Six new submarines to be built in India in Rs 50,000 crore project

[SrNair]

U are new here,,,after some research on scorpene fiasco u will agree what i am saying.
As i said earlier only politics can explain why we are not going for scorpenes directly which should be the case.

I think Indian Navy knows better than all of us.
I think GoI will give this challenge to private shipyard .PSU cant do it they are already occupied with Scorpene.

 

[he-man]

I doubt scorpenes will be considered again for p75i, who do you think DCNS is tied up with? its Mazaagoan docks with which they have a long term contract. I am willing to bet that this will go to a new private player who ties up with Germans...which will result in faster execution.

If they fall back on MDL and DCNS combine then say goodbye to P75i for a decade and a half.

Jaitleyji was pretty pissed off and not interested when he visited MDL and the way the handled P75. The naval officers accompanying him too reciprocated by opening up P75I to private players.

Then no need top build it here,,,get an offshelf purchase.
It will be far better logistically speaking if we have 12 similar boats albeit newer ones will have AIP.

But my intuition is that product will go to amur as we need to pacify the russians.

 

[axisofevil]

Dude scorpenes are no inferior tech!!
Its french.

The only major problem is lack of AIP

AIP is a big deal.

DCNS fails to Supply Spares for Scorpene Subs , Another Delay likely Says Mazagon | idrw.org

 

[he-man]

I think Indian Navy knows better than all of us.
I think GoI will give this challenge to private shipyard .PSU cant do it they are already occupied with Scorpene.

Sadly indian govt decisions in the past are to the contrary

AIP is a big deal.

DCNS fails to Supply Spares for Scorpene Subs , Another Delay likely Says Mazagon | idrw.org

French have an AIP for a decade now.....not a proble for newer scorpenes

 

[acid rain]

Then no need top build it here,,,get an offshelf purchase.
It will be far better logistically speaking if we have 12 similar boats albeit newer ones will have AIP.

But my intuition is that product will go to amur as we need to pacify the russians.

No amurs either - you know the mess russian shipyards did with Viki and the sub upgrades - we lost a recently furbished kilo....

About buying off the shelf - thats what the article is about - IN has shelved that proposal due to stupid red tapism.

L&T tied with HDW will cut out the long drawn out deal finalization by at least 2 Years out of the 3, the dock will be up and running in 2 Years flat and the first sub will be out in another 2 years.

 

[he-man]

No amurs either - you know the mess russian shipyards did with Viki and the sub upgrades - we lost a recently furbished kilo....

About buying off the shelf - thats what the article is about - IN has shelved that proposal due to stupid red tapism.

L&T tied with HDW will cut out the long drawn out deal finalization by at least 2 Years out of the 3, the dock will be up and running in 2 Years flat and the first sub will be out in another 2 years.

Then fine,,,i am just concerned about the time

 

[axisofevil]

Sadly indian govt decisions in the past are to the contrary



French have an AIP for a decade now.....not a proble for newer scorpenes

MESMA is the least preferred option among existing AIPs in the world. Generally, countries are going for either Stirling Engine version or the fuel cell versions.

Not only MESMA is inefficient but it also requires a massive support infrastructure on base, which would be very costly to build.

In addition, getting two submarines off the shelf does not solve the problem. As of today, Indian Navy has 12 submarines out of which 7-8 are operational at a time. Navy is concerned about immediate future if Scorpenes are not delivered on time. It is worried about future in next 10 years time, not today.

So DCNS offer is fine, but no thanks. AIP will have to be different one and sub program would need further accretion in terms of additional submarines.

What Indian Navy badly needs now is SSN (nuclear attack submarines). Please somebody tell the political and bureaucratic leadership to give us nuclear boats. One SSN would be equal to 3-4 diesel electric subs.

If really DCNS is worried about Indian submarine situation, it would be lovely on its part to help us build "Barracuda" type boats. Will it do that???








DRDO fuel cell is based on PAFC in which methanol reformation takes place (using water) and H2 is produced.It uses phosphoric acid as electrolyte, that poses problem of corrosion, NMRL is developing special paint to avoid corrosion. It produces CO2 as byproduct.
Type 212 AIP is based on PEMFC which requires carrying hydrogen onboard and combines with oxygen to produce water as byproduct after releasing electron.
DRDO says its system is proven on land so it points that AIP will also be PAFC based in which H2 comprises 18.75% of weight of methanol. Also water is required for reformation.
Conformed DRDO AIP is PAFC based :

DRDO working on system to cut submarine vulnerability - The Hindu

This removes the need of carrying Oxygen and Hydrogen onboard. It may reduce the endurance underwater.

For information on DRDO fuel cell :

DRDO





For information on PAFC type fuel cell :

Phosphoric Acid Fuel Cells - scopeWe - a Virtual Engineer



DRDO presentation on Fuel Cell :

http://web.iitd.ac.in/~sbasu/seminar/presentation/3S.R.ChoudhuryNMRL,DRDO mbernath.pdf

 

[SrNair]

Sadly indian govt decisions in the past are to the contrary



French have an AIP for a decade now.....not a proble for newer scorpenes

New govt is indeed give us hope.

 

[axisofevil]

Japan Enters Global Submarine Market With Soryu Offering | The Diplomat

 

[he-man]

MESMA is the least preferred option among existing AIPs in the world. Generally, countries are going for either Stirling Engine version or the fuel cell versions.

Not only MESMA is inefficient but it also requires a massive support infrastructure on base, which would be very costly to build.

In addition, getting two submarines off the shelf does not solve the problem. As of today, Indian Navy has 12 submarines out of which 7-8 are operational at a time. Navy is concerned about immediate future if Scorpenes are not delivered on time. It is worried about future in next 10 years time, not today.

So DCNS offer is fine, but no thanks. AIP will have to be different one and sub program would need further accretion in terms of additional submarines.

What Indian Navy badly needs now is SSN (nuclear attack submarines). Please somebody tell the political and bureaucratic leadership to give us nuclear boats. One SSN would be equal to 3-4 diesel electric subs.

If really DCNS is worried about Indian submarine situation, it would be lovely on its part to help us build "Barracuda" type boats. Will it do that???








DRDO fuel cell is based on PAFC in which methanol reformation takes place (using water) and H2 is produced.It uses phosphoric acid as electrolyte, that poses problem of corrosion, NMRL is developing special paint to avoid corrosion. It produces CO2 as byproduct.
Type 212 AIP is based on PEMFC which requires carrying hydrogen onboard and combines with oxygen to produce water as byproduct after releasing electron.
DRDO says its system is proven on land so it points that AIP will also be PAFC based in which H2 comprises 18.75% of weight of methanol. Also water is required for reformation.
Conformed DRDO AIP is PAFC based :

DRDO working on system to cut submarine vulnerability - The Hindu

This removes the need of carrying Oxygen and Hydrogen onboard. It may reduce the endurance underwater.

For information on DRDO fuel cell :

DRDO





For information on PAFC type fuel cell :

Phosphoric Acid Fuel Cells - scopeWe - a Virtual Engineer



DRDO presentation on Fuel Cell :

http://web.iitd.ac.in/~sbasu/seminar/presentation/3S.R.ChoudhuryNMRL,DRDO mbernath.pdf

All right we may go for hdw by i have 0 hope on drdo fuel cell.

Why??

Because its DRDO fuel cell

 

[axisofevil]

Defenseblog-njs.blogspot.com: Scorpene vs. Agosta 90B - A General Analysis




Other then that India is acquiring its nuclear subs from Russia. Pakistan has no such plans with China but is rumoured to have started an indigenous project dubbed NMP(Nuclear Marine Propulsion)

France-METALLURGIE » Blog Archive » La DGA commande un 3ème “Barracuda” à DCNS et Areva‎-TA (US)



Damn EU is spending 1 billion on metals research. This is how you build your country, you reinvest.



Sri lanka, Nepal, Burma, Singapore, Vietnam Bhutan and other extremely friendly countries should create such research oriented institutions....

 

[he-man]

Defenseblog-njs.blogspot.com: Scorpene vs. Agosta 90B - A General Analysis




Other then that India is acquiring its nuclear subs from Russia. Pakistan has no such plans with China but is rumoured to have started an indigenous project dubbed NMP(Nuclear Marine Propulsion)

France-METALLURGIE » Blog Archive » La DGA commande un 3ème “Barracuda” à DCNS et Areva‎-TA (US)



Damn EU is spending 1 billion on metals research. This is how you build your country, you reinvest.



Sri lanka, Nepal, Burma, Singapore, Vietnam Bhutan and other extremely friendly countries should create such research oriented institutions....

Agreed..............but is it gonna happen here??
U guessed it--------------------nope.

We are busy wasting money on providing free foodgrains which don't even reach the intended consumer

 

[mike2000]

This should be a welcome news to India. At least it shows the new government is serious about producing weapons indegenously. As I said before, India has to start somewhere, if not it will keep lagging behind. No matter how long it takes, it will still be worth it, due to the knowledge/experience gained in building such a submarine locally. So Indians here should be proud/happy about this not sad/dussapointed. I admire a country who tries to be self sufficient.

I'm sure your government know what's best for the country than you civilians. So Cheers to this news.

 

[kalanirnay]

This should be a welcome news to India. At least it shows the new government is serious about producing weapons indegenously. As I said before, India has to start somewhere, if not it will keep lagging behind. No matter how long it takes, it will still be worth it, due to the knowledge/experience gained in building such a submarine locally. So Indians here should be proud/happy about this not sad/dussapointed. I admire a country who tries to be self sufficient.

I'm sure your government know what's best for the country than you civilians. So Cheers to this news.

U brit or chinese ?

 

[illusion8]

This should be a welcome news to India. At least it shows the new government is serious about producing weapons indegenously. As I said before, India has to start somewhere, if not it will keep lagging behind. No matter how long it takes, it will still be worth it, due to the knowledge/experience gained in building such a submarine locally. So Indians here should be proud/happy about this not sad/dussapointed. I admire a country who tries to be self sufficient.

I'm sure your government know what's best for the country than you civilians. So Cheers to this news.

Indian docks have built uboats before, they are presently building scorpenes too, but the tech absorption doesn't translate into building our own subs which is pretty mysterious. The new govt wants to reduce dependence of govt docks and increase participation of private firms. This, and the cancellation of the 197 heli's (which was taking forever as well) are an invitation for private firms to start getting involved seriously.