Shahed-136 - Tracking usage & expanding understanding.

[Philosopher]

UAVs in the TB-2, Mohajer-6 , Shahed-129, Predator, Heron etc class do not survive in areas where potent air defense and radar coverage is present. Radar finds them pretty easily.

S-136 is a low cost low flying ultra low RCS drone used as basically loitering cruise missiles to penetrate air defense zones.

Yes, that's why I said it is a much more potent weapon. It can be used in more or less any sort of conflict whereas systems like Mojaher are much more restricted and require less contested air spaces.

Ukrainians would wish they had systems like Shahed-136 in mass numbers.

 

[TheImmortal]

Yes, that's why I said it is a much more potent weapon. It can be used in more or less any sort of conflict whereas systems like Mojaher are much more restricted and require less contested air spaces.

Ukrainians would wish they had systems like Shahed-136 in mass numbers.

A next gen version should be built. 150KM/h is much too slow. If Iran can build an economical microjet like what is used in its cruise missile, the detection rate and interception will fall even more as it moves closer to 500KM/h. Sound radiation would also be greatly reduced.

 

[Philosopher]

A next gen version should be built. 150KM/h is much too slow. If Iran can build an economical microjet like what is used in its cruise missile, the detection rate and interception will fall even more as it moves closer to 500KM/h. Sound radiation would also be greatly reduced.

I would not be surprised if they have already build these next gen versions but will reveal them once they have produced them in numbers. I mentioned this in another thread as well but that Paveh missile is also something the enemies of Iran should be very concerned about, and they are. Although more expensive than the Shahed-136, I am sure it is much cheaper than other comparable cruise missiles. The microjet engine used in those is something Iran even managed to get to the Houthis to make their own cruise missiles (Quds-1 missile) so we can only imagine how many IRGC could produce. The IRGC is probably already producing them in large numbers. I would not be surprised if we end up seeing it in the Ukraine conflict at some point.

The Ukraine conflict is not only allowing us to sell our weapons to the Russians and possibly gain technologies in return as well, but we also get to test out our systems there. The more battle tested weapons Iran develops, the bigger the markets for its weapons become.

 

[Stryker1982]

UAVs in the TB-2, Mohajer-6 , Shahed-129, Predator, Heron etc class do not survive in areas where potent air defense and radar coverage is present. Radar finds them pretty easily.

S-136 is a low cost low flying ultra low RCS drone used as basically loitering cruise missiles to penetrate air defense zones.

The idea behind S-136 and early adoption in very large scale by Iran was a very good decision, and throughout this war, it will continue to be used and continue to be the most cost effective smart munition. That's what I like so much about it.

My main curiosity was wondering how well the body of a S-161/171 would hold up near the front, and if it can evade detection for long periods of time. More importantly how well they can operate deeper behind the front to search for radars.

 

[TheImmortal]

My main curiosity was wondering how well the body of a S-161/171 would hold up near the front, and if it can evade detection for long periods of time. More importantly how well they can operate deeper behind the front to search for radars.

Israel hasn’t had trouble detecting S-161/71 (RQ170 spin-offs). They may do well in Ukraine since it is not nearly as radar dense as Israel. Israel maybe the densest radar and air defense zone in the world due to massive amounts of radar and SAMs in relation to its small size.

Thus you will need something with F-35 level RCS or lower to reliably penetrate a place like Israel via drone or CM. I’m sure Iran has figured this out with various probing drone incidents for last several years.

 

[TheImmortal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669026967050493957

 

[925boy]

A next gen version should be built. 150KM/h is much too slow. If Iran can build an economical microjet like what is used in its cruise missile, the detection rate and interception will fall even more as it moves closer to 500KM/h. Sound radiation would also be greatly reduced.

The drone you're indirectly referencing here is Arash 2, but Ukraine is already getting DESTROYED by Shahed 136s, so i guess Russia either didnt order Arashs from Iran, or is keeping them in reserve for later.

If Russia unleashes Arash 2s on Ukraine, Ukraine will go to hell, literally.

Israel hasn’t had trouble detecting S-161/71 (RQ170 spin-offs).

but Israel had had problems intercepting crude Hamas and PIJ rockets recently.

They may do well in Ukraine since it is not nearly as radar dense as Israel.

so that would be too advanced for Ukraine's AD and military infrastructure, which is badly degraded.

Israel maybe the densest radar and air defense zone in the world due to massive amounts of radar and SAMs in relation to its small size.

so why is ISrael's interception rates of Gaza rockets reducing with every war/border exchanges? This year Israel intercepted probably no more than 70% of Hamas and Palestinian rockets- thats low for how many are shot at Israel, please stop hyping Israel's military up, especially when its actual battle performance is worsening, and Israel hasnt faced Hezbollah rockets since 2006 either.

 

[glablo]

As expected, the Su-35 was not provided and Russia, as usual, preferred to curry favor with the US.
Iran no longer trusts Russia, and Arash2 and ballistic missiles will not be provided to Russia.

 

[TheImmortal]

As expected, the Su-35 was not provided and Russia, as usual, preferred to curry favor with the US.
Iran no longer trusts Russia, and Arash2 and ballistic missiles will not be provided to Russia.

Iran is still assisting with the production of a S-136 production line in Russia.

So I assume Iran got enough to warrant going ahead with that ToT line.

It could have been something as simple as cash/gold. Or more complicated like ToT in some field Iran has been seeking help in.

 

[TheImmortal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669479373672513538

 

[TheImmortal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669109260871954432

 

[Sineva]

Israel hasn’t had trouble detecting S-161/71 (RQ170 spin-offs). They may do well in Ukraine since it is not nearly as radar dense as Israel. Israel maybe the densest radar and air defense zone in the world due to massive amounts of radar and SAMs in relation to its small size.

Thus you will need something with F-35 level RCS or lower to reliably penetrate a place like Israel via drone or CM. I’m sure Iran has figured this out with various probing drone incidents for last several years.

True,the israeli search radars were able to detect it,however on that particular occasion at least,the fire control radars of the sam systems were unable to acquire it and in the end the israelis had to resort to using an attack helo to engage the drone visually with a laser guided missile after it had already crossed into israeli airspace.
Previously the israelis had had no apparent problems tracking,acquiring and shooting down conventional [non lo] drones that they considered were getting too close to israeli airspace.

 

[Messerschmitt]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669741239434981380

 

[TheImmortal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669741239434981380

There is reports that S-136 with a camera/seeker have been delivered to Russian forces.

The upgraded version is ment to hunt down radiation sources. Till now S-136 versions the Russian were using were GLNSS only guided used to strike fixed targets.

Lately we are seeing more and more targeting front lines and radiation sources.

 

[Stryker1982]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669741239434981380

Funny, I said just last week their wasn't much evidence unfortunately to suggest they were being used to target radars. Pleased that I am wrong.