, given they fail to meet our demands.

 

[Ayush]

annihilate them

 

[Slav Defence]

IMHO it is time for an operation against the so called Talibs. Combined with a clean up of our jehadi mentality madrassas and our policy of using non state actors to further our foreign policy objectives.

I totally agree with you sir.This should be done earlier,but seems like their lies a specific class consisting of confused individuals.I still don't understand that why they are so confused with TTP?or they aren't?but if my hypothesis is 'true' then what is causing failure of proper implementation for so long?
-Regards

 

[KingMamba]

Can't believe this thread is like 3 years old and everyone here seems to see what needs to be done but GOP still cannot figure anything out.

 

[niaz]

Understand That TTP has three main demands:

- Release of all Taliban prisoners whether convicted or not

- Compensation for the damage to Taliban property

- Removal of Pak Army from FATA.

Everyone agrees that ‘Dialogue’ should be within the framework of Pakistan Constitution. At least that is also the official stance of PTI. Now let us see whether any TTP demand can be accepted within the Pakistan Constitution.

Article 256. Private armies forbidden.-No private organisation capable of functioning as a military organisation shall be formed, and any such organisation shall be illegal.

Therefore having a dilalogue with an illeghal non state party is a breach of Pakistan Constitution.

Under Chapter on the Human Rights article 20 states

Freedom to profess religion and to manage religious institutions.
Subject to law, public order and morality:-

(a) Every citizen shall have the right to profess, practice and propagate his religion; and

(b) Every religious denomination and every sect thereof shall have the right to establish, maintain and manage its religious institutions.

Therefore any organization which indulges in criminal activities such as killing Hazara comunity or destroying churches must be punished.

Under Pakistan penal code Chapter 1, article 2:

"Punishment of offences committed within Pakistan"

Every person shall be liable to punishment under this Code and not otherwise for every act or omission contrary to the provisions thereof, of which he shall be guilty within Pakistan.


Taliban prisoners have been tried and convicted under Pakistan Penal Code. Pray tell me how anyone can agree to the release of thousands of Taliban prisoners? Also once released what stops these terrorists to renew their criminal activities? What happens to justice for the victims?


Damage to GOP property such as attack on PNS Mehran, PAF Kamran etc. runs into billions. If you add damage to civilian property, it will add to hundreds of billions. Who will compensate for this loss?


Unless we don’t consider FATA as Pakistan territory, how can Pakistan State agree to removal of Pak forces from any part there of as a condition of peace with a non -state party?

Basically, acceptance of any or even a part of the TTP demand is sending a message to all anti Pakistan forces that they can achieve their aims thru barrel of the gun. This also implies that GOP is unable to enforce her writ and thus attempting to buy peace at the expense of handing over a piece of Pakistan to TTP to form their gov’t. Doesn’t this mean a de-facto break up of Pakistan?

Additionally; suppose after consolidating their control of over FATA, Taliban start the tactics over again and next time demand whole of KPK as price of peace. Where is the redline? When TTP want all of Pakistan???

I am therefore amazed at the moral bankruptcy of Nawaz Sharif and Ch. Nisar. Did Pakistanis vote of PML-N to buy peace by handing over FATA or even North Waziristan to Taliban?

In my opinion only concession State of Pakistan can offer and should offer is a general amnesty in return for Taliban disbanding the private army. Amnesty not applicable to those who have been already convicted. TTP should instead become a political party and try to win power thru the ballot box.

As the things stand; with Pakistan State run by cowardly leaders; I can only pray to Allah to give courage to the cowardly political leaders and save Pakistan from breaking up.