Unironically: Could declaring Sharia Law in Pakistan solve it's insurgency problem?

[Sayfullah]

I didn’t answer your question coz you are not getting where I’m coming from and I certainly don’t want to go where you want to entangle me coz religious discussions are not allowed and get flamed though I have better answer to that than your imagination.

Well, majority of Pakistanis think like me.
We put religion before anything else.
If I don’t understand where you’re coming from, others like me won’t either.
Why go against the majority of the country and further alienate the majority?
This thread was about Shariah (religious) so if you want to avoid religious discussion it’s best not to engage in a thread created to talk about a religious issue.

 

[Signalian]

Ok.
In your opinion: Jinnah did not want Shariah in Pakistan
Fact: Allah says in the Quran and, the Prophet Rasulallah (ﷺ) tells us that we must rule by Shariah.

I didn’t imply that so don’t assume on your own. Jinnah had a better understanding than others how Pakistan should be led towards prosperity.

Now you are comparing achievements. What the Sahaba achieved or the Caliphate achieved is very visible in our everyday lives. I won’t even go on comparing it because it would be unfair to compare.

My question to you:
Will you be satisfied to follow Jinnah’s vision for Pakistan over anything else regardless of what it is?

In Pakistan’s case, yes.

Or let me ask you a better question:
God forbid, if you in the Pakistan army were shot in battle with india and about to be martyred, what would be the last words be before you pass away? Will they include Jinnah’s name?

You should watch videos of war or read books of battles to get to know their last words in war.

 

[Sayfullah]

Oh God guide the Muslims of the world especially Pakistan.

Fixed it for you

 

[Signalian]

Well, majority of Pakistanis think like me.
We put religion before anything else.
If I don’t understand where you’re coming from, others like me won’t either.
Why go against the majority of the country and further alienate the majority?
This thread was about Shariah (religious) so if you want to avoid religious discussion it’s best not to engage in a thread created to talk about a religious issue.

Well I’m not in majority then and I’m happy to be unique.

Religion and its understanding is crucial but a moderate approach is even better, not extreme of any side.

I’m not bothered if others don’t get where I’m coming from, it’s not my issue. I’m confident regarding my thinking and views and that’s what matters to me.

Yeah threads like these usually get locked eventually but Its preferable to follow forum rules and I will put forward my views nonetheless though I’m not interested in a religious discussion

 

[Sayfullah]

I didn’t imply that so don’t assume on your own. Jinnah had a better understanding than others how Pakistan should be led towards prosperity.

Your words made me assume it.

In Pakistan’s case, yes.

Ok so let me ask you a simple yes or no question. Keeping Jinnah’s vision in mind, can Pakistan have Shariah?

You should watch videos of war or read books of battles to get to know their last words in war.

The last words are LA ILAHA ILLALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULALLAH. This is evidence they put Islam before everything. Islam tells us to rule by Shariah. So all these Shaheed support Shariah and die for Islam before all. Jinnah or no Jinnah they would still say LA ILAHA ILLALLAH MUHAMMADUR RASULALLAH when they are about to die.

 

[Sayfullah]

Well I’m not in majority then and I’m happy to be unique.

The Democracy of Pakistan means that majority rules even if it’s against Jinnah’s vision.

Religion and its understanding is crucial but a moderate approach is even better, not extreme of any side.

There’s Hadith telling us to NOT be extreme. I don’t preach or support extremism. But society has made what was seen as liberal years ago as extreme now. Maybe if society stayed in one place you won’t consider what I said as extreme. Anyways, what I said was only what is commanded to us Muslims.

I’m not bothered if others don’t get where I’m coming from, it’s not my issue. I’m confident regarding my thinking and views and that’s what matters to me

You’re more than welcome to share your views. I respect if others have different views than mine. But when opinions interfere with facts I side with facts. If those facts are commandments then I would carry them out irrespective of others opinions.

Yeah threads like these usually get locked eventually but Its preferable to follow forum rules and I will put forward my views nonetheless though I’m not interested in a religious discussion

You’re welcome to put your views on this forum. After all, forums are for discussions. However, if the thread is about religion, I will discuss religion and put forward what I know about the topic of the thread in any way.

 

[my2cents]

No, a lot of these ttp guys are running criminal enterprises, including the smuggling of opium, as they have been for decades. For them this isn't a religious fight, religion is just a convenient way for them to gain gullible recruits.

We feel the same way about Kashmir issue. You haven't done anything for your occupied part in last 75 years and only using religious brotherhood to recruit people to do jihad against India.

 

[AZMwi]

Please hear out my explanation below and then give your opinion.

The main insurgent groups in Pakistan are the TTP, followed by minor ethnonationalist groups like the BLA network. The TTP especially finds a lot of sympathy and support within Pakistani society, and is the most powerful destabilising element.

The reason for this can be linked back to Pakistan sitting on the fence with it's Islamic identity, it claims itself to be an Islamic state while having a practising Muslim majority population > 96%, but doesn't have have an integral governance structure of Islam. The Sharia Law.

So when a militant group comes along claiming to want to implement Sharia Law, people are subconsciously sympathetic towards them, because that's what an Islamic state inherently requires, and they don't see it present in Pakistan, no matter how much they are pro-state.

(A lot of the time this militant group has covert goals unrelated to Islam, for example the TTP is more of a Pashtun tribal insurgency hence it focuses on the FATA merger reversal, and is also labelled as a criminal organisation which extorts locals for money. The Sharia Law aspect is only used a selling point in society to gain support, but many people don't realise this)

So my question is, if Pakistan fully embraces it's Islamic identity without sitting on the fence, and makes Sharia Law official, it could fully gain back control and the state narrative would reign supreme.

Instantly any group that picks up arms against the state can confidently be labelled as Khawarijs, it will have the full support and trust of the people and their sympathies towards any militant groups will disappear immediately.

The state will have regained full control and the narrative will completely be on it's side against any group, including ethnonationalist groups.

Should Pakistan implement Sharia Law to get rid of all these destabilising elements and have the ability to crush down on them hard with a powerful narrative? Any insurgent group would become powerless in it's narrative.

If you're a Muslim, which the majority of Pakistan is, this should not be as a problem to you should it? If you believe in Islam then surely you believe in your God's governance system.

@Sayfullah @Mirzali Khan @villageidiot @Menace2Society @SaadH @kingQamaR @Areesh @Signalian @epebble @_NOBODY_ @PanzerKiel @hussain0216 @R2D2 @Al_Muhannad @akramishaqkhan @AZMwi @Great Janjua @Olympus81 @COOKie LOOkie....

can you please explain what is sharia law?? is there any book about sharia law???

 

[Ahmed_Bhai]

How have you concluded such a thing from a post suggesting that Sharia Law could possibly be the solution to a large chunk of Pakistan's problems?

You keep parroting the same line of the radical extremists back in the day who kept going on about an American war. The war has always been extremist ethnofacist Afghans. Since before the Americans entered, and a year after they left today.

You seem to be oblivious to the crimes of Afghanistan which is why you keep parroting the American line.

I made the post after perusing the forum in general.

If you and other new suspicious characters like you are hell bent upon reinventing the wheel(which Musharraf already invented and later in an Al Jazeera regretted). Then go ahead with it.

However I highly doubt that this time the people especially the pathans will be in a mood to tolerate our Jacobabad, Shamsi etc being given to Abbu Amreeka and the whole burden that came with those shenanigans.

The uncles have managed to expose themselves to another generation.

When did internet arrive in those areas?? In 2018/2019?? When PTI came to power?

Bro head over to remote far flung areas of Pakistan. It's like going back to 500BC takshashila/mohenjo daro. If you keep these people isolated and deprived of opportunities then this is bound to happen. Imagine if these folks were not picking up guns. But were running tech startups and doing software consulting/contracting for US/EU/Oceania or even Gulf countries?

Even when someone tries to start such an initiative that dude in Pakistan gets humiliated or blackmailed to the point he says "mere baap ki tauba" and runs back to whatever sane country he was in.

No, a lot of these ttp guys are running criminal enterprises, including the smuggling of opium, as they have been for decades. For them this isn't a religious fight, religion is just a convenient way for them to gain gullible recruits.

 

[Maula Jatt]

We feel the same way about Kashmir issue. You haven't done anything for your occupied part in last 75 years and only using religious brotherhood to recruit people to do jihad against India.

read the history of our region and then talk the talk
Kashmir never existed without the plains underneath it, it's one and the same in terms of its interconnected history, people-to-people relationship (migrant populations), and religious (shared saints)- it's not a religion only issue, religious similarity only indicates a wider cultural, historical issue

but I do not want to divert topics, I Just made a short and sweet point, please don't divert it further

 

[Ssan]

#1. Let suppose you implement sharia under Hanafi school of thought and You somehow able to bring bralvis, Deobandis and Ahl-hadees on the same page with carrots n stick, some give n take. Still you need to figure out where are you going to fit Shias in sharia law. Shias will oppose this because it will land them in hot water.

#2. Without the mind set of swift justices and accountability even Shira law will be useless to make any change. Sharia or no sharia, if there exists a robust punishment and reward system in any society it will thrive.

I think we already have an Islamic advisory council that has buyoff from all groups. The Shia Sunni dichotomy is overplayed here.

Did Jinnah envision sharia for Pakistan ?

Yes, he was the one that selected the committee that drafted the objectives resolution.

 

[Ssan]

Bro, in the context of nation-building, having precise definitions for terms is essential. When I think of "liberal" I am thinking of Adam Smith, John Locke, Thomas Hobbes, and so on (because I studied them).

The concept of being "liberal" comes from a rich tradition that leads society to go a certain way, but with Islam, it's different. With Islam, it's an issue of what God allows and doesn't allow. It isn't "liberal" or even "conservative", but a unique paradigm.

For example, Islam has rules on how the economy should work, e.g., prohibiting private hands from owning mineral wealth, natural resources, etc, but discouraging a "nanny-state" or "welfare state" that doles out money to people who don't work for it. It doesn't have a leaning, but just marches to the beat of its own drum/duff.

Islam has had many liberal-esque ideas. But beyond that, in the scholastic sense, you have liberally inclined and otherwise ideas as well.

Liberal, technically, only makes sense from the perspective of European politics. We don’t really come from that tradition so it doesn’t make sense necessarily. But if I am not mistaken liberal movements in Europe primarily limited the power of the monarch for those of the citizen.

Pakistan was founded by people who had similar liberal ideas. People like Syed Sulaiman Nadwi, student of Shibli Nomani, who pushed for the idea of an Islamic democracy. Add to that the idea of going back to a maqasid sharia based approach to law.

So yes islam is not liberal in the sense of peena peelana as is understood as liberal in Pakistan. But frankly what Pakistanis see as liberal or modern is neither in the first place. Our current ideas are stupid.

Actually, the founders of Pakistan were thorough intellectuals. People like Jinnah, Iqbal, heck even people like Muhammad Asad. The people who replaced them following assassination of Liaquat Ali, much less so.

 

[doorstar]

Unironically: Could declaring Sharia Law in Pakistan solve it's insurgency problem?

which version of shariat is it gonna be? only an indian mind will assume that Islam is a monolith. in reality it is very diverse country both religiously and ethnically.

 

[Kambojaric]

Taliban and ISIS, two "shariah" implementing factions are literally fighting a war next door. You can call yourself riyaset e madina, sharialand etc. It won't matter to people of a takfiri and khwariji mentality. They can justify murder of fellow Muslims by claiming the others were misguided. The only way to fight them is two pronged.

a) Give them no legitimacy, this only strengthens them in the long run. Instead resist and fight them.
b) Grow your economy and provide potential sympathises with the comforts of a healthy financial situation. Unstable times breed extremism (read Wiemar Republic).

Unfortunately we have failed miserably on both fronts.

 

[Novus ordu seclorum]

which version of shariat is it gonna be? only an indian mind will assume that Islam is a monolith. in reality it is very diverse country both religiously and ethnically.

And, only a Pakistani mind assumes Indian mind is a monolith?? Sharia is based on the Quran and Sunnah which unequivocally reject racism - there is no difference of opinion on that. However, racism driven by nationalism is ironically a daily staple here.