Selex ES radar & other technology on JF-17?

[HRK]

can you post the full interview please

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[Blue Marlin]

....

cheers bud

 

[HRK]

A small example, in Kargil War, Pakistan decided to load one F-16 with a nuke, and immediately a call from Vajpayee went to Nawaz Sharief intimating if the aircraft takes to air, Indian nuclear strike will take place in 8 mins of lift off ......!

plz don't quote wrongly about the incident which is reported in open media ....

1- During Kargil Pakistan armed their Ghauri missiles not F-16s
2- Secondly that issue was brought up by Mr. Clinton during his meeting with PM Nawaz .... no such phone call is ever reported about which you are discussing

 

[Hellfire]

plz don't quote wrongly about the incidents which is reported in open media ....

1- During Kargil Pakistan armed their Ghauri missiles not F-16s
2- Secondly that issue was brought up by Mr. Clinton during his meeting with PM Nawaz .... no such phone call is ever reported about which you are discussing

Not quoting trash newspapers which gave the info in 2015! Read my older posts. I know what I am talking about. Obviously there was never any report of this call. Till last year the media was not even aware of this incident. I have quoted this thing earlier also with other members of forum which includes your professional members couple of years back. You had planned the employment in general area Kargil. Operating under threshold ......

 

[MastanKhan]

With due respect, I know what I have said, because I have discussed it with several on duty officers, on question of JH-7 & H-6K they really got annoyed, they will slap the person who will push those Obsolete Systems on them.

PN will go for more subs with JFT if long range multi role jet fighter is not available.

Hi,

That should tell you how illeterate and self centered these officers are---.

Just because the name is JH7B or H6---does not mean that they will come with obsolete electronic packages----or air frames.

The state of the art chinese package is available and why not Selex as an alternative. Composite material on the JH7B with all upgraded frame and a new more powerful engine---.

A J16 size aesa radar---all the warfare packages---plus the ability to utilize all the weaponery---either the air superiority or the strike option.

I go back to the F22 video again---the JH7B would be a perfect complimentary aircraft to the J31---.

Because any stealth aircraft of paf without any support from heavies is extremely vulnerable.

The problem here is not the aircraft---but the mindset of the air force---.

You have to have a certain personality to love the bomber and the heavy strike aircraft----nobody willingly wants to get transferred to the bombers when they have a choice of sleek and fast fighters---.

And as the bomber crew has been wiped out of the airfoce many a years ago---it will take a lots of courage to get one back.

 

[trident2010]

The basic goal of this war needs to be to---FIND WAYS TO MAKE THE FOREIGN MONEY RUN OUT OF INDIA---that must be the primary goal---.
Once the money goes away---it is not coming back---.

Just to make it clear, by taking out foreign money making centers in India you meant attacking all the multinational companies in Banglore, Pune, Hyderabad, Mumbai, Delhi etc? It was not done in all the past 3 wars and also it is not possible. Yes few heavy bombers could sneak in but they can only do limited damage. If say 5 bombers manage to reach B'lore than there are much more lucrative targets than few companies such as AF bases etc. In worst case scenarios missiles could be use to target civilian buildings.
Investing on bombers is as expensive as having an air craft carrier with CBT. You will need many squadrons of bombers and air superiority fighters to even cause minor damage to a fortified city. It is not used by PAF for a reason and they know it is not economically feasible.

 

[MastanKhan]

Just to make it clear, by taking out foreign money making centers in India you meant attacking all the multinational companies in Banglore, Pune, Hyderabad, Mumbai, Delhi etc? It was not done in all the past 3 wars and also it is not possible. Yes few heavy bombers could sneak in but they can only do limited damage. If say 5 bombers manage to reach B'lore than there are much more lucrative targets than few companies such as AF bases etc. In worst case scenarios missiles could be use to target civilian buildings.
Investing on bombers is as expensive as having an air craft carrier with CBT. You will need many squadrons of bombers and air superiority fighters to even cause minor damage to a fortified city. It is not used by PAF for a reason and they know it is not economically feasible.

Hi,

You misunderstood----only those places that have tactical importance.

" Fortified City "---what frigging La La land are you living in----. Even the U S has not fortified cities---.

Did you see those fat bellies protecting your air base---is that the level of fortification you are talking about.

 

[MastanKhan]

but do you really believe it to be the answer to the imbalance, the purpose of the Jf-17 is to give PAF a mid-tech capability they are unable to recieve with the bulk of mirages, F-7s etc, its not necessary the answer to the SU-30MKI, this is the thing i find a little worrying, the aircraft should have evolved to the point its capable of challenging and eliminating some of the threats across the border,
i see many positives in the JF-17 providing a good industrial base,and there is plenty of room to add additional gadgetry but the purpose of the machine is to protect pakistans skys, since the 80s theres never been a real answer to the imbalance, PAF is in need of a heavyweight kind of fighter, that has range and payload, and excellent strike ability, and its been 30+ years since we inducted an aircraft of this generation worthy of its time.

Hi,

Thank you for your post---that is also my biggest problem with the paf---the mindset---.

Instead of a fighting force---the air force is becoming a business entity----.

 

[trident2010]

Hi,

You misunderstood----only those places that have tactical importance.

" Fortified City "---what frigging La La land are you living in----. Even the U S has not fortified cities---.

Did you see those fat bellies protecting your air base---is that the level of fortification you are talking about.

Hi, fortified cities I meant with is places of tactical importance. They are well protected already. My point of view is why PAF would invest on something which it knows will not very effective and drain its resources even more. If they acquire say 2 squadrons of bomber fighters, India would beef up its air defenses of important areas even more and thus render it ineffective. I think this is one of the reasons PAF is not considering deep strike options. Standoff missiles are the best bet for this.

 

[thrilainmanila]

Hi,

Thank you for your post---that is also my biggest problem with the paf---the mindset---.

Instead of a fighting force---the air force is becoming a business entity----.

theres something going on under the table, it doesn't make sense for 30+ years now, not a single fighter worthy of its era, yet they seem fixated on an aircraft which first flew in 1974, the kickbacks they'll recieve from JF-17 deals with foreign countries will make them rich, they couldn't give a single hoot about the defence of there own country.

 

[Tank131]

@hellfire while your points are valid they are moot. The PAF will certainly use cruise missiles in any conflict (conventional unless faced with mortal threat). It is why they were developed. Their use may or may not trigger a nuclear response from India (which has a no first use policy). If India assumes that all missiles (and i mean non-ballistic in this case) will have nuke tips and it miscalculates and crosses the nuclear threshold first then it is going to cause the nuclear war, not pakistan and it will deal with the International fallout. Yes millions will die on all sides and could start a nuclear holocaust. That ambiguity is the entire point of Pakistans non-declarence of no first use. It must fit into India's calculus if they will mistakenly be the ones that cross the threshold. This is precisely why even a low scaled conflict and the risk of IAF strikes against Pakistan is so dangerous and as a result unlikely. The risk of mistake and nuclear conflagration is too high for both sides. It is all that has prevented war in the last 18 years. It is also the reason PAFs development of conventoonal strike is so important. Believe it or not, if India understands Pakistan is statisfied with a conventional deterent, it lowers the risk of nuclear war, but for that to work PAF must have a competent conventional strike deterent and Flankers (and JH-7B IF FLANKERS ARE UNAVAILABLE) alomg with small numbers of H-6K are so valuable.

As for India's ability to monitor Pakistan this we already know, but with PAFs larger number of AWACS and their ability to see deep into indian territory, Pakistan will also know about a strike long before it reaches Pakistan. Additionally IAF does not have the means to take out the H-6K from inside india if it sits deep in Pakistan. But H-6K does have the ability with Babur to hit radar and FOBs of IAF from deep inside Pakistan. Will it cripple IAF... No but woll limit its ability to perform actions in Pakistani airspace to a great degree if their strike packages need to return to airbases much further off.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Not quoting trash newspapers which gave the info in 2015! Read my older posts. I know what I am talking about. Obviously there was never any report of this call. Till last year the media was not even aware of this incident. I have quoted this thing earlier also with other members of forum which includes your professional members couple of years back. You had planned the employment in general area Kargil. Operating under threshold ......

Hi,

You misunderstood----only those places that have tactical importance.

" Fortified City "---what frigging La La land are you living in----. Even the U S has not fortified cities---.

Did you see those fat bellies protecting your air base---is that the level of fortification you are talking about.

@hellfire while your points are valid they are moot. The PAF will certainly use cruise missiles in any conflict (conventional unless faced with mortal threat). It is why they were developed. Their use may or may not trigger a nuclear response from India (which has a no first use policy). If India assumes that all missiles (and i mean non-ballistic in this case) will have nuke tips and it miscalculates and crosses the nuclear threshold first then it is going to cause the nuclear war, not pakistan and it will deal with the International fallout. Yes millions will die on all sides and could start a nuclear holocaust. That ambiguity is the entire point of Pakistans non-declarence of no first use. It must fit into India's calculus if they will mistakenly be the ones that cross the threshold. This is precisely why even a low scaled conflict and the risk of IAF strikes against Pakistan is so dangerous and as a result unlikely. The risk of mistake and nuclear conflagration is too high for both sides. It is all that has prevented war in the last 18 years. It is also the reason PAFs development of conventoonal strike is so important. Believe it or not, if India understands Pakistan is statisfied with a conventional deterent, it lowers the risk of nuclear war, but for that to work PAF must have a competent conventional strike deterent and Flankers (and JH-7B IF FLANKERS ARE UNAVAILABLE) alomg with small numbers of H-6K are so valuable.

As for India's ability to monitor Pakistan this we already know, but with PAFs larger number of AWACS and their ability to see deep into indian territory, Pakistan will also know about a strike long before it reaches Pakistan. Additionally IAF does not have the means to take out the H-6K from inside india if it sits deep in Pakistan. But H-6K does have the ability with Babur to hit radar and FOBs of IAF from deep inside Pakistan. Will it cripple IAF... No but woll limit its ability to perform actions in Pakistani airspace to a great degree if their strike packages need to return to airbases much further off.

Hi, fortified cities I meant with is places of tactical importance. They are well protected already. My point of view is why PAF would invest on something which it knows will not very effective and drain its resources even more. If they acquire say 2 squadrons of bomber fighters, India would beef up its air defenses of important areas even more and thus render it ineffective. I think this is one of the reasons PAF is not considering deep strike options. Standoff missiles are the best bet for this.

@hellfire while your points are valid they are moot. The PAF will certainly use cruise missiles in any conflict (conventional unless faced with mortal threat). It is why they were developed. Their use may or may not trigger a nuclear response from India (which has a no first use policy). If India assumes that all missiles (and i mean non-ballistic in this case) will have nuke tips and it miscalculates and crosses the nuclear threshold first then it is going to cause the nuclear war, not pakistan and it will deal with the International fallout. Yes millions will die on all sides and could start a nuclear holocaust. That ambiguity is the entire point of Pakistans non-declarence of no first use. It must fit into India's calculus if they will mistakenly be the ones that cross the threshold. This is precisely why even a low scaled conflict and the risk of IAF strikes against Pakistan is so dangerous and as a result unlikely. The risk of mistake and nuclear conflagration is too high for both sides. It is all that has prevented war in the last 18 years. It is also the reason PAFs development of conventoonal strike is so important. Believe it or not, if India understands Pakistan is statisfied with a conventional deterent, it lowers the risk of nuclear war, but for that to work PAF must have a competent conventional strike deterent and Flankers (and JH-7B IF FLANKERS ARE UNAVAILABLE) alomg with small numbers of H-6K are so valuable.

As for India's ability to monitor Pakistan this we already know, but with PAFs larger number of AWACS and their ability to see deep into indian territory, Pakistan will also know about a strike long before it reaches Pakistan. Additionally IAF does not have the means to take out the H-6K from inside india if it sits deep in Pakistan. But H-6K does have the ability with Babur to hit radar and FOBs of IAF from deep inside Pakistan. Will it cripple IAF... No but woll limit its ability to perform actions in Pakistani airspace to a great degree if their strike packages need to return to airbases much further off.

lets not get side tracked here

 

[Tank131]

I believe we will have this news quit soon (it's my assumption)



C-802 & CM-400 AKG are already tested & integrated with the platform (even with block-1), but PAF has not acquired CM-400 (I wonder what is the reason)

ACR Khalid Mahmood reply regarding same weapons integration
View attachment 292259

RAAD will be integrated with Block-1 & 2 along with H-4

View attachment 292261

secondly now JF-17 have a tag of battle proven platform as well ....

View attachment 292268
so in short any integration of additional weapon package from any other source will help in its marketing but their value regarding the increment of existing weapon package will be minimal .... my humble opinion ...

If we look at the point about JF-17 and cm-400akg we see that JF-17 can only carry one of these at a time due to weight and need for 2 fuel tanks in naval strike it could in turn carry 2 c-802A but in lieu of an actual dedicated strike platform 12 JF-17 (OF which 6 are in a2a and 6 in antiship config) dont carry the firepower to really threaten an IN CBG especially with the arming of upcoming barak 8 SAM. That being said a strike fighter like Flanker or JH-7B supported by JF-17 in a2a config does carry enough firepower to do just that.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

You have an inherent flaw in your logic. JF-17 has born into an era where His adversaries would be Mig29, Mirage 2000, SU-30, LCA all equipped with HMD and High bore off sight missiles. Hence many people including me wants a higher end JF-17 and drop the cost effective BS tag line at all. @Tank131 made a great analogy. JF-17 should not become another F-7PG after 10-15 years. F-7PG has become irrelevant in today's environment isnt it ?



That nuke sub would take another 12-15 year to materialize and the need of hour is to have SLCM capability in next 5 years.

So, and HMD and HOBS TVC missile will do it for JFT? Then it is coming, but you put Mig29, M2K, Su, and LCA all in one line?

How off topic are we currently?

 

[Tank131]

Very very off topic. My apologies to @Quwa for my role in that. In an effort to get back on topic... A few questions that hopefully seniors can answer...

1. What is the nose cone diameter of JF-17 and the necessary nose cone diameter for Raven ES-05?

2. Many posters keep mentionimg that the RD-93 does not have the power output to support an AESA Radar and an IRST. How much power output is required for these and what source has the info regarding insufficient power output been drawn from?

3. Will the RD-93MA address this issue or will a different engine be needed amd if so what are the options?

4. Why if, as we hear here, the RD-93 doesnt have the necessary power to support these subsystems, why is PAF sticking with it?

5. What ever happened to the IRST pod developed by AWC and what are the possibility of its installation into a dedicated chin hard point until block 3 with an possible integrated isrt can be acquired?