Shame on United States of America

[longbrained]

Do not fall for his lies, he is speaking out of sheer frustration and hatred.

The cult leader proclaimed himself as the messiah.

He required of every man in the cult to practice abstinence, so he could procreate with their wives.

Marriageable age in the cult was 11-12, and many children that age testified to have been married to him, and the marriage consummated too.

I am sure such things are not crazy for someone like the thread opener, but in the norm they are considered not only crazy, but also outright criminal.

Those are US regime propaganda you used, again. The assault on the community was started on pretext of finding liquor and weapons. But when they went in and killed all the babies, then they claimed it was because of sexual deviation of the group. Pathetic, much like Iraq war scenario. Killing one year old babies and pregnant women is never rational.

 

[VCheng]

Those are US regime propaganda you used, again. The assault on the community was started on pretext of finding liquor and weapons. But when they went in and killed all the babies, then they claimed it was because of sexual deviation of the group. Pathetic, much like Iraq war scenario. Killing one year old babies and pregnant women is never rational.

So I assume you are equally concerned about the pregnant Chechnyan woman shot dead in Quetta? Where was your moral prism then? Or is it merely selective?

 

[muse]

Longbrained

This was just the wrong subject - I would have picked the neocon duplicity - the attack on Iraq, the whole WMD lies - the way the entire populace bought it -- the way you can pretty much sell anything to Americans as long as you can scare them about the Muzlum menace and homegrown terrorists and such -- there is so much and you choose "freedom of religion" in the US?? And especially this Branch Davidians thing - just a wrong choice - create another thread in which you can actually have multiple sources

 

[longbrained]

Longbrained

This was just the wrong subject - I would have picked the neocon duplicity - the attack on Iraq, the whole WMD lies - the way the entire populace bought it -- the way you can pretty much sell anything to Americans as long as you can scare them about the Muzlum menace and homegrown terrorists and such -- there is so much and you choose "freedom of religion" in the US?? And especially this Branch Davidians thing - just a wrong choice - create another thread in which you can actually have multiple sources

No, it is the perfect subject matching YOUR thread on the same subject in Iran. Another Davidians lookalike in Iran trying to do their thing. Muse, do you think killing of one year baby girls and pregnant ladies is morally justified? Do you? Under which circumstances would it become morally justified according to you? Why this thread is not appropriate, because it hurts you emotionally or rationally?

 

[longbrained]

So I assume you are equally concerned about the pregnant Chechnyan woman shot dead in Quetta? Where was your moral prism then? Or is it merely selective?

I condemned it in the that thread. You can go and read it. So did all Pakistanis. And Pakistan supreme court not only condemned it but has also initiated proceedings to punish people involved in that. Waco on the other hand was not Quetta, it was a well thought out operation involving tanks, helicopters gunships etc. running for days. Quetta was just a rush few minutes. In Pakistan it got investigated. In Waco US regime covered it up and lied. Now you stay on topic or I will report you.

 

[VCheng]

I condemned it in the that thread. You can go and read it. So did all Pakistanis. And Pakistan supreme court not only condemned it but has also initiated proceedings to punish people involved in that. Waco on the other hand was not Quetta, it was a well thought out operation involving tanks, helicopters gunships etc. running for days. Quetta was just a rush few minutes. In Pakistan it got investigated. In Waco US regime covered it up and lied. Now you stay on topic or I will report you.

Oh, you mean the US government went to great lengths to ensure that the rule of law remained supreme? Just like in the Swat operation in Pakistan?

Since the topic involves "moral prisms", perhaps you should consider using it in Pakistan first, given that local conditions are given greater precedence by Islam.

 

[muse]

OK, yaara - it's perfect.

Muse, do you think killing of one year baby girls and pregnant ladies is morally justified? Do you? Under which circumstances would it become morally justified according to you?

Certainly not!

Why this thread is not appropriate, because it hurts you emotionally or rationally?

That's an unnecessarily angry statement - you can and should disagree with a position that you think has not been articulated well or defended as best it could be, but why would you want to go personal with me?

So why is the thread in appropriate? Because what you have chosen is a cult, and a botched up FBI operation, there's no good guys or bad guys to chose between the two.

 

[longbrained]

OK, yaara - it's perfect.

That's an unnecessarily angry statement - you can and should disagree with a position that you think has not been articulated well or defended as best it could be, but why would you want to go personal with me?

So why is the thread in appropriate? Because what you have chosen is a cult, and a botched up FBI operation, there's no good guys or bad guys to chose between the two.

No, I am not angry. I keep my cool when I am having my arguments and in a rational discussion I never get emotional. Maybe because you are angry, you think I am too, but am not.

It is not a cult at all. You see if you read my first post, I said that we are going to discuss it through prism of morality which tells us that killing one year old babies is not justifiable under any circumstances. The accusations of cult only came after the massacre had occurred and not before it. So it is propaganda. You are repeating the arguments of US media necessity prism with regard to this slaughter. This thread is about discussing it through a moral prism. So if you have any thing to add, through moral prism please be my guest. Otherwise, you used moral prism in the other thread and you are using the necessity prism here. Your actions are not compatible with each other. Iran has not yet gone to kill the fake pastor and use tank bombardment over his house killing his babies. Yet you used moral prism there. And you have an issue with me using moral prism over killings of infants in this thread. What is the matter? Why are you angry? Why you think this thread and discussing the killing of one year old babies who happened be born in a davidian sect is a problem? Why not apply moral prism here? Is moral prism only for Pakistan?

 

[muse]

. So if you have any thing to add, through moral prism please be my guest. Otherwise, you used moral prism in the other thread and you are using the necessity prism here. Your actions are not compatible with each other. Iran has not yet gone to kill the fake pastor and use tank bombardment over his house killing his babies. Yet you used moral prism there. And you have an issue with me using moral prism over killings of infants in this thread. What is the matter? Why are you angry? Why you think this thread and discussing the killing of one year old babies who happened be born in a davidian sect is a problem? Why not apply moral prism here? Is moral prism only for Pakistan?

You may have missed it but I said I did not think that killing babies is the way to go -and that the FBI operation was botched.

You've raised the question of a moral prism -- think of that word "prism" - and yet you offer just one facet of that prism to your readers, especially me -- The Davidians choose to confront the FBI with weapons, they were not charged with Apostasy or any sin construed as a crime, the FBI botched that operation and Mr. Naderkhani submitted to arrest and trail for Apostasy peacefully.

And let me add that the US sucks the big one and I condemn the killing of babies, pregnant women, etc and while I'm at it, the FBI for their botched up operation, and of course the US legal system, and of course the US populace - I condemn them all - any joy?

 

[888jamie888]

What a joke. Everything western is propaganda and everyone else is a western 'puppet'
Surely you realise that killing or even arresting someone because of their religion is wrong?

 

[VCheng]

What a joke. Everything western is propaganda and everyone else is a western 'puppet'
Surely you realise that killing or even arresting someone because of their religion is wrong?

There is no joke in the present day situation in the world sadly, but if there is one to be found, it is surely not on the West.

 

[longbrained]

Imagine if such a thing would happen in a place like Iran or China. All these trolls here would go out of their way to call for a nuclear war against these nations. But since this genocide was done in United States, it suddenly is ok, and should be forgotten while we should focus on to spread Christianity in Iran and China and support a rapist Pastor in Iran. What a joke.

 

[VCheng]

Imagine if such a thing would happen in a place like Iran or China. ...............

How about what is happening in Syria these days? Does that fulfill your criteria for genocide?

 

[roadrunner]

america is a known quantity. many foreign people live there.

iran is a relatively unknown quantity. most iranians in the west come up with anti-iran stories anyway. so it's easier for people to swallow stories that iranians eat each other, rather than americans do.

 

[VCheng]

america is a known quantity. many foreign people live there.

iran is a relatively unknown quantity. most iranians in the west come up with anti-iran stories anyway. so it's easier for people to swallow stories that iranians eat each other, rather than americans do.

"Better the devil you know than the devil you don't!"