Sharia laws, theories vary among world's Muslims

[asaad-ul-islam]

Because of outside world? Don't you people have brains and think on your own?

this goes to show me you misinterpreted his idea, it shows exactly how smart you are. pay attention, when reading, you should carefully analyze and try to understand what a person is writing. he means that other people are manipulating muslims to fight each other, whether it is muslim nations against each other or individuals against each other. this is the job of intelligence agencies, and the policy of current nations and empires before you, "divide and rule"

Islam didn't rule. Muslims ruled. And not the entire world. It is not because of sharia, but military power. The sharia was there, because muslims ruled. You can not twist the facts.

what are you talking about? what is the maqsat(point) that you are trying make here. do you think he's giving an object human characteristics and that he's wrong and stupid? whether it's islam or muslims ruling, he means that samething.

Final ? That is the problem.

no, it's not. muslims don't have wear tight clothes, eat the same food as other people do, etc. try paying a visit to malaysia, you'll find a lot of muslims with zeal living in one the most prosperous places in the world. to think that muslims are living in complete "backwardness" is rubbish and shows just how educated you are. it doesn't matter if someone from a certain religion is poor and have not modernised. anyone can be living in these environments, regardless of religion.

No knowledge? It is the age of information. I may not know the exact verses. I have some idea about the concepts of Islam. If you think that the verses are important than the concept, then I can't help.

dude, seriously, stop wasting our time. this is getting out of hand, quoting and answering arguments that make no sense.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

OTA.
Off topic Alert.

sorry samudra, i didn't see your post in time.

 

[Logic note]

you can't seem to grasp this fact, that there is no "universal" definition of what is right and wrong.

My dear , there is a universal truth .. and Ethics is the way to achieve it .
I will give an example - Dont steal , Dont Lie ,. these are Universal truths and they will never change whatever the time of Place is .

There is a difference between "PERCEPTION" and "TRUTH"
we may have different perception of everything( which is the result of ignorance) .. but that doesn't mean we cant learn and reach the final "Truth"

ALso even in Science there is constant effort to find a "THEORY OF EVERYTHING" the universal truth ..
so please get over your individual "perception" of right and wrong ..
and it is very simple - Behave with others that way you want others to behave with you .

globalization originates from western imperialistic empires. although many people have been "globalized", the majority of six billion people on earth are uneducated and illiterate. they have their own understanding of what is right and wrong, which is primarily according to their customs, cultures, traditions, religion, etc.

No my dear Globalization originates from right of equality and shrinking of world due to scientific growth . world is no more a place of geographical and socially isolated societies .. now anyone have right to start his economical Ideas and sell anywhere in the world , without any prejudice and biased economical laws..

Uneducated and Illiterate ppl shall be educated . this world shall not be run by ignorant and uneducated ppl anymore.
Customs ,cultures , Traditions and religion are for humans and not the other way (humans are for customs ,cultures, traditions and religion)

the vast majority of muslims believe there is a war on islam. I believe it isn't a war on islam, but it's definitely against muslims. Muslims just plain don't want to try to blend in with other cultures, let alone be forced. this so-called war on terror has supposedly introduced democracy into nations after have killed thousands of people.

your Point here is that Democracy is opposite of Islam (for Majority) . I dont think so .. religion is an personal faith (for an individual) while democracy is a system to run a society (made of many individuals).

democracy makes it possible for various individual (of different Faith) to co exists together peacefully . now the problem comes when personal faith tries to force it on everyone .
How can you say on behalf of mUslims thats they dont want democracy ..you mean to say Pakistanis are not Muslim ?

"other religions have evolved or changed" you're seriously starting to spit out sentences, try proving this.

yes -Bibles says world is Flat and and Christians always belived it till science proved it otherwise and most of the world not only rejected that old point .. but this also lead to reform .. now Jesus is not the only patented trademark of goodness.. you can be an atheist in western civilization .

secular laws, freedom of speech, democracy, these things have nothing to do with these religions. I seriously doubt hinduism or christianity has "evolved" to have assimilate scientific understanding of things. Please don't make stuff up.

You are confused .No one is forcing science on religion .. religion is a personal faith ..
no one stops anyone from believing the bible that World is flat , but it stops faith to force it on others who want to believe in scientific truth .
let everyone have there own faith till it doesnt intrude in others belief .

 

[Logic note]

Well that's not true. Hinduism isn't exactly blessed with scientific knowledge currently. One could also argue the Kashmiris are getting hurt, as well as the other places where a war is on. The WoT has been globalized, Kashmir hasn't, but if Kashmir was globalized, then the rest of the world would get hurt by it - however I would expect the Indian army to have capitulated well before this, and turned the Indian Ocean an odd shade of green-brown.

You are either confused or trying to change the topic .science and religion are separate things .No one is forcing science on religion .. religion is a personal faith ..
Hinduism has changed with time and thats why Indian Law is based on modern western Law and not on ancient Manu Samhita .
Manu samhita which is ancient Social document says that a Man of 32 can marry a girl of 13 .. but today if anyone does that he will be sent to jail .

no one stops anyone from believing his god and faith , but it stops faith to force it on others who want to believe in scientific truth .
let everyone have there own faith till it doesn't intrude in others belief .
oh and cmon RR lets not change topic by dragging Kashmir and Modi

 

[Logic note]

First of all their is not an internal struggle in Islam. I prefer to call it a struggle of different ideologies. .

Ideologies are the reason for Every struggle ,whether it is within a religion or in a family ..

Now religious ideologies exist in every religion and in Islam it is to be restricted to a peaceful argument. Now you talk of war within Islam. Let me assure you no side wants war, they want to talk, but since we have outside forces acting we have a war. This struggle in Pakistan between secularism and what I would call religious ideologist has always been around. We were founded in the name of Islam but our founding fathers said we are secular. Before 9/11 none of this would be talked about why because no outside force was at work and these arguments were done peacefully. The point is the reason why we see a struggle for ideology in a violent way is because outside forces want us to fight and divide us, now I am not going to get into the argument about foreign forces, war on Islam because that is already being discussed.

stop blaming the outside world its Pakistand and Only Pakistan responsible for this mess.

Now the part about Islam struggling. You and everyone else needs to get it through that Islam as a religion has never struggled, it is complete in every aspect, you can find solutions to any problem or any thing you want. Now may be you are forgetting that Muslims ruled the world for 900 years from the time of the Holy Prophet till around the 1800s. The reason being Islamic laws and provisions were followed and the point is they worked. The Western world has just started to rule and I doubt they will even rule for 900 years. The problem is with us when it comes to not being united.

no my dear its not western world .. its Modern world .. in which every society and every nation contributed .
Ruled the world for 900 years ?? first your definition of "world" is naive .. and does might make it right ? and western world ruled after 1800 .. do they become right ?? before Islam .. Egypt and there Religion ruled ,, so does the rome and Greece ..
Islamic laws worked in that Medivial time .. and the reason there is such a struggle because they have become obsolete ..

As far as Islam evloving. You see you are not Muslim and are bron in the age of Westernization, where the Christian religion rules,Islam does not need to evolve, it is in its final form.

Then why doesn't most of Islamic countries including Pakistan implement them .. why founding fathers of pakistan wanted secularism and not Islamic country . why there is fight for democracy in Pakistan ..

If you follow Islam you can find the solution to anything and these solution are good for even today.

Implement Sharia in Pakistan and once you are able to do it then you proclaim that these are good for even today .

slam has contributed more to society then anyother religion. Lets take our advances in medicines, math, chemistry, physics and I could go on and on. Dont talk about something you have no knowledge of.

Prove it .. dont just pass statements ..

and Please .. whats there in Quran .. which is scintific .. can you please be specific and enlighten me ??

 

[mujahideen]

stop blaming the outside world its Pakistand and Only Pakistan responsible for this mess.

no my dear its not western world .. its Modern world .. in which every society and every nation contributed .
Ruled the world for 900 years ?? first your definition of "world" is naive .. and does might make it right ? and western world ruled after 1800 .. do they become right ?? before Islam .. Egypt and there Religion ruled ,, so does the rome and Greece ..
Islamic laws worked in that Medivial time .. and the reason there is such a struggle because they have become obsolete ..

Then why doesn't most of Islamic countries including Pakistan implement them .. why founding fathers of pakistan wanted secularism and not Islamic country . why there is fight for democracy in Pakistan ..

Implement Sharia in Pakistan and once you are able to do it then you proclaim that these are good for even today .

Prove it .. dont just pass statements ..

and Please .. whats there in Quran .. which is scintific .. can you please be specific and enlighten me ??

First of all when I blame outside forces acting against Islam I stand by it, but at the same time I realize that we should be united. We are being used against our own people. Now like I said outside forces are trying to destroy Islam but I agree with you if you are trying to say this is mostly the fault of the Muslims because we have allowed ourselves to be used.
Again I think I have cleared up the part about ruling the world and if you read my previous post you will see that I didn't mean this in a terrotorial sense but in the sence we were the strongest Empire around.
Islamis law worked then and it is still valid today. Go to Saudia Arabia they have Islamic law and you will see that they are one of the most peaceful societies. At the same time I know this is not a good example because a pure Islamic society has democracy which Saudia Arabia clearly lacks. The teachings of Islam were used in many Constitutions of even non Muslim coutries such as the U.S, why becuase Islam is all about democracy. In Islam we believe in everything in the world must be questioned and proven, we believe that a leader or today a President should be chosen by the people, he should be honest and should be chosen only if the people respect him, we also have a system of Parliament where a group of chosen people set our laws and regulations and we also have a judicial system where problems are resolved according to the teaching of the Quran and Sunnah.
In one of the other threads I made it very clear Islam is very flexible and is changeble with the times. But we as Muslims have changed it to fit our selfish needs. We have started to interpret Islam the way we want and that most certainly includes me as well.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

My dear , there is a universal truth .. and Ethics is the way to achieve it .
I will give an example - Dont steal , Dont Lie ,. these are Universal truths and they will never change whatever the time of Place is .
There is a difference between "PERCEPTION" and "TRUTH"
we may have different perception of everything( which is the result of ignorance) .. but that doesn't mean we cant learn and reach the final "Truth".

you're not listening, for the past 2-3 pages of this thread, you have been repeating your argument "universal truth." there is no "world" consensus on what is wrong or right. people are largely influenced by their traditions, cultures, whatever etc. you make it sound as if its agreed upon all around the world by saying "truth".
if you're here to preach about globalization, you aren't doing it in the right place nor are you doing a good job at it. muslims, with a population of 1.5 billion, just aren't accepting it, especially now adays. the population isn't stagnant either, it's growing at the fastest rate of any religion. soon it will take up 25% of the world's population.
the WoT has had a significant effect on the hearts and minds of muslims everywhere. they now stand more united, even if their ruling governments fail to do so. we all feel that other people are trying to enforce their ways of life upon us.

ALso even in Science there is constant effort to find a "THEORY OF EVERYTHING" the universal truth ..

stop trying to tie in science with religion and culture. you're not making any sense, rather you are causing misunderstanding of the points that you are trying to get across.

No my dear Globalization originates from right of equality and shrinking of world due to scientific growth . world is no more a place of geographical and socially isolated societies .. now anyone have right to start his economical Ideas and sell anywhere in the world , without any prejudice and biased economical laws..

err.. actually it does originate from the imperialistic desires of western empires, spanish and portuguese actually. with western empires invading large chunks of territories and peoples coming from different civilizations, people were actually forced to follow the ways of their conquerors, as history shows us. the conquered imitate their conquerors. that's why english, spanish, french is so widespread. as for globalization of economics, we're not discussing this. please don't change the subject. we are discussing globalization in socio-cultural views.

Uneducated and Illiterate ppl shall be educated . this world shall not be run by ignorant and uneducated ppl anymore.
Customs ,cultures , Traditions and religion are for humans and not the other way (humans are for customs ,cultures, traditions and religion)

i hate to break it to you, but i seriously don't think that's happening anytime soon. sorry, but that's just how the world is right now.

your Point here is that Democracy is opposite of Islam (for Majority) . I dont think so .. religion is an personal faith (for an individual) while democracy is a system to run a society (made of many individuals).
democracy makes it possible for various individual (of different Faith) to co exists together peacefully . now the problem comes when personal faith tries to force it on everyone .

actually the islamic system of governing is not democracy, but very similar. as for democracy making it possible for various faiths to blend, that's bull. i've seen communism do a better job at that.

yes -Bibles says world is Flat and and Christians always belived it till science proved it otherwise and most of the world not only rejected that old point .. but this also lead to reform .. now Jesus is not the only patented trademark of goodness.. you can be an atheist in western civilization .

what does western civilization have to do with christianity? what are you trying to prove here, that christianity has evolved and fits in perfectly? europe was in its dark ages when christianity was in the form of governance. it did not change for hundreds of years, until the church was separated from state.

You are confused .No one is forcing science on religion .. religion is a personal faith ..
no one stops anyone from believing the bible that World is flat , but it stops faith to force it on others who want to believe in scientific truth .
let everyone have there own faith till it doesnt intrude in others belief .

no sir, you are confusing yourself even more. we're not talking about science and religion, stop trying to make it look that way. besides, the qur'an does not make statements like what you describe that is in the bible. we don't have to deal with this stuff.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

Lol dont get angry .. lets debate and discuss ..
I am curious , are you from any Madarasa ? because you are contradicting yourself ..
first you say there is no universal truth applicable for every human .. then you will say Islam is the universal truth for every humans lol ..

let's not resort to insults here, please keep this clear and straight to the point. i never said islam is the universal truth for every human, although i believe it is. rather i took islam's growth rate and made a correlation to the growing "radicalism" in the muslim community to show how this could possibly be an obstacle to the process of socio-cultural globalization.

my friend if we all live with our "perception ", no one will study science for knowledge and we all would have been in dark ages ..
there is world consensus on what is right .. like "Law of gravity " , or "one shall not steal or Lie " and where individual perception doesn't matter

i've mentioned this to you before, we are not having a scientific debate here. this has nothing to do with science. Please I beg of you, stop copying and pasting your posts over and over again.

No i am no preaching here , we are discussing here and learning from each other .. thats the essence of human communication .. and who are you to proclaim as the "voice of all muslims" that they are not accepting ?
and No islam is not the fastest growing religion .. in fact there are muslims in hundreds loosing there faith .. not even in west but else where .
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2006/05/six_million_african_muslims_le.html

your link isn't working, but i know what you are trying to get at. luckily i've been asked the same question before. if you want to throw links to prove statistics about growth rate of islam, you're only wasting your time. i could do the same, for example, Muslims say their faith growing fast in Africa
in the west islam is growing rapidly, but what about in muslim countries, you ask? islam is having a greater effect on muslim's lives than it was anywhere from 80-20 years ago. although the thread i am about to mention has nothing to do with religious zeal, it still points to pretty interesting stuff. for example you can read the article in this thread( http://www.defence.pk/forums/wmd-missiles/8319-nuclear-assets-safe-army-s-hands-says-musharraf.html ) , inside pakistan's drive..., especially the first paragraph.

you are confused between imperialism and globalization .. I request you to please study and get your confusion clear first ..

you should read up on this stuff a little more, try to understand concepts, they usually tell you to do that in the bottom-left corner of the page in history books. globalization stems from imperialism, it's actually the by-product of imperialism. there is sufficient proof for you in your own homeland.

No my dear .. it is happening now .. look at Taliban and Al Qaeda getting kicked . world is refusing to accpet the ways and commands of ignorance .. and thats why there is WOT and althought final result have yet to come .. till now World is winning over ignorance ..

didn't i tell you to pay attention to current events? the taliban controls half of afghanistan and now is gaining even more influence. the US needs to send 3000 troops to afghanistan and has failed to get germany to do the same.

Yes christanity has lost its arrogance and medieval thinking .. where it thought that they have all the right to rule the world.. anyone who opposes Christianity and Jesus is not burned or killed .. thats evolution my dear ..

i don't need to reply to statements like these, you have waisted my time for about two days now.

 

[Quwa]

Logic note, cut the personal insults and discuss the issue properly.

My dear , there is a universal truth .. and Ethics is the way to achieve it .
I will give an example - Dont steal , Dont Lie ,. these are Universal truths and they will never change whatever the time of Place is .

There is a difference between "PERCEPTION" and "TRUTH"
we may have different perception of everything( which is the result of ignorance) .. but that doesn't mean we cant learn and reach the final "Truth"

ALso even in Science there is constant effort to find a "THEORY OF EVERYTHING" the universal truth ..
so please get over your individual "perception" of right and wrong ..
and it is very simple - Behave with others that way you want others to behave with you .

Those very ethics were handed down to us through prophets and gods under a non-wordly document. However the wordly aspect of our lives does have very different ideas in how we ought to govern..."survival of the..."? "colonialism"?..."booty...?"...those are all forms of theft and coercion, and can be sanctioned legal by law regardless of where it is ethical or not. The only form law that cannot be 'modified' or changed regardless of what the public thinks is divine law.

no my dear its not western world .. its Modern world .. in which every society and every nation contributed .
Ruled the world for 900 years ?? first your definition of "world" is naive .. and does might make it right ? and western world ruled after 1800 .. do they become right ?? before Islam .. Egypt and there Religion ruled ,, so does the rome and Greece ..
Islamic laws worked in that Medivial time .. and the reason there is such a struggle because they have become obsolete ..

Take a good day to read up on how the Western world came to rule the world. It has much to do with pure luck than any evolutionary concept. It is very slave'ish of you believe that evolution must take an ethno-centric spin than any other. Take a good look at how natives were treated by the West; how blacks were treated by whites; how the South in general suffered for the North. Your mentality is very much 17th century Western, but definitely not modern or rational by any stretch.

[No my dear Globalization originates from right of equality and shrinking of world due to scientific growth . world is no more a place of geographical and socially isolated societies .. now anyone have right to start his economical Ideas and sell anywhere in the world , without any prejudice and biased economical laws..

Uneducated and Illiterate ppl shall be educated . this world shall not be run by ignorant and uneducated ppl anymore.
Customs ,cultures , Traditions and religion are for humans and not the other way (humans are for customs ,cultures, traditions and religion)

Bullshit. Globalization originates from the idea of intense interdependance and cross-effects - e.g. the actions of one person in North America affecting the actions of another in Africa. Globalization is a process that promotes this effect to produce the condition of globality. While ideas can be shared and proliferated - theoretically - one cannot deny that the mix of socio-economic, technological and ideological-support advantages of the West/North dictate what ideas float.

Unfortunately to the West/North an uneducated and illiterate mass suits them, and it suits them better with ignorant fools like you representing that mass. It takes self realization and self recognition to succeed, and that requires resistance to cultural hegemony of one society.

When discussing Islam, note that religion and culture are seperate entities. Culture is wordly and secular...religion is divine and transcends all cultures, ideas and systems.

yes -Bibles says world is Flat and and Christians always belived it till science proved it otherwise and most of the world not only rejected that old point .. but this also lead to reform .. now Jesus is not the only patented trademark of goodness.. you can be an atheist in western civilization .

Wrong.

There is a reason why medieval paintings show Kings and Queens holding a SPHERE with a cross on it...they knew the world was round. Columbus wasn't trying to prove the world was round, but rather find another way to India in which folks thought would be risky.

 

[Logic note]

let's not resort to insults here, please keep this clear and straight to the point.

My dear Friend I am sorry if I was harsh with my words ..
so lets get back to this discussion .

i never said islam is the universal truth for every human, although i believe it is. .

you believe .. that means you agree that there is universal truth .. and individual perception comes with ignorance ..
I think you shall read Immanual Kant .. you will understand this concept of universal truth and individual perception ..

this was the major problem in Human thinking .. "How do I know that what i think is right is actually right ?" and this is question about the nature of conscience has motivated the world to question itself and grow ..

've mentioned this to you before, we are not having a scientific debate here. this has nothing to do with science. Please I beg of you, stop copying and pasting your posts over and over again.

Dear friend ,
Science is a way to investigate and know truth .. where we question our perception and investigate .so what's wrong if it is a scientific truth ..
tell me whats the problem ..

your link isn't working, but i know what you are trying to get at. luckily i've been asked the same question before. if you want to throw links to prove statistics about growth rate of islam, you're only wasting your time. i could do the same, for example, Muslims say their faith growing fast in Africa
in the west islam is growing rapidly, but what about in muslim countries, you ask? islam is having a greater effect on muslim's lives than it was anywhere from 80-20 years ago. although the thread i am about to mention has nothing to do with religious zeal, it still points to pretty interesting stuff. for example you can read the article in this thread( Nuclear assets safe in army’s hands, says Musharraf ) , inside pakistan's drive..., especially the first paragraph.

well i gave you that link just to clear your wrong individual perception .

you should read up on this stuff a little more, try to understand concepts, they usually tell you to do that in the bottom-left corner of the page in history books. globalization stems from imperialism, it's actually the by-product of imperialism. there is sufficient proof for you in your own homeland.

can you please explain how .. please just commenting is not good enough

didn't i tell you to pay attention to current events? the taliban controls half of afghanistan and now is gaining even more influence. the US needs to send 3000 troops to afghanistan and has failed to get germany to do the same.

lol the truth is Taliban is running with there tail between there legs ..
Taliban field commander killed in Helmand province - The Long War Journal

don't need to reply to statements like these, you have waisted my time for about two days now.

I can say the same thing ... because instead of facing the truth , you have been avoiding every topic .. .. may be defending the indefensible makes u behave this way ..

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

you believe .. that means you agree that there is universal truth .. and individual perception comes with ignorance ..
I think you shall read Immanual Kant .. you will understand this concept of universal truth and individual perception ..

"you believe .. that means you agree that there is universal truth" Please sir, listen to yourself.

Dear friend ,
Science is a way to investigate and know truth .. where we question our perception and investigate .so what's wrong if it is a scientific truth ..
tell me whats the problem ..

are you trying to show us that science has provided us ethics? this isn't about science, but it's about people's understanding of what is right/wrong. it's about morals, values, etc.

can you please explain how .. please just commenting is not good enough

"you should read up on this stuff a little more, try to understand concepts, they usually tell you to do that in the bottom-left corner of the page in history books. globalization stems from imperialism, it's actually the by-product of imperialism. there is sufficient proof for you in your own homeland." please don't change the subject by focusing on the last sentence of the paragraph. you should focus on the point that this paragraph is trying to get across. it says, understand concepts.

lol the truth is Taliban is running with there tail between there legs ..
Taliban field commander killed in Helmand province - The Long War Journal

how many commanders have been killed before him? does that stop them from gaining more support? again, i would like to clarify that i don't support them. i'm only using this as an example to show you something.

I can say the same thing ... because instead of facing the truth , you have been avoiding every topic .. .. may be defending the indefensible makes u behave this way ..

you are testing my patience.

 

[Logic note]

Logic note, cut the personal insults and discuss the issue properly.Those very ethics were handed down to us through prophets and gods under a non-wordly document..

Ethics are inherent in human nature .. ethics doesnt need any god or prophets
even Athiests have ethics ..

However the wordly aspect of our lives does have very different ideas in how we ought to govern..."survival of the..."? olonialism"?..."booty...?"...those are all forms of theft and coercion, and can be sanctioned legal by law regardless of where it is ethical or not.

these are scientific and economical theories ,, proposd by few ppl and not sanctioned law
there are equal number of ppl who are aginst these .now its your understanding of ethics and respect of humanity wheather you accpet them as part of your society or not.
by the way if you know any country or state where these are part of law plz enlighten me

The only form law that cannot be 'modified' or changed regardless of what the public thinks is divine law.

The only form law that cannot be 'modified' or changed regardless of what the public thinks is Ethics
and ethics has its origin in human nature not divinity . human goodness
was there before Jesus and prophet Muhammad
lol and by the way whats divine law is ?? plz enlighten me ???

Take a good day to read up on how the Western world came to rule the world. It has much to
do with pure luck than any evolutionary concept. It is very slave'ish of you believe that evolution
must take an ethno-centric spin than any other. Take a good look at how natives were treated by the West; how blacks were treated by whites; how the South in general suffered for the North. Your mentality is very much 17th century Western, but definitely not modern or rational by
any stretch.

ppl are not judged by there past mistakes but by there present behaviour ..because ppl learn and reform .. if I take your advice no human will ever have faith in others.. and by the way every civilization had their brutal path .. including islamic civilization .
shall we judge them by there past ??

you examples of racism and past imperialism to justify your dislike for west shows your 1st century mentality

Bullshit. Globalization originates from the idea of intense interdependance and cross-effects - e.g. the actions of one person in North America affecting the actions of another in Africa. Globalization is a process that promotes this effect to produce the condition of globality. While ideas can be shared and proliferated - theoretically -

so you agree that Globalization originates from interdepence and ideas can originate anywhere In Korea , Japan or in India and as a result smart enterprenuers all over the world are making money ..from China to India ..

its the so called western world which is fearing the globalization , from subsidy to its farmer to shifting of Jobs to India and China ..

one cannot deny that the mix of socio-economic, technological and ideological-support advantages of the West/North dictate what ideas float.

no one expects anyone to handover its existing power to challengers, you have to compete and its law of economics .

Unfortunately to the West/North an uneducated and illiterate mass suits them, and it suits them better with ignorant fools like you representing that mass.

this seems to be your naive prejudice and foolish arrogance

When discussing Islam, note that religion and culture are seperate entities. Culture is wordly and secular...religion is divine and transcends all cultures, ideas and systems.

what makes so called religion divine ?? your perception ?? can you plz z explain ?so no one can question the medivial beliefs of religion .? whats you name Osama bin laden Jr ? you are propogating and supporting the dictatorship of religion .

wrong There is a reason why medieval paintings show Kings and Queens holding a SPHERE with a cross on it...they knew the world was round. Columbus wasn't trying to prove the world was round, but rather
find another way to India in which folks thought would be risky.

you seems to be a slave of your perception Mark ..
you called it wrong , without knowing it ..
here it is , read it an
http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_flat.htm

 

[Logic note]

"you believe .. that means you agree that there is universal truth" Please sir, listen to yourself.

yes it looks like .. i am talking to my self because other person is so full of himself and his ignorance that he cant hear anything

are you trying to show us that science has provided us ethics? this isn't about science, but it's about people's understanding of what is right/wrong. it's about morals, values, etc.

My dear friend , its you who have to tell me whats your objection with Scientific method. and no again i said if Individual perception can be taken as the way to live life then Hitler and Osama will be justified for their actions.

"you should read up on this stuff a little more, try to understand concepts, they usually tell you to do that in the bottom-left corner of the page in history books. globalization stems from imperialism, it's actually the by-product of imperialism. there is sufficient proof for you in your own homeland." please don't change the subject by focusing on the last sentence of the paragraph. you should focus on the point that this paragraph is trying to get across. it says, understand concepts.

again you ddnt explain .. you just wrote your perception that Globalization originates from imperialism and I shall see in my country ??
so if you can see it .. why dont you explain ..

how many commanders have been killed before him? does that stop them from gaining more support? again, i would like to clarify that i don't support them. i'm only using this as an example to show you something.

and what are u showing me ?? that ignorance is in majority in certain pockets ,where poor kids who cant afford proper education are sent to Madrasas for brain washing and sent to be killed.. and this is accepted in the name of local culture ??

you are testing my patience.

Lol ..there is little Taliban inside you ..

 

[Quwa]

Ethics are inherent in human nature .. ethics doesnt need any god or prophets
even Athiests have ethics ..

Ethics are scribed within both secular and divine law. Problem with secular law is that it can be changed and ethics can mean squat. Divine law - as horrid as it may seem to you - doesn't offer that luxury to anyone, unless we bring in the issues of corruption and defilement.

these are scientific and economical theories ,, proposd by few ppl and not sanctioned law

there are equal number of ppl who are aginst these .now its your understanding of ethics and respect of humanity wheather you accpet them as part of your society or not.
by the way if you know any country or state where these are part of law plz enlighten me

Clear your arguments, at least use some proper English structure...you're just babbling.

The only form law that cannot be 'modified' or changed regardless of what the public thinks is Ethics

What do you think adultery, politics and "bad faith" mean?

and ethics has its origin in human nature not divinity . human goodness
was there before Jesus and prophet Muhammad

Yes, and prophets have been around before Jesus and Muhammad...the first man on Earth was a prophet.

lol and by the way whats divine law is ?? plz enlighten me ???

What we sanction as God's law.

ppl are not judged by there past mistakes but by there present behaviour ..because ppl learn and reform .. if I take your advice no human will ever have faith in others.. and by the way every civilization had their brutal path .. including islamic civilization .
shall we judge them by there past ??

Why not? People ought to be judged for their past if the present folks refuse to accept it. I will not deny that Muslim leaders committed crimes in the past, yet do explain the magnitude of those crimes in comparison to Western imperialism and colonialism which many see as the biggest plague today.

you examples of racism and past imperialism to justify your dislike for west shows your 1st century mentality

The above statement shows me your immaturity, ignorance and total disregard of history. Go....hmm....educate yourself.

so you agree that Globalization originates from interdepence and ideas can originate anywhere In Korea , Japan or in India and as a result smart enterprenuers all over the world are making money ..from China to India ..

You do not wear a dhoti to work, I do not sport a beard...there are attitudes and beliefs which become dominant due to force and coercion.

its the so called western world which is fearing the globalization , from subsidy to its farmer to shifting of Jobs to India and China ..

Then your scope is extremely limited and polarized. There are aspects of globalization such as the majority South and global governance that the West fears...there are others such as TNCs and centralized financial & political influence that suits them.

no one expects anyone to handover its existing power to challengers, you have to compete and its law of economics .

"Law of economics" itself is not fully realized...rather the law of production and capitalism is used and has done plenty of damage to the world.

this seems to be your naive prejudice and foolish arrogance

If you have to bring this up 3 times in every post, then you ought to stop talking and get lost.

what makes so called religion divine ?? your perception ?? can you plz z explain ?so no one can question the medivial beliefs of religion .? whats you name Osama bin laden Jr ? you are propogating and supporting the dictatorship of religion .

In bold for extra emphasis...to show everyone how not to debate. Medieval beliefs of religion? Religion has been around since Day one...

you seems to be a slave of your perception Mark ..
you called it wrong , without knowing it ..
here it is , read it an
http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_flat.htm

Just go to a university lecture on Medieval times for one day.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

yes it looks like .. i am talking to my self because other person is so full of himself and his ignorance that he cant hear anything
My dear friend , its you who have to tell me whats your objection with Scientific method. and no again i said if Individual perception can be taken as the way to live life then Hitler and Osama will be justified for their actions.

look at your at your posts. although i repeatedly tell you that i am not arguing about science, you think of me disregarding science while making ethical decisions. my intention was to try explain to you that most people see things differently. it was a matter of ethics, morals, values and that these things can be influenced by any religion, traditions, customs, etc. science has nothing to do with morals, values, ethics. keep in mind that globalization has many aspects, we are discussing socio-culture aspect.

again you ddnt explain .. you just wrote your perception that Globalization originates from imperialism and I shall see in my country ??
so if you can see it .. why dont you explain ..

I see that millions of people speak english, wear clothes introduced by englishmen. this is the process of globalisation, in socio-cultural point of view, the merging of all people into one global community. however, one doesn't need to look far to see that this is the result of western imperialism.

and what are u showing me ?? that ignorance is in majority in certain pockets ,where poor kids who cant afford proper education are sent to Madrasas for brain washing and sent to be killed.. and this is accepted in the name of local culture ??
Lol ..there is little Taliban inside you ..

if you look through all of my posts, you'll find that the main point i am trying to get across is that everyone has different views of what is right/wrong, whether culture, traditions, religion, or whatever influence them to be that way. as soon as I mention religious zeal on the rise within the muslim community, you accuse me of being and extremist and associated with the taliban? let's look at your perceptions, what are you trying to point to here? in our debate, you keep on sending little signals that i am a religious extremist.
you resort to taunts and insults, anyone reading this thread will see that you're ignorant. you remind me of the ignorant fascist freaks I've debated with who stop at nothing to link islam with terror. I realized at that time there's no point debating with idiots. Now, I'm starting to realize there's no point in trying to reason with you.
I've mentioned earlier, there's no point in debating what is right and wrong. however, to prove your point, you have done nothing, but use the same pathetic arguments.