Six new submarines to be built in India in Rs 50,000 crore project

[axisofevil]

I think russia might win this contract due to politics of balance.
French will def get rafale and indian govt may want to compensate that.

But yeah that would be a terrible decision

Compensate what? We already gave them the Aircraft carrier and PAK-Fa

 

[he-man]

Compensate what? We already gave them the Aircraft carrier and PAK-Fa

We did not,,,we had no other options,,,they have more money than us and tech too

 

[axisofevil]

Go with Germany. Even logistically, its harder........their tech is superb. The USN is testing one of their subs on loan due to its acoustic abilities...

 

[Malik Alashter]

How about the S-20 chinese subs Loool just joking.

 

[he-man]

scorpenes with aip should be the best option

 

[Yeti]

Go with Germany. Even logistically, its harder........their tech is superb. The USN is testing one of their subs on loan due to its acoustic abilities...

That is a Swedish submarine I believe

In 2004, the Swedish government received a request from the United States of America to lease HMS Gotland – Swedish-flagged, commanded and manned, for a duration of one year for use in anti-submarine warfare exercises. The Swedish government granted this request in October 2004, with both navies signing a memorandum of understanding on March 21, 2005.[5][6] The lease was extended for another 12 months in 2006.[7][8][9] In July 2007, HMS Gotland departed San Diego for Sweden.[10]
HMS Gotland managed to snap several pictures of the USS Ronald Reagan during a wargaming exercise in the Pacific Ocean, effectively "sinking" the aircraft carrier.[11] The exercise was conducted to evaluate the effectiveness of the US Fleet against diesel-electric submarines, which some have noted as severely lacking.[12][13]
Overhaul[edit]
In March 2013, Kockums received an order for an overhaul for two of the Gotland-class submarines. The overhaul is expected to be completed by 2017. With these upgrades, the submarines will be able to remain in active duty until after 2025.[14] On 2 April 2014 the Swedish defence minister announced that all three submarines are to be overhauled

 

[Raje amar]

The most logical option in this case is to opt for 4 Scorpion subs with AIP as addon.
Order the latest and most advance Russian sub for the 75I project.
The down side may be the Russian habit of developing a product on our money and their, may be, not to the standard of European subs.
But then with already 3 different platforms running, its logistics and maintenance nightmare if we opt German subs or any other than we already use.

 

[sancho]

We are indeed running the risk of losing a lot of time again if we go for a different class of subs (other than S80)

We are, if we don't go for additional Scorpenes, but S80s even if based on the Scorpene is a different sub and can't simply build by the know how we gained so far.

I would say scrapping P-75I and just ordering a further batch of 6-9 Scorpenes

That's not going to happen, because we would lose the advantage of the competition to put pressure on DCSN, either to reduce the price or the increase the ToT. So even if we want additional Scorpenes, it should be the outcome of the P75I.

@Gessler @sancho What is the real reason for not issuing RFP?
Everyone is aware we are too late still no action , i just don't understand.

Maybe the delays are the reason, because now different techs or even different subs could be on offer, therefor you don't ask the vendor for a proposal for the U214, but wait and see if the vendor will offer U216 now. Same goes for DCNS, they can offer Scorpene which is the logical choice, or offer the Barracuda, which however is a different sub.

there is so many new submarine in the line for P-75I
what is best to shoot IN
U-216, SMX, Russian Kalina, or Soryu......

Question is what's on offer. Kalina seems to be an offshoot of the Amur, without much differences and since not even the latter is ready and operational yet, it hardly will change the game. Soryu will be very expensive and surely comes with restrictions, will be difficult. Sweden has a new sub too, wonder if they now will join the competition too, after seperating from the Germans.

 

[sancho]

But then with already 3 different platforms running, its logistics and maintenance nightmare if we opt German subs or any other than we already use.

That's not correct, the U209 subs we already use, are the base for the U214 subs that are on offer now and share not only design but also systems and weapons. We might have lost the know how to build the German subs, but the operational know how of the U209 in the Indian Navy is there and will make it easier to induct the U214. However, the the industrial factor will remain to be an important one and unless one of the competitiors can offer a major operational or industrial advantage, adding more Scorpenes to the existing production line is the most logical and likely step.

 

[Raje amar]

That's not correct, the U209 subs we already use, are the base for the U214 subs that are on offer now and share not only design but also systems and weapons. We might have lost the know how to build the German subs, but the operational know how of the U209 in the Indian Navy is there and will make it easier to induct the U214. However, the the industrial factor will remain to be an important one and unless one of the competitiors can offer a major operational or industrial advantage, adding more Scorpenes to the existing production line is the most logical and likely step.

The HDW we have are used only for training now and off the combat duties.
They are not maintained in India but need to be sent to Germany for the same.
Cosidering that the current U214 has minimal commanisation with the 209 in Indian service. Also the 209 are from 1960's where as the 214 or 216 which we will be considering are most modern and latest. I doubt that we will have advantage of 209 in Indian service.

 

[Manindra]

The HDW we have are used only for training now and off the combat duties.
They are not maintained in India but need to be sent to Germany for the same.
Cosidering that the current U214 has minimal commanisation with the 209 in Indian service. Also the 209 are from 1960's where as the 214 or 216 which we will be considering are most modern and latest. I doubt that we will have advantage of 209 in Indian service.

From where you get this
Shishumar class are more capable than basic Type 209 & can lay mine & recently upgraded by MDL & can fire UGM-84L Harpoon Block II anti-ship and land attack missiles, with an operational range of around 140 km. This makes her more lethal than Kilo class.

 

[Luca1]

That is a Swedish submarine I believe

In 2004, the Swedish government received a request from the United States of America to lease HMS Gotland – Swedish-flagged, commanded and manned, for a duration of one year for use in anti-submarine warfare exercises. The Swedish government granted this request in October 2004, with both navies signing a memorandum of understanding on March 21, 2005.[5][6] The lease was extended for another 12 months in 2006.[7][8][9] In July 2007, HMS Gotland departed San Diego for Sweden.[10]
HMS Gotland managed to snap several pictures of the USS Ronald Reagan during a wargaming exercise in the Pacific Ocean, effectively "sinking" the aircraft carrier.[11] The exercise was conducted to evaluate the effectiveness of the US Fleet against diesel-electric submarines, which some have noted as severely lacking.[12][13]
Overhaul[edit]
In March 2013, Kockums received an order for an overhaul for two of the Gotland-class submarines. The overhaul is expected to be completed by 2017. With these upgrades, the submarines will be able to remain in active duty until after 2025.[14] On 2 April 2014 the Swedish defence minister announced that all three submarines are to be overhauled

Any surface fleet entered a waiting diesel electric sub firing range is a sitting duck. This much is obvious. However, would any enemy surface sub be able to ambush a carrier task force in a real war time scenario?

 

[Yeti]

Any surface fleet entered a waiting diesel electric sub firing range is a sitting duck. This much is obvious. However, would any enemy surface sub be able to ambush a carrier task force in a real war time scenario?

Would be mission impossible to ambush a US carrier task force! they are well guarded

 

[sancho]

Would be mission impossible to ambush a US carrier task force! they are well guarded

Not that impossible as you might think. The Swedes have shown it in exercises, the Germans were able to follow US carriers undetected and a Chinese sub surprised the US during an exercise if I remember correctly too. Modern SSKs are very deadly, even if they still fall short on some to SSNs at certain performance specs, but surely are a threat to CBGs too.

 

[Yeti]

Not that impossible as you might think. The Swedes have shown it in exercises, the Germans were able to follow US carriers undetected and a Chinese sub surprised the US during an exercise if I remember correctly too. Modern SSKs are very deadly, even if they still fall short on some to SSNs at certain performance specs, but surely are a threat to CBGs too.

It is one thing doing it to a US carrier on it's own but a Carrier task force with full support of submarines, frigates etc would be very difficult